#11- How This High School Teacher Navigates Technology and Education [Zane O'Brien]

Chris Miller: We're officially live.
Zane O'Brien: All right, here we go.
Chris Miller: Welcome, welcome. This is nice. I got Zane across the table from me. How was your day?
Zane O'Brien: My day was pretty solid. Um, I just went to work, taught nothing out of the ordinary with that suit were pretty good until the end when I yelled, which I don't ever do.
Chris Miller: But what was the issue?
Zane O'Brien: I don't know. I, uh, was trying to go through directions and kids were understandably just kind of anxious for the end of the day. So it was like, right at the end of the day, I was a little grumpy. And so it doesn't happen very often, but it did today.
Chris Miller: Do you notice that at the end of the day, the kids get more ornary I don't know if I'd say.
Zane O'Brien: More ordinary, I'd say they're just kind of ready to be done with the day and they're, like, checked out. Um, and so that might either come with that might result in just, I don't know, just not following the proper procedures of the school day.
Chris Miller: So yeah.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, just like, I don't know, like, at 245, it's like it's done everything. There's no point anymore because the bell hits at three, three five. So when we're, like, wrapping up and so it's like 20 minutes, they're like, yeah. And I'm kind of checked out too, to be honest. And so we're all done at that point.
Chris Miller: I wonder why 305 and not three.
Zane O'Brien: It's like a busting thing at a school. So making sure that everything is scheduled, we start, like, five minutes later than the other schools and then get out five minutes later for a busing thing.
Chris Miller: And then whenever you're doing your lessons plans, or whenever you're doing your day, are you like, okay, um, I'm not going to plan this all the way out to 305. I'm basically planning that to 245 because I know people are going to be out of gas.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, usually that's how it goes, is like, the last 20 minutes of class is usually just like a wrap up. If that doesn't go well, it doesn't go well and we're good. We're moving on to the next day.
Speaker C: Yes.
Chris Miller: How long have you been a teacher?
Zane O'Brien: So this is year seven. I started right out of Ku. Um, it's crazy. That's been seven years, but all in the same place, teaching mostly the same stuff. So it's been good. And I'm still learning and growing, I feel like.
Chris Miller: What are you teaching?
Zane O'Brien: I teach mostly, uh, freshman biology. Um, I've taught that pretty much the whole time. Um, I've added a couple of elective classes. Um, I teach an Intro to Health Science class, which is kind of preparing kids that are interested in health care, wanting, um, to be a doctor or a nurse or anything kind of in that realm. Uh, so it kind of just goes through the day to day of what that looks like. And then I started this year teaching a microbiology class, which is just like an advanced biology, which has been interesting, to say the least.
Chris Miller: And you have that in high school, right?
Zane O'Brien: Which I think is a little bit strange, too. Um, we have a lot of different classes that we give kids, and that's one of them. It's something I didn't learn until I came to college and was taking, like, 400 level classes. And so it's really tough to take that and make it age appropriate for high schoolers.
Chris Miller: Yeah. Are your kids super smart? Is it like most AP classes?
Zane O'Brien: For my not really an, uh, AP class. It's just like an elective for kids that are interested in life sciences, that want to go to college and would hopefully help them if they ever take that class in the future.
Chris Miller: So one of the things that fascinates me most about teaching is that you have to get to the point to where you feel confident enough with the material. Were you really good at microbiology, or is there a lesson plan that you look at and essentially just copy it?
Zane O'Brien: Uh, microbiology was honestly the hardest class I ever took at Ku. Um, I can't remember the name of the professor. It was, like, fair. It was a hard but fair class. And, um, it was one that I passed it, but it was more of a struggle. And so having to teach microbiology to high schoolers is kind of tough. So I'm taking it and making it almost like an advanced biology class focused on microscopic living things. So I'm not making it, like, college level difficulty, for sure.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: So that's the parameters of microbiology. I never took microbiology. I've only heard of it.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: So what is microbiology?
Zane O'Brien: Microbiology is just the study of microorganisms things you can see with your naked eye, um, mostly like, bacteria, um, and focused on their structure function. They're different. Um, we'll focus a lot on infections and disease and stuff like that, too.
Chris Miller: For sure.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Is there a lot of virus talk in microbiology?
Zane O'Brien: We did talk about viruses, but viruses aren't really that interesting of things. The diseases that they cause are the more interesting part. Uh, um, because viruses are just really a ball of proteins that infects people and causes their DNA to not work as well as it should.
Chris Miller: What about the coronavirus?
Zane O'Brien: The coronavirus? Um, yeah, I mean, we talked about it a little bit and just, like, more the pathology of it and, um, the way that it transmits from one person to the next. And we looked at that a little bit.
Chris Miller: I feel like it's in grad school. One time, I was taking a hostage negotiation class, and it was from someone who had worked with the FBI, and he actually worked on this. Have you ever heard of the Unabomber?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: So he worked on the team, and he gets a lot of credit for being the guy to crack the case.
Zane O'Brien: Really?
Chris Miller: Yeah, to track down who it was. And I remember sitting in that class, and it was during a lot of this Israel Palestinian conflict, and we got to use all of those current events, uh, as lesson plans and taking them apart. And I'm just imagining with microbiology and the height of COVID you could go and be like, okay, well, everybody's talking about COVID Let's look at what particularly that actually is.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, we definitely did that, too. Like in my regular biology classes, I remember I did a lesson plan just around viruses in general once we started hearing about it in China. And then I remember when the hot spots were, like, Seattle and New York here, and the United States, like, that February before we went on our extended spring break for the whole school year. Um, we did a lot of studying with viruses. We actually did a project that I didn't know coronavirus was a thing. I didn't know this was coming. And I did a project where we looked at viruses, and the students designed their own virus to learn about DNA and, um, protein synthesis and stuff like that. So they designed their own virus and would describe how they would protect a community from their virus. And then literally the week after that, we started hearing all about COVID and all that stuff. So it was kind of weird timing. And it's really interesting.
Chris Miller: Somebody was in Wuhan doing that same.
Zane O'Brien: Activity probably then, but here we are.
Chris Miller: It just so happened to, uh, get beyond what they their classroom.
Zane O'Brien: Right, right.
Chris Miller: You know, get beyond their classroom now messing with everybody. Is there a recess at your place? It's high school, right?
Zane O'Brien: No, it's high school. There's no I mean, there's, like, a 30 minutes lunch break, and that's the the break for the day off campus? No, our school is, like, in the middle of a suburb, so there's really nowhere for kids to go, which is kind of a blessing, but also a curse at the same time, because there's just not much around there.
Chris Miller: How often are you eating cafeteria food?
Zane O'Brien: I've never once eaten cafeteria food since I have started teaching there, partially, uh, because of time constraints. Like, by the time I'd have to walk to the cafeteria and walk back to my classroom, it's like, oh, now I only have 15 minutes to snarf this thing down. And, um, it's not the cheapest, either. I don't know right off the top of my head what it costs, but.
Chris Miller: Would they cut you a deal?
Zane O'Brien: I can't remember. I don't remember if our teachers get a deal. I don't think they do. I think you just have to pay the same price the students pay.
Chris Miller: They're like, you all get paid so much.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Now you got to use it on the food.
Zane O'Brien: I just eat sandwiches pretty much every lunch.
Chris Miller: It's cheap. It's consistent. It's cheap. So you had mentioned that. What's the go to sandwich?
Zane O'Brien: I used to eat the processed bread and then I was like, yeah, I'm gaining some weight on this. So then I cut back to like, the natural whole grain stuff. Um, I mix it up. I'll go pastrami one day, and then I'll go, um, turkey the next day. Maybe like some pepper Jack cheese and cold beet. Just mixing it up. But I eat it because if you're.
Chris Miller: Doing a sandwich every day, you need the variety.
Zane O'Brien: You need some variety in there.
Chris Miller: You know what you should throw in your sandwiches?
Zane O'Brien: What?
Chris Miller: One day you should do, like you said, pastrami Kobe Jack, and then the next day you should do a different type of sandwich and do chips of hoy eminem cookies with ice cream.
Zane O'Brien: Ice cream sandwich?
Speaker C: Yeah, ice cream sandwich.
Chris Miller: And then you do a cookie sandwich, oreos and pizza sandwich. You could really expand your sandwich game.
Zane O'Brien: I could, but I've kind of been known as the guy that brings an eatsa sandwich every day in the teacher's lounge. So maybe, uh, I'll start making paninis. Maybe I'll start with the ice cream sandwiches and we'll just go all in the sandwich theme.
Chris Miller: You no longer have to neglect your sandwich identity, yet you still get to expand. One of the cool things about teaching is you are forming the mind of the youth.
Speaker C: Okay.
Chris Miller: Right. Do you feel pressure?
Zane O'Brien: Um, yes and no. Um, as far as, like, in biology, just teaching the simple biology facts, like, no, I don't feel any pressure about that. Because they're not going to remember, um, or that might not be their passion, or they're never going to be in a situation to apply that. We always get asked the question of, when am I ever going to need this? I'm sure you asked the same thing when you were in school. I asked the same thing?
Chris Miller: Totally.
Zane O'Brien: Honestly.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: You probably never going to. I think it's just more about the connections, um, and the relationships that we build with students. I was thinking about this today that, um, more than just the curriculum there's been the last couple of years, even since I've become a teacher, more of a push for, like, social emotional learning. Um, kind of like the team building type of things. Just teaching students how to be a productive member within their class and then just be able to handle any strange situation that pops up. Because you and I, we didn't graduate that long ago, like, within the last decade. Um, but it's crazy how different things have become in just ten years. Students, they all have a device. They all, um, are flooded with information every single day. I had a student that was like an honor student, and I was in a conversation with her and we were talking about social media, and she said that she spends like, 6 hours a day on TikTok. And that was like, during the school days. And I was like, what about during the summer? Like, when you have time off? She's like, I spent like, eight to 12 hours a day on TikTok or Snapchat or any of these the popular ones with them. So it's like, how do we help kids navigate the world that they're going to be in? And said, the world that we were in. Um, I heard someone say that once. I don't remember where that came from. But trying to help prepare them for what they're going to be living in than what we are currently. So there's pressure for that. Um, I would say, um, big stakes, right? There is big stakes. And some kids I look at some of the kids that I have in my classes that their connectedness with people is through a phone or through a device. Um, and that's not me, like, trying to be an old man, like, shaking my cane at kids or whatever. But that's just the reality of it. Um, and we just have to find ways to properly handle that. And there are stakes for that, for sure.
Chris Miller: What's your stance on devices in the classroom? How do you navigate that?
Zane O'Brien: I'm pretty laid back on it, honestly. Um, a lot of teachers that I have in the school that I have are big against cell phones. And that seems like the biggest issue that they run into is kids on their devices. Um, I really don't make it that big of a deal. And it seems like kids don't make it that big of a deal either. Um, it just seems like something I don't want to police. Um, obviously there are situations where if kids are taking a picture of another kid, like, we can't have that. But if they pull out their phone for a moment, it's like, I'm not freaking out about it. Right. Um, but as long as the students know that we are in an environment that's safe for learning and that these distractions, um, as long as they're not overtaking the learning environment, then I'm not too upset about it. All of our students have a laptop anyway, and we use those super often, so it's not a huge deal to me.
Chris Miller: Whenever you were in high school, did you hide texts under your table?
Zane O'Brien: Not really, no.
Speaker C: Um.
Zane O'Brien: I remember getting, like, a smartphone my senior year. Um, I got the iPhone three, I think is what it was, which at this point is so obsolete. It's crazy. But no, I don't remember I don't remember texting kids below the desk and it didn't seem like that big of a deal.
Chris Miller: Did you have to hide it, though? Did they say no phones in class.
Zane O'Brien: Whenever you I think it was like phones in the lockers put away, like, totally hidden. But I also went to a really small school and everyone knew everyone. So it was like, I'm not going to be texting a kid in a different class because we're all in the same class right now anyway, so I don't know.
Chris Miller: So small school.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: What was the what was the the growing up process like for you? I mean, we all have the same growing up process biologically, right?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: But, uh, as far as what was the town like that you grew up in? I know you said small town and small school. I imagine, like you said, everybody knows everybody. Farm. No farm.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: I grew up, like, the closest town was 12 miles away, so we grew up, like, on a farm, like, in the middle of a cornfield. And all my friends, I mean, were kids I grew up with since we were in preschool. And just no one moves because it's just a farming community. Um, it was in the middle of nowhere. Um, the school I went to was 70 people, but it was everyone from the county oh, my came in to go, uh, to school. The town was 500 people, so super tiny.
Chris Miller: Wow.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Did a lot of your friends leave.
Zane O'Brien: Town whenever most of them are still around? Like, in Kansas at least, or in roughly that same area? Um, pretty much everyone either went to K State or community college. I was, like, the only one that went to Ku. Um, most people are still in the general area.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: What was your favorite thing about growing up?
Zane O'Brien: Oh, man. Um, I think the group of people I grew up with, I still have connections with them. And so I felt like it was really tight knit, um, living in that area. Every Labor Day, we have a fancy football draft with the same people. And we did it when we were freshmen in high school. And we're all still connected with each other. We all still talk to each other, and every time we get together, it's just like old times. So I would say probably that just that close knit community that I had growing up.
Chris Miller: And I'm trying to remember siblings.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: I have a younger brother. Um, and then I have a half brother and half sister.
Chris Miller: Okay.
Zane O'Brien: Um, so, yeah, my younger brother, he's, um, two years younger than I am. And we're best of friends. I mean, we're super close with each other. Uh, we try to spend as much time as we can with each other.
Chris Miller: And you did sports growing up, right? Yeah, soccer, basketball, football.
Zane O'Brien: I did football and basketball. I actually coach football now, um, which is a lot of fun. We just finished our season. We won one game out of seven. Um, we actually beat our rivals, so that was huge. The one win the one win was against the rival. So that's a good way to end the season. Right.
Chris Miller: Was that the last game?
Zane O'Brien: It was the second to last game, and then the last game, we got totally blown out. But we don't talk too much, you can't have too much. Right, right. We had to keep it down a peg. We had to let's be honest, one.
Chris Miller: In seven sounds much better than eight.
Zane O'Brien: That's true. I thought that's the direction we were heading, to be completely honest. But we, uh, pulled one out.
Chris Miller: And all the respect to your football team, I imagine they are great kids. But was there a moment where you said you were watching the game, you were watching them practice, and you were thinking, we're not winning the league?
Zane O'Brien: Um, I would say it was probably like our third game. We had a long road trip, and we're out there playing, and it's like, during warm ups, I'm like, the energy here is low. Nothing like and then we go out and get blown out and like, yeah, this is you felt we're in for and for a long one. So mhm yeah, there's I was talking.
Chris Miller: To a baseball coach, and he is working with a youth program right now, and he said that they got whooped all, uh, season.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: And I asked him a similar question, and he was like, yeah. There was a moment where I realized that I wasn't going to be giving them baseball knowledge. I was going to be giving them life knowledge.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, that's kind of the direction I took it, too, was just like, I was on the same in the same shoes as they were, uh, getting beat. But I've also been on the other end of that, where we were winning a lot. Um, so I told them, like, that's kind of how it goes. You just kind of have to take your lumps at this point and then just strive to get better with it. And yeah, I kind of like that becomes a place from teaching them fundamentals and the skills around the sport to actually teach them the more life lessons. That's a good outlook, for sure.
Chris Miller: Do you find yourself thinking about that whenever you're coaching this football team?
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, I coach 7th graders. So since it's the first sport they play, like, for school sports, um, I'm trying to give them as good of an experience as they can so that they are wanting to continue with extracurricular activities, whether it's athletics, whether it's theater, art, band, whatever it is. Um, I want them to at least have a good initial experience because research shows, like, the kids that are involved in those, whether it's sports or other extracurricular activities, they just are more successful, um, whether it's in high school and beyond. Um, so there's a little bit of pressure in that. Honestly, I want to give them a good experience. We want to be able to have fun and do well. But at the same time, I want them to be able to be coached in a different way that they are never used to. Um, but also understand that and take good life lessons away from that because I'm sure you had coaches when you played at sports that just would scream and yell and almost treat it too seriously. I like trying to find, uh, the balance between taking it seriously but also having fun and growing and learning.
Chris Miller: Right. And I had this one coach, I was telling somebody about this earlier since it's so cold outside right now, it made me think of them. We would be playing and he would schedule practice and it would be so cold and he would tell all of us there's no such thing as bad weather, there's only bad clothing.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: And like, uh, thinking about it, it's like, yeah, whenever you have a North Face or Eddie Bauer and you got the nice Nike compression pants, being warm is much easier. But I mean, back in the day, buying those Nike sliders, buying all that stuff was so expensive. I didn't have that. So seeing coaches treat it more like military enlisted, non commissioned officers, they're training, it's like, whoa man, pump, um, the brakes. But talking about getting involved with extracurriculars super important and you are kind of in the middle of a really tough time right now because the girl who's spending 6 hours on TikTok probably doesn't want to spend, probably doesn't want to take an hour of that to go do dance or sports. Uh, so I imagine you have to be really good at your job or else enticing TikTok is like, hey, I can teach you some sports stuff.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, it's competing for sure. M. I guess it's just trying to find ways to have kids kind of meet you in the middle. Um I don't know. Um yeah, it's interesting for sure. It's just a different climate, it's a different landscape.
Chris Miller: What's a funny I asked somebody else this and I'm always curious because I never played pro ball, I never played college ball, but I loved it. And there, uh, was some moments where I was the best kid on the team and some moments where I remember I joined a, uh, regional competitive team and I barely made the cut. They put me on the second string, they didn't even put me in the position I played. They put me on the back line defense. This was soccer and I wasn't the best person on the team. But looking back, there are a lot of different moments and I do have a favorite sports moment. What is your favorite sports moment?
Zane O'Brien: Oh man. Um, see, when I was growing up, I hit my growth spurt super early and so I was like six foot two in middle school and so I was like towering over everyone. I thought I was going to be seven foot tall. I thought I was going to be just a monster. And then everyone else just slowly, over the years started to catch up with me. Um, but as far as like, sports stories go, I'm trying to think like, the things that stick out to me aren't the things that, like, happened during games. It's just the things that kind of happened around that. Um, when we would practice basketball, our basketball practice would start a couple of hours after school. So we'd have like 2 hours of downtime. And we invented this game called car tag. Um, where being in a small town, like 500 people, so really tiny town, like a mile and a half across, we play this game where we had two cars. And there would be one team in one car, one team in another car. And it was basically hide and seek. So one car would just go they had to stay in the city limit. So you go drive and park somewhere to try to hide your car. And the other car would drive around to look for them, um, until you found them. And then that was the game. Which sounds really dumb, but it was super fun because we'd get creative and we would try to go hide in different places. Um, so the memory that I have with that is there was one day, it was kind of snowy and so it was kind of wet out. It was like that weird slush. And my friends convinced me that the other team was like, parked behind the school. So it's like, okay, we'll drive back there. So I drove her around the back of the school. They weren't there, but my car got stuck in the schoolyard. And I started freaking out because I was like, oh, crap, I'm going to tear up this schoolyard. I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for that. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. And so my friends jump out and they start pushing to get me out of the mud. And so I'm spinning my tires and then just throw a bunch of mud on them. And so they're covered in mud. And I peel out of there and just kind of left them, which was not very good of me, but was.
Chris Miller: Funny at the time.
Zane O'Brien: It was funny at the time. I have other friends that were just laughing at me. And they're covered in mud. I don't want them to get mud in my car. And, um, I don't know if the teachers knew about it, but the next day at school, there was like these little jokes around mud and getting cars stuck. And so I think they knew, but I didn't get in trouble for it. They never said a teacher was like I think it was an economics class. And he was giving some example about supply and demand. His example involved mud flaps. The next day, the day after I got stuck in the mud. And there was another teacher I can't remember talking about, gave us a story about his car getting stuck or something.
Chris Miller: So oh, man.
Zane O'Brien: It's like they somehow knew about it.
Chris Miller: Do you remember if when you were hearing that example were your ears burning and were you thinking, oh my gosh, they know.
Zane O'Brien: Like there was like two of my friends that were in my car during this and I looked across the room at them and they're like, yeah, they're calling you out.
Chris Miller: Did you get in a lot of trouble as a kid?
Zane O'Brien: No, that's probably why I was like freaking out because I was kind of a buy the book, like, follow the rules type of kid.
Speaker C: Mhm.
Zane O'Brien: So yeah, I never really got in trouble. My brother did. My brother was the one that always got in trouble.
Chris Miller: And he's younger than you, he's like.
Zane O'Brien: Two years younger than me. And oftentimes that was probably my fault of getting him into trouble.
Chris Miller: But it never got pushed against you. I had an older brother, or I have an older brother, and watching him sometimes he would get in trouble and that was kind of like my compass. I was like, okay, maybe you don't do that. Yeah, but for you it's your younger brother.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: So I imagine there may have been like maybe, uh, I'll shake things up.
Zane O'Brien: It was kind of like Egg and Emmanuel type of thing. Yeah, well, wisdom comes from seeing other people's mistakes, I guess, and learning from that.
Chris Miller: It does. The most wise thing in high school is to fit in, or middle school especially. Everybody just wants to fit in. That seems to be like the smartest move. You don't want to stand out, you want to have the big group of friends. But for you, you're in middle school and you're six too. What was it like being the tall guy?
Zane O'Brien: I don't know, it was not weird or anything like that. It was just like, yeah, I'm the tall guy in school and I'm going to continue to be tall forever. But then no, uh, it didn't happen.
Chris Miller: It didn't happen because it's like an identity.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, it really was. It was weird. I think I have an email that has the word tall in it, like from my middle school email address because I was just like way taller than everyone.
Chris Miller: What do you think it was? The email?
Zane O'Brien: I think it was just tall and then my name I think it was like Tall O'Brien at Hotmail or whatever it was. I'm pretty sure.
Chris Miller: I love those middle school emails. Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: You know, like the instant messenger. Did you do, did you do the windows? What was it? AOL Instant Messenger. Oh, that was, that was the thing.
Chris Miller: It was the thing because we graduated when did you graduate high school?
Zane O'Brien: 2012.
Chris Miller: Yeah, I graduated 13. So like we graduated around the same time. We had the same tech. I came up in northeast Oklahoma, so they were a bit beyond my town. There was farms, but for the most part we would go to a cornfield every now and then and that would be on a farm or like a pumpkin farm, but. Never grew up around a farm. Did you feel a, uh, longing for the big city?
Zane O'Brien: It's kind of weird. So my parents were divorced and so my step dad is the farmer, so we kind of married into that. And so I didn't have the biggest interest in farming. Um, and also we don't have livestock or anything like that. So it was all corn, soybeans and so the seasons that they were busy, I was always in school or doing football or basketball or any sports. And so I wasn't really available to help around the farm. So I guess I didn't really long for the big city per se. But I also don't consider myself like that. Typical farm boy.
Chris Miller: Right.
Zane O'Brien: If that makes sense. Um, I feel like Lawrence is a town that's kind of a happy medium. It's not a huge town, but it has everything you need. And then Kansas City is just a quick drive away and I don't know, I've never really lived in a big city. I'm not sure what it would even be like, to be honest.
Chris Miller: It's so overwhelming. Kansas City. For me, going downtown, uh, it's cool to see everything, but for me, the town I grew up in was a little bit bigger than Lawrence population wise. But as far as area wise, it doesn't seem to be much different. And I like that happy medium. I don't want it to be super big, I don't want it to be super small. But knowing that I can just see people around here, not have to go anywhere else, is nice.
Zane O'Brien: I wonder what it would be like to live in like, New York or Chicago, where there's people that live above and below you and then you pretty much have to walk everywhere or get rides everywhere.
Chris Miller: How far away did you move to university?
Zane O'Brien: So it was like an hour an hour away? Um, it was pretty close. Like, I was familiar with Lawrence before I came to school here. I'd been there tons of times.
Chris Miller: Jayhawks family?
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, my whole family was Jayhawks for generations. I'm the first one in my immediate family that went to Ku, but, um, my brother came here for a couple of years afterwards and, um, yeah, it was the first one that came here.
Chris Miller: Nice.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Did the K State Ku rivalry take place in your house at all?
Zane O'Brien: Um, not seriously, no. My stepdad was kind of a K State fan, but then after he married my mom, he kind of turned him to a Ku fan.
Speaker C: Mhm.
Zane O'Brien: Um, as we watched all the basketball games and football games and all that stuff.
Chris Miller: Were you homesick moving an hour away?
Zane O'Brien: I really was, yeah. Um, it was actually kind of a rough first year. Um, I was pretty isolated. I felt like, um, I'm a pretty introverted person in the first place, so I mostly would just kind of spend time by myself in my apartment and, um, my studies were pretty good. My freshman year was my best grades, for sure.
Chris Miller: Wow, that's rare.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah. In high school, I didn't really have to study that much. Um, but when I went to college, it was like, I'm going to make the best of this. Um, I got, like, straight A's my first year, um, which was good. Um, but yeah, I was very isolated. Um, I would mostly go home on the weekends to spend time with my family. Um, but yeah, I was pretty homesick for parts of it, for sure.
Chris Miller: Did you ever have a long distance relationship with a girl back home?
Zane O'Brien: No, actually, Lindsay, my wife, is the only girl I ever dated.
Speaker C: Wow.
Zane O'Brien: Uh, yeah, I didn't really date. I was just kind of a single guy just going through school and doing my best with that.
Chris Miller: I mean, middle school, you had to have had some relationships.
Zane O'Brien: I was just a tall, gangly, goofy kid.
Chris Miller: You're the tallest guy.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: I was goofy, though.
Chris Miller: Uh, so it's funny because goofy being goofy, do you identify as goofy?
Zane O'Brien: A little bit, yeah. Kind of socially awkward sometimes.
Chris Miller: Because initially, like, goofiness to me, whenever somebody called me goofy for a while, I didn't like it. I was like, what the heck? But as I've grown older and you get into the business world and you meet all these different people, you just meet people and you're like, I wish you were a bit more goofy. And that idea of, I wish you were a bit more quirky, I wish there was something more exciting, uh, becomes.
Zane O'Brien: Almost a term of endearment.
Chris Miller: Yeah, right? It does. And now we've gotten to the point to where we see these people who their goofiness is what really elevates them. Right. Like, you and I, we have we're still exploring this, but a similar taste of humor to some degree, because we like different individuals. And whenever you think of, like, Nathan Fielder, very goofy, right to the nth degree.
Zane O'Brien: Like, socially awkward to the point where it is uncomfortable to watch.
Chris Miller: Uncomfortable to watch. And he has put so much time in there. And I'm sure at some point it's a big, like, detriment in his mind. Like, dang it, why can't I be super smooth and super initially, uh, congenial with everybody, but he uses it as a superpower. Uh, and I've tried my best to lean into the goofy side of the house, uh, without overthinking it, but I'm imagining the tall, goofy guy. I'm sure you had some good one liners you have to survive in middle school.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, I have kind of a dry sense of humor sometimes, too. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I could be pretty witty. Um, sometimes I feel like I have to be careful, too. So I don't come across as just saying something that could, you know, make me look like a jerk.
Chris Miller: But you have to take the risk.
Zane O'Brien: For the bit right, right. And I feel like I'm aware of when someone could handle a little jab here and there, you know?
Chris Miller: Yes. And that's the beauty is there's the lines, there's a lot that happens in between them. But if there's someone who's able to go outside the lines yet do it in a manner in which it makes people laugh, but not upset people.
Zane O'Brien: Right.
Chris Miller: That's the science. Um, but you mentioned that Lindsay was your first girlfriend. What was that process like of getting to know her and, uh, thinking to yourself, hey, this is going to be my first girlfriend.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: Um, so our story is kind of a typical millennial type of thing. We just met online. Um, like a lot of people are now, which at first it seemed like when online dating was a big thing, first coming up, it seemed kind of dangerous. Like you don't know who this person is. Mhm on the other side. Um, now it seems like it's not, I don't want to say the word taboo, but, um, there's not as much of a stigma around it as there was. So, um, at that point in time I was like, I'm going to just try it and do the online dating thing. And Lindsey and I, we connected. Um, we didn't really beat around the bush with things. I guess we just decided to meet with each other and um, we hit it off pretty well. We knew we had some similarities, um, as far as like, faith. Um, and family is a pretty big priority for us. Um, so we kind of were able to hit it off just around those, um, really big commonalities between the two of us. And then, um, once you get to know Lindsay, she's also a pretty goofy person. Um, her sense of humor, it meshed really well with mine. And we also pretty early on realized that we are two totally different people. And we found a way to really play that to our strength. Um, you hear people discussing who they want to find for their, um, partner. Um, they want someone that's the same as them. Um, but then they don't necessarily realize what that might come with. Um, it might work for people, it might not. Uh, for Lindsey and I, we were able to make it work really well. She's very extroverted and I play off that strength. But I'm very introverted and pretty laid back and she plays off that strength too. So yeah, we just felt like we worked very well together and we still do.
Chris Miller: With the, uh, online dating piece. Was there ever a moment where you thought she was fake and not real?
Speaker C: Yes.
Zane O'Brien: I kept seeing her profile pop up on Match and I was like, because she's really into photography and takes really good pictures. I was like, that looks more than just a selfie, right? And she's in a nice dress or whatever. I could still remember the picture that she used. I was like, I'm not sure if that's a real person, but I'm going to shoot my shot. And, uh, it worked. I made it.
Chris Miller: At some point, you're like, okay, this may be a bot.
Zane O'Brien: Right. But, uh, I didn't have any girlfriends in the first place, so who knows? Have you ever seen that movie her?
Chris Miller: Yes.
Zane O'Brien: With Joaquin Phoenix and he falls.
Chris Miller: One of my favorite movies.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: Who knows? Maybe that was the path I was going down.
Chris Miller: And Scarlett Johansson played the voice, right. And watching that I watched that on the airplane. No, actually, I was in the hotel whenever I was traveling. And I was blown away because my friend kept saying, you need to watch her. You need to watch her. And I finally did it. And I was like, whoa. And I do think that looking into artificial intelligence and this idea of artificial intelligence, teaching artificial intelligence and getting to the point to where they could recreate people like that, I think it's definitely possible.
Zane O'Brien: It's crazy.
Chris Miller: Yeah, super crazy. You mentioned as you get to know Lindsay, she will have or she has a pretty goofy sense of humor. Do you remember one of the first times to where you all tapped into that maybe the second time hanging out or the third time hanging out?
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, the first thing I realized was that her speaking voice was different. Um, when she got more comfortable around me, her voice was more like, high pitched. Like when you're talking to someone on the phone, like you're trying to be polite. And then I started to notice that was starting to go away and her actual real voice was coming out. And I was probably the same way. I probably spoke with them more or congenial polite type of voice or whatever.
Chris Miller: Totally.
Zane O'Brien: Um, okay, here's the thing. I, um, remember on our third date so on our second date, she invited me to go watch her mom's band perform. Her mom plays in a bluegrass band. And so this is like before our second day.
Chris Miller: She's like, that's intimidating.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: She's like, do you want to go watch my mom's band perform? And I'm like, no, I don't like, in my mind. But I'm like, yeah, sure. I'll go. I'll go meet you. And so we're there sitting at a table, watching her mom's bluegrass band perform. I basically met all of her family at that point now because they're all there watching. And we're just kind of sitting there listening. And she grabs a package of sugar and she throws it in front of me and says, you dropped your name tag and then sugar on there. It's like a pickup line. I was like, it took me a minute to figure out, what are you talking about? She's like, oh, that's a pickup line. I was like, okay, you're pretty funny. Um, that was probably the first time where she came out her shell a little bit, and you're like, okay, yeah, that's funny. And I probably had nothing funny to follow that up with, but you were probably the same thing back. I probably grabbed another sugar packet and threw it down and said, you dropped your name tag, too. And it wasn't funny.
Chris Miller: But were you psyching yourself out? Because this, uh, is some of the first official dates that you're going on.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: I felt like with Lindsay, when we were dating, we didn't do the typical playing game type of thing, like, oh, I got to wait for this long before I can go see her again, or whatever. So I think we both felt super comfortable. Um, and I just really wasn't trying to put pressure on myself. So, um, it was a really good way to get to know each other. And I don't know if I'd recommend people to go meet someone's family on the third date, unless if you're just that comfortable with it. But it was good. I endeared myself to her family then.
Chris Miller: Yeah. And you got to see because bluegrass is important, too, for music. And that bluegrass band, it's what they do, right. Like, families do different things and they value different things. And I think that's one of the coolest things is seeing family bands.
Zane O'Brien: It's something that I wasn't used to until I met Lindsay. So she has her family band now with her mom, and so Lindsay sings and plays piano in a second band with her mom. So it's interesting. My family wasn't super musical growing up.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: Like, we would sing around the house and stuff, like songs that we would hear on the radio, but none of us really seriously played instruments or anything like that, which I kind of looking back at. It like every one of my family is like, oh, I wish we learned how to play guitar or play piano or things like that. I didn't learn to play until later on. Um, I just kind of started to teach myself how to play guitar when I was 16. Um, but, yeah, my family wasn't super m musical. So just having a peek into her family and just their kind of dynamic with that was really interesting early on.
Chris Miller: Yeah. I remember whenever I was dating Annie, we had been dating for about a month and a half, which at the time, her family was in Wisconsin. My family is in Oklahoma. We're doing grad school in North Carolina. So in order to meet the family, either you have to make a trip or they're making a trip to you. And Annie and I were getting breakfast one day and she said, hey, my family is going to be coming into town in a week. I would love for you to meet them. And I remember feeling, like, taking a big gulp, right, and thinking, oh, boy, and feeling anxious because that first time where you meet them. And it's funny. I went with her parents to a steakhouse, and we were sitting down and talking, and it was that you just imagine the, uh, nerves, and you're critical about what you're saying, and we put so much into it. Uh, I'm really curious as to what it's going to be like when you're on the other side of that. If I ever have a kid one day, and the kid gets to that point to where they're dating, and I meet their significant other for the first time, what's even going on through your head? I imagine whenever you're in that situation, you're probably super nervous, too, right?
Zane O'Brien: It's probably, uh, equal, I would imagine.
Chris Miller: Uh, it's all the uncertainty, and.
Speaker C: I.
Chris Miller: Say all that just to say I can only imagine how you felt like, all right, I'm going to go to the bluegrass. I'm going to go watch it, to.
Zane O'Brien: Be honest, now that I think about it. And after you say that, it was actually probably easier that way because there was, like, an activity that we were doing instead of just, like, sitting down at a steak dinner and having to look them in the eye and, um, be a little unnatural. Maybe it was actually easier the way that it happened with us because it.
Chris Miller: Removes the focus from you all to them, and then you get to look at it together.
Zane O'Brien: Right.
Chris Miller: Now, uh, Annie and I have gotten to know you and Lindsey a little bit, and it's so cool to see, like, young couples. We're doing our thing. What is something that you believe you and Lindsay are really good at together, as far as, like, if you were on Survivor or The Amazing Race and they said, do this thing, is there an activity in particular that you think you all would blow the competition away at?
Zane O'Brien: Oh, man, that's a good question.
Speaker C: Um.
Zane O'Brien: Like, trying to think of something woody, like diffusing a bomb, but we've never had to do that. Um, that's not one you want to have to try to practice, right?
Speaker C: Yeah. Ah.
Zane O'Brien: Um I don't know. That's a really good question. Um I don't know.
Chris Miller: It's tough. One of the things that Annie and I can get pretty good at is one would be solving riddles.
Speaker C: Okay.
Chris Miller: I think that have you ever seen The Hobbit or it's The Hobbit, right, where he meets with Gollum and he.
Zane O'Brien: Has to answer the riddles.
Chris Miller: I think we'd be decent at that. We'd probably be very scared. Another thing would be she's really good with rollercoasters. I don't like them, though.
Speaker C: Okay.
Chris Miller: So if we had to do some Amazing Race thing and it was ride this huge thing, she'd be doing that, and then I'd be down there solving the clue.
Zane O'Brien: There you go. And you win Amazing Race.
Chris Miller: And we would win, and we'd get a million dollars.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: And with that, a million dollars, we'd probably invest in a s and p 500 index fund and get hopefully 4% or not 4%, say like 7%. And that's 70 grand per year. And then I'd no longer look for a job.
Zane O'Brien: Do that high dividend fund.
Chris Miller: Yeah, do the high dividend. Build a dividend for June. What's your dream job?
Zane O'Brien: I really do think it's teaching. Um, I enjoy it and I have a hard time seeing myself leave. Um I don't know. Sometimes I do keep my eyes open for other things. Um, it would always be within education of some kind. Um, whether it is in the classroom or, um, within curriculum and instruction or instructional design or something where I'm educating people, um, whether it's in that traditional sense or not. I, um, also do think it would be interesting to help educators become better educators, whether it's like instructional coaching or teacher, um, preparation programs or things like that. So, yeah, something within education, for sure.
Chris Miller: Um, would you ever want to be a principal?
Zane O'Brien: No, I don't have much of an interest in being an administrator, mostly. Um, the reason is and I always get told the principles of things that they deal with are kind of like the worst side of teaching. Like, disciplined behaviors and having to deal with parents and, um, more of the I don't want to say legal work, but like, the paperwork and that kind of stuff. So I would say probably not. Um, if I was ever in administration, it would be more within the curriculum and instruction side, which would more impact what happens in the actual classroom.
Chris Miller: You like the classroom?
Speaker C: Yes.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, I like the learning process, for sure.
Chris Miller: But your first few years as a teacher, did you feel how about the first day as a teacher? What's that like?
Zane O'Brien: So I think back to my student teaching when I kind of just showed up in the classroom and it was already an established room with the teacher that had all of her rules and norms and everything kind of set. And there was one day where, um, she kind of just threw me in. And like, the first week, I just kind of sat and watched and kind of got to know the kids and stuff. And then she started this activity. I, uh, remember they were, like, doing exercise and trying to predict how their heart rates are going to go up and down. Um, it's kind of a science experiment. Um, and she started the activity and then just left school for the day. And so I'm like, looking around and I'm like, okay, I guess I'm running the show the rest of the way. And it was really good. It was like being thrown into the deep end, but it was very beneficial. I honestly don't remember remember my first actual full day teaching. Um, I just remember it being a lot of, like, the last day of school where nothing serious actually happens. The first day of school is also kind of like that, where it's more just kids going from class to class, figuring out learning who their teacher is and stuff like that. So that wasn't too big of an issue.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: I feel like going from student teacher to where you're working with somebody who's built norms, built structure, and then you're fitting that and then you go and establish your own. I did grad student teaching, which is a little bit similar in the idea of I worked with the professor, so I basically worked with her structure. Yet that idea of having a classroom to myself and building the course content and decorating it, uh, and building a culture, it's daunting to me.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, it was weird. I actually remember the couple of days leading up to when I was first going to start the school year. And for some reason, in my head, I was more worried about what my classroom was going to look like than anything. Which is weird because it's a science room and there's cabinets all along the wall for science equipment. So there's not really room to hang posters and do a bolts import and stuff. But I was worried, like, what posters am I going to hang up?
Chris Miller: Like the periodic table.
Zane O'Brien: Right. And so I remember worrying about that. And then one of the other teachers was like, don't worry too much about that. That's not a huge deal. Like, if that's the thing you're worried about, then you're, um, probably in a good spot. Worry more about the human being.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: The human piece of establishing a connection between the students and the parents and stuff like that. Um, I've kind of learned that to brush off those other things. But it is daunting for sure.
Chris Miller: What's it like working with parents.
Zane O'Brien: I've had a pretty good relationship with parents. I've never really had anything that I would categorize as just being a totally negative reaction, which is good. I'm really pleased with that. Um, I'm pretty proactive as far as communication goes. Um, and it's weird, like, how plugged in parents are now. They'll be getting emails all day long about students grades and newsletters and stuff like that. So they're more in the know than they ever have been. And I think that probably helps with communication. And they're not caught by surprises often. Um, typically those parents that have a big issue with something going on in the school that gets directed to like, administration and so I don't have to deal with that too much. I, um, have heard horror stories from other teachers, but, um, just about parents just not being pleasant and I don't know, I haven't ever had to deal with that, which is good.
Chris Miller: Have you had to say, go to the principal's office?
Zane O'Brien: Yes. Um, very rarely. But I usually walk a kid down to the principal's office. So I've, um, only had to do that a couple of times. Not very often. Usually just me having a conversation one on one with the kid and explaining where I'm coming from, and they usually are able to turn it around. However, one time I had a kid and they could disrespect me and whatever, I'm, like, pretty even keel all the time, but he was being pretty disrespectful to a parrot that was trying to help him. And I kind of got on him and send him out into the hallway. When I walked out into the hallway, he was standing with his face in the corner. I don't know if your parents ever, like, when you got in trouble, like, go stand in the corner. That's what my mom always did. Um, but he was, like, standing in the corner like he was in trouble. I was like, all right, that's punishment enough. And just had him come back into the classroom.
Chris Miller: Yeah. You're like, okay.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, it's like okay. You message loud and clear.
Chris Miller: You understand the situation. Whenever you walk a kid to the principal's office, you leave the whole class, though.
Speaker C: Uh.
Zane O'Brien: If it's a good group of kids and I'm comfortable with leaving them.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: And I usually do have classes that are comfortable enough that I could leave them on their own, and it's usually fine. I just hope the principal doesn't walk in at that point.
Chris Miller: And let's be honest, if you have to walk a kid to the principal's office, more than likely the rest of the class is relieved that kid's being.
Speaker C: Walked to the principal's office.
Zane O'Brien: Usually that's the case. Yeah, usually I'm pretty good about, like, if a, uh, kid is being disruptive, I'll stop what I'm doing, like, mid sentence even, and just kind of, like, look at them. And the other kids are like, hey, he's looking at you. Because the vast majority of kids, whether they want to admit it or not, they want to be there, they want to do well, and they're trying to learn. Um, and they don't allow or really want other people to infringe on that.
Chris Miller: Yeah. Right. It's upsetting whenever you go to school, and there's always that same person. And a lot of the times, you add the context, and that troublemaker is wanting attention right. And doing attention seeking behavior. But unfortunately, that affects everybody. There what's been here. This is a big one. It's one of those hard to think about, but proudest moment as a teacher.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah. It was kind of a small thing last year. Last year was the first year that I taught anything that wasn't for freshman class. Like, I started to have upper classmen. Um, and some of them were kids that I had had previously. I just remember, like, the first day when I had these kids that I taught in their freshman year come back for this class as a senior, and they just seemed really excited to be back in my classroom. And they're like, I'm happy that I'm back here, Mr. O'Brien. I was like, okay, that's cool. That's pretty cool that they were looking forward to coming back to my classroom and so not really an award or anything like that, but just it was a lot of good validation and, um, that was really nice. Yeah, I'd say that was probably the moment I was the proudest.
Chris Miller: Yeah. Because you show up to work and these kids are expressing like, hey, they're grateful to have you as a teacher. Uh, which says a lot. Right. Because do you ever get worn down or feel burnt out that maybe you're not doing that good of enough job for your kids?
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, sometimes I do. Sometimes I'll be, um like, even today, at the end of the day, there were some things going on in school and I was a little bit stressed out and I didn't feel like I was doing the best job that I could. And some days when I come home from that, it's like, man, that was not my best. And sometimes it's not because of me or it's because of extenuating circumstances. Sometimes it's literally just going through the motions of the day. Um, and then I think that's kind of what I recognize, like, hey, something's going on here, I'm burning myself out. Um, and I do put pressure on myself, but I also get to that point where I realize I am one part of this kid's life and I'm trying to do the best I can to help them in that one part, but I also can't make the whole difference by myself. So, um, I try to take a little bit of pressure off myself, um, in that respect. So sometimes I do get burned out when I feel like that maybe I'm not living up to the expectations I'm putting on myself.
Chris Miller: Mhm there's going to be people who listen to this thinking about being teachers, and maybe they're in high school, maybe they're studying education right now or doing a career Pivot. They've already graduated. They want to transition into teaching. What advice would you give to people who are considering getting into teaching?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Zane O'Brien: Um, it would definitely be just make sure that they're passionate about it first, because it is a type of job where you can't really just leave it and then come home and it's behind you. It's something that you kind of carry with you throughout the whole school year. Um, so I would just caution them to first be prepared for that. Um, and then the advice I would give them is just don't take it too seriously. I think sometimes and sometimes students pick it up too, where if a teacher is taking everything so seriously, that they're not able to create an environment of trust and respect. Um, and I don't know, I kind of lost my train of thought.
Chris Miller: But yeah, it's that idea of whenever you leave, it's not like a turnpike toll person you leave and somebody replaces you and it keeps going.
Speaker C: By.
Chris Miller: And it doesn't matter what happened when you leave, because whenever you show up, it's just the same thing over and over again. Uh, one of the cool things I would imagine with teaching is that you are working with people who are always growing. Right. So day one in August, they're going to be much different than they are in May. And, uh, when they go home, the stuff that happens at home, that's also going to show up at the classroom too, right. Is there moments or are there moments that you have where you could tell that stuff is happening at home?
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and sometimes it's even like you could see it physiologically. You could see it physically. You could see it, um, just based off of what you had noticed previously about the student and just their demeanor for the day. Um, and then I try to be flexible with them and try to meet them where they are. Um, I usually will tell kids, like, one of the things at the beginning of the year, like, I want to be empathetic with them and try to meet them where they are in their situation, but also hold them to a certain standard. So if I notice that a kid is having, um, a rough day or if there's something going on in the background, um, we'll give them some grace that day. And then I'll try to see maybe if the next day, if it's corrected, maybe it was something like, I don't know, maybe they had a bad soccer practice the day before and they're just not looking forward to going to practice. Um, or it could be like a big family issue where their family is going through stuff and then I'll make sure to follow up with them and be like, hey, I'm here for you, I'll be flexible with you. I'll give you grace with our school work. Um, but let's treat the human side of it first. For sure. Yeah. You look for things like, um.
Speaker C: Social.
Zane O'Brien: And emotional changes, um, and trying to decide whether it's just a natural change or whether it is something happening in the background. It's kind of tricky, for sure. Um, that's lucky. Why we have counselors and stuff that are a little bit more trained with that. But oftentimes the counselors will, like, lean on the teachers and be like, hey, have you seen anything in class, um, that we could do to help this kid?
Chris Miller: Mhm, that would be something that I would imagine people get intimidated by is when we're talking about just biology terms and vocabulary, then that's one thing to remember to memorize this stuff and to remember that the Mitochondria is the powerhouse.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, that's the joke, right?
Chris Miller: Yeah, all of that. But then to think about, I get to be that person, that frontline representative of education to this kid. And this kid may have just experienced something terrible at the house and learning what am I going to do about that? Um, did you find yourself scared or nervous?
Zane O'Brien: Um, I remember preparing to be a teacher when I made that decision to and I ran into someone that I went to church with a long time ago when I was a pretty little kid and he was a teacher. And we just started having conversation and he asked me, are you in college now? It's like, yeah, I'm at Ku. I'm wanting to be a teacher. And, um, he said two things. One was, um, don't let the bachelors get you down. First of all, I was like, okay, thanks. And then the second thing he said, whether the students realize it or not, a lot of them, the best part of their day is coming to school, whether they want to admit it or not because of what's going on at home.
Speaker C: Wow.
Zane O'Brien: Uh, so I took those two things and I was like, okay, as long as I give my best, as long as I'm not just going through the motions every single day, then if I'm the bright spot of a kid's day, like once, maybe their whole school year, then maybe that would be worth it.
Chris Miller: Mhm. That's a good two good bits of advice.
Speaker C: Yes.
Zane O'Brien: He was a retired teacher, so he had taught forever, seasoned, he knew what he was talking about. So I was like, okay, I appreciated that advice.
Chris Miller: Have you ever caught a kid buying to you?
Zane O'Brien: Yes, I'm, um, trying to remember a specific example. Uh, mostly with football, it's usually like, I'll talk to them about their grades. Like, I have a pretty high standard. If they're failing a class, they can't play. That's kind of been my standard with that. And usually I'll communicate with their teachers and just kind of ask what's going on in class. And I remember one time there was a kid that was just being the typical class clown or whatever and was making the learning environment difficult for everyone else. And so I just pulled him into my office and I just started asking him about it. I was like, so tell me how things are going. And so and so's class. And he lied about it. He's like, things are going fine. I was like, really? And then just kind of kept asking questions and it just keeps spiraling. So usually if I catch a kid in a lie, I'll just start asking more questions and they'll eventually tell on themselves.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: At some point it gets exhausted.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Building the false narrative.
Zane O'Brien: Right.
Chris Miller: You're like, well, if you look at the tape here right.
Zane O'Brien: I have some emails I could show you.
Chris Miller: Right. I can see that you haven't raised your hand once. Yeah, actually you're reading your phone over here. Yeah, it's a big job. Uh, it's one of those jobs that it's hard to imagine how impactful teachers actually are. And then once you do imagine that you want them to be as good as they can possibly be. So one of the things that I can be competitive, right. That's part of my nature. And I'm always trying to get better. Now, as a teacher, how do you get better and what do you want to get better at?
Zane O'Brien: Teachers are really rigid people and don't really like change or they don't like people telling them how to teach their classes. And teachers are also the most complaining this group of people I've ever met. And maybe that's just because of what I've been around, but they complain a lot. Um, and the reason I say that is part of getting better. We are continually flooded with new strategies to try in the classroom, new procedures, and then no one really wants to try them. I kind of try to make it an effort to try things and then I feel like with that, I'm just, I improve. Um, so it's more just taking things that we learn and actually putting it into practice and then reflecting on it and then just trying to incrementally get better. Um, the hard thing about it though, is it's like there's not a one size fits all approach for each individual student plus each individual teacher. So I could be teaching the same exact thing as another teacher, but we could teach it in wildly different ways and it could both be successful because that was what was best for both of us and our personalities and just the way that we approach things. So, um, I guess trying to get better, there's just those natural opportunities to seek out. Um, and I think the reflection process is huge, of just like, looking at why something didn't work and then not beating yourself up over it and then trying to change it.
Chris Miller: Yeah, that makes sense. I know that they have those Pedagogy instructors, like, teaching people how to do.
Zane O'Brien: That'S something I would like to do for sure. Uh, but teachers don't always like to hear that. They don't like to hear that maybe the way that they're doing things is not the best way or to even try to consider doing something different. Um, which I don't know, if I teach for the rest of my career and I'm 45, 50 years old, I might be the same boy who knows? I'm young and willing to learn at this point.
Chris Miller: But mhm, hopefully in ten years you'll be able to listen back to this.
Zane O'Brien: You'll, uh, send me a reminder to.
Chris Miller: Listen to this and say, okay, maybe I should consider this new augmented reality thing.
Speaker C: Got me.
Zane O'Brien: Chris I'll consider teaching in the metaverse or whatever going forward, instead of using.
Chris Miller: Um, microbiology, we're going to be looking at nanobiology, we're going to be looking.
Zane O'Brien: At breaking some fourth walls here, talking to ourselves in the future.
Chris Miller: Right.
Zane O'Brien: That's the benefit of podcasting, though.
Speaker C: It is.
Zane O'Brien: It's almost like a self reflective thing.
Chris Miller: And I could say future. Chris if you're listening to this right now. Right. Keep doing your thing.
Speaker C: Yeah. Ah.
Chris Miller: Hopefully, it's a good one.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Miller: If the thing you're doing is good, then keep doing it. If not, then change your ways. Do you have a message to future Zane in ten years?
Zane O'Brien: Say that again.
Chris Miller: Do you have a message to your future self in ten years?
Zane O'Brien: A message to my future self in ten years. It might just be a pep top who just, like, keep trucking on. I don't know where I'll be in ten years. That's the crazy thing. It might be very similar. We might have kids. You never know.
Chris Miller: Yeah, well, you'll be able to show them this podcast.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: So before we wrap anything, we should hit anything you're on your first podcast.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: Anything you want to put out there in the digital space?
Zane O'Brien: Anything I want to put out there in the digital space? Uh, I don't know. I don't have any really interesting stories that come up off the top of my head.
Chris Miller: Join the club. That's the hard part, is, whenever you have the microphone in front of you and you're sitting down, you want it to be as entertaining and as fun as possible. Right. And at the same time, we can only be thinking about one thing. But I appreciate you coming on.
Zane O'Brien: Yeah, it was fun.
Chris Miller: As a teacher, you are forming the minds of the youth, for sure.
Speaker C: Okay.
Chris Miller: So keep doing your thing.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Chris Miller: All right, folks, we'll see you next time.
Speaker C: Bye.