#2 - Nate Andre: Law Enforcement, Ministry, and Haiti

12-31-22Nate-Andre-Mastered-Final.mp3

Chris [00:00:09] Okay. Well, you are officially live. Salud. 

Nate [00:00:14] Cheers, my man. I can't hear myself right. 

Chris [00:00:18] I turned it to where? Whenever we're doing the recording. 

Nate [00:00:22] I can't hear myself at all. Wow. 

Chris [00:00:25] How about that? Yeah. Okay, now you can hear yourself. Well, what's happening, Nate? 

Nate [00:00:30] What's going on? Chris? 

Chris [00:00:33] I'm glad to have you here. We are hanging out at the table. We just played a little better digital basketball. You got the dub? 

Nate [00:00:43] I did. I won. 

Chris [00:00:45] Surprisingly. Typically, I'm the one who wins. 

Nate [00:00:48] Yeah, except for sometimes, like today. 

Chris [00:00:50] Yeah, except for today. But I was super excited to have you on whenever I was planning this. You were one of the people I was excited about because I feel like you have a lot to bring to the table. The pressure is on. Not too much pressure, though, but that idea of. Not only is your occupation or your past two previous occupations, one that someone talks about a lot. You also have a cool story. 

Nate [00:01:22] Yeah, that's right. That's right. 

Chris [00:01:26] We're still getting through all the awkwardness of a podcast, but. Since I just started this. It's all new to me. So we're going to be helping each other out here. 

Nate [00:01:38] Sounds good to me, man. And as you said, I'm excited to be on here. When you told me that you were starting a podcast, I thought you were joking at first, but you actually did it. And I'm glad I get to be on it. 

Chris [00:01:51] And we got the equipment here. I told him I drove to Oklahoma and you're like, Could you have not bought it somewhere else? 

Nate [00:01:59] Yeah, Yeah. But. But then he told me that you drove to Oklahoma because you wanted to also visit your family. 

Chris [00:02:06] Yeah. 

Nate [00:02:06] So you got some equipment and you visited your family? 

Chris [00:02:09] A two for one? Yeah. And my family's in Oklahoma. But where's your family at? 

Nate [00:02:15] So my family is actually a little bit all over the place. My mom, my sister, aunts, uncles from my mom's side are primarily in South Florida as far as my dad's side. My dad himself is currently in Boston and my dad's side of the family, my uncles and aunts, they're in Montreal, Canada. Wow. 

Chris [00:02:40] Mm hmm. So that's where Canada comes from. 

Nate [00:02:42] That's what kind of native son from Chris is saying that because it's not an insider. But a few years ago, not a few years ago, probably more like in 2000, 13 and 2014. So maybe about eight years ago, I had this habit of going to Canada at least three times a year. Montreal, Canada. And it was it was really fun in Montreal, Canada. You know, I got to do a lot of exciting things over there and I got to meet a lot of different people and men. Canadians know how to party. 

Chris [00:03:17] Yeah. 

Nate [00:03:18] So I partied a lot in Montreal, Canada. 

Chris [00:03:20] And I've heard it's so cold over there that people will hang out inside. 

Nate [00:03:25] Yeah, Basement hangouts are the best hangouts. That's yeah, because you have to understand to be far much. Okano was the first time I think I saw Snow because before that, wow, I lived in Haiti and then I lived in South Florida. So there wasn't much, much snow there. So. Yeah. 

Chris [00:03:42] And you were in Haiti for how long? That's where you grew up, right? 

Nate [00:03:46] Yeah. So I was born in Haiti. I came to the United States in 2004. I was about ten years old when I came to the United States. It's actually a pretty cool story, Chris. So under 2004, we were under presidents. Oh, what's his name? President Aristide. That was his name. And there was there was a coup d'etat. If you don't want a coup, the ties, it's basically when the people or the people get tired of the government and they want to overthrow the government. So whether that's the military or the general overthrowing the government or whether it's the people coming together and overthrowing the government, so we're in the midst of a coup d'etat about to happen. And so there was a lot of there was a lot of violence. There's a lot of kidnaping, There is a lot of unrest. So going to school was was was pretty dangerous. So they canceled school. A lot of times there is a probably a lot of students in my school that got kidnaped and I remember my dad was would talk about how his coworkers had some of their kids get kidnaped for ransom. So every single day, you know, coming out of your house was was you praying that you're going to make it back home alive? I remember even when my mom and my dad would go to work, I was also, you know, always on edge, worried that they wouldn't make it home that day. And so it would it just wasn't a safe place to be. The feeling of peace or safety, wasn't there? So without telling many people, you know, one day we we just moved to the United States and we didn't go back for eight years. 

Chris [00:05:22] That's a visit. 

Nate [00:05:23] And then so yeah, so it was pretty interesting story of how we got here. But. And what's interesting is I think I blocked out a lot of memories even from that last year of being in Haiti because there was so much trauma. Mm hmm. Of fear of death. So. Yeah. 

Chris [00:05:41] And was ousted no longer in office when you came back. 

Nate [00:05:46] So, I mean, not now, long after, maybe a month or two months after showing enough. You know, I saw on the news two months after we left Haiti, I saw on the news, you know, that there was a helicopter. I'm not sure if it was an American helicopter or something that came and picked them up. And, you know, they from somewhere else out of the country, really. And the country was was was free of Aristide at that point. 

Chris [00:06:11] Like they arrested him. 

Nate [00:06:12] No, I think and I don't know all the facts about this, but I think the U.S. government might have just gotten him out of there just for safety purposes because there was too much unrest. And I'm sure his life was in danger at that point, too. 

Chris [00:06:29] Yeah. So you're ten years old when you leave. Are you aware enough to know, okay, we're leaving for a better life or. 

Nate [00:06:39] Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, I'll never forget the one of the most peaceful feelings I remember in my life that I've ever had was being on the airplane to come to the United States. 

Chris [00:06:51] Wow. 

Nate [00:06:51] And even then, I was on the airplane. I was I. Couldn't wait for it to take off, you know, because until this airplane takes off, there is not I'm not sure safety of that point totally. So I'll never forget that feeling of being in the airplane was just waiting for it to take off so I could feel safe. 

Chris [00:07:10] You're like, Let's get out of here. 

Nate [00:07:11] Yeah, let's. 

Chris [00:07:12] Go step. 

Nate [00:07:12] On it. Yeah. Bad thing is the my my dad actually stayed back in Haiti at that point for a few years after so that he could continue to financially support us. He was working as an engineer in Haiti, so if he moved to the United States at that point, it would be it would be hard to find a job that would be able to support us. So he stayed in Haiti for a few years after that to financially support us. 

Chris [00:07:39] So it was bittersweet because you were leaving. Your mom was leaving. 

Nate [00:07:42] Sister was leaving. 

Chris [00:07:43] Sister is leaving, but. 

Nate [00:07:44] Dad was staying back. 

Chris [00:07:46] Okay? Mm hmm. But your dad thought that it was more important to have you all leave, and he could still make the bread at home. 

Nate [00:07:54] Exactly. Mm hmm. 

Chris [00:07:55] But you're fearful for him whenever you're gone. 

Nate [00:07:58] Exactly. 

Chris [00:07:59] So when did he come over? 

Nate [00:08:01] Uh, that's a little bit of a complex story, too, because I think my dad would would come visit often. Probably at least, like, three or four times a year. And then eventually, I think he became a permanent resident of the U.S., maybe in 2008 or so. And but then he moved to Boston and my parents got separated and divorced and. And yeah, so I don't know the full story of that either. I was too young to ask, I guess. 

Chris [00:08:33] Yeah, that makes sense. With Haiti being as crazy as it was at the time, whenever you landed and you touched down, was it a culture shock? Or were you already pretty familiar with? Because you ain't in Florida, right? 

Nate [00:08:46] Yes. And I've visited Florida probably three times before we officially moved over there. My aunt lived here and she was kind of the person because I had other family members that also moved to the United States from Haiti. And I was kind of the person that would help every one of us get acclimated again, our feet. And then after that, I should take on the next the next family members that would move here and do the same thing with them. So we stayed for my aunt for about a year or a year and a half or so before we actually before me, my mom, my sister actually stayed on our own. 

Chris [00:09:26] Wow. 

Nate [00:09:27] Yeah. 

Chris [00:09:27] So your aunt showed up earlier, you said, or was she already. 

Nate [00:09:31] She was already she was already in Florida for probably at least eight, ten years, maybe before we did. 

Chris [00:09:39] Would you say you had a good childhood other than I listed in that year of. 

Nate [00:09:45] Yeah. I mean, up until the last maybe two or three years, you know, I'd say was pretty good childhood. And I had friends, you know, played outside and had a good relationship with my dad and mom. So overall was pretty good up until those last couple of years when when things got pretty crazy and. Yeah. 

Chris [00:10:05] And you were playing soccer with the bottle? 

Nate [00:10:07] Yeah, I was playing soccer with a bottle. So, you know, in Haiti, I've. I don't know what it was. Maybe we we just didn't have much resources for, say, or, um, but I mean, yeah, a lot of the school kids played would play soccer with with a water bottle or a Tampico bottle. And maybe we were just really creative. 

Chris [00:10:29] Yeah. Yeah. It's like if you hit that thing right, it's. 

Nate [00:10:32] Yeah, it spins around. It spins around and you're playing on concrete too. That that was pretty dangerous. No, I think about it. 

Chris [00:10:39] Yeah, that's kind of. I imagine you hurt your toe quite often after you had gotten to the US. Was there a lot of you were that odd kid? 

Nate [00:10:50] Oh, yeah. So I would say the challenging part of my childhood was actually the first couple of years of moving to the United States and Haiti. For the last three years, I feared for safety, first two years of moving to the United States. I just wanted to fit in. So the fear was just not fitting in or not belonging and. And. And. Yeah. So that was rough, you know, not speaking the language and just not having a lot of friends. I think my sister did a little bit better than me. I think middle school is just one of the hardest, hardest times in anybody's life. You're just awkward and you add on top of that that you're awkward. You don't speak the language and you don't you're trying to figure things out that just throws a lot into on your plate. And I was also pretty aurorae at that time, too. So it was just there was a lot going on. You know, you got a you got overweight kid who doesn't speak English very well and does have many friends. And so I was pretty difficult. I was very difficult. 

Chris [00:11:56] Were there a lot of Haitians where you went? Uh. 

Nate [00:12:01] In my immediate environment, I wouldn't say so. No. 

Chris [00:12:06] You were, for the most part, like you said, trying to learn your English. How long did it take you before you figured it out? 12. Were you fluent. 

Nate [00:12:14] By 12 or 13? I'd say I was pretty fluent. Yeah. I mean, I watched a lot of TV, read a lot of books, and I mean, it was just I was trying to fit in pretty fast. So I did the extra work on. So to understand things and to understand the culture and to understand everybody's behavior because, I mean, it is a culture shock, just how everybody behaves. You know, in Haiti, you got you know, you're I went to a private school there, so, you know, tucking in my shirt and know that I'm here, nobody tucked in their shirts. So I was I was like. 

Chris [00:12:48] You had to keep your shirt untucked. And then you said you're a over aware overweight. 

Nate [00:12:54] Yeah, I was I was really overweight. And and, you know, the fat jokes. Middle school kids are not shy about fat jokes. And yeah I mean. 

Chris [00:13:04] It helps when you adults when you can't understand them that way. 

Nate [00:13:06] Although I know I understand those pretty well. 

Chris [00:13:11] Yeah. Yeah. That's so never. Having a lack of mastery over language is nice when people are teasing you. 

Nate [00:13:20] Yeah. Middle school. There's just so much bullying. I just. 

Chris [00:13:23] Yeah. 

Nate [00:13:24] I feel for middle school kids. It's just a rough time because more than likely, you know, a lot of the kids I'm actually a youth pastor also. Right. And a lot of students that get to interact with middle schoolers, they're going through a lot. You know, they're trying to fit in. And on top of that, sometimes there's there's home life that might not be over. Their parents are are separated, divorced. So you got home issues and then you got school issues. You've got friend issues. There's just so many issues and you don't really know how to put a name to it. You don't really know how to navigate it. So I feel for middle schoolers. 

Chris [00:14:02] Whenever you had said middle schools, awkward middle school stuff for everybody, I was thinking, yeah, it was tough for you. But then I know we've had conversations where we're talking about youth ministry and how there's so many moments where you're just sitting in a group trying to get something going. But it's so hard because middle schoolers. When you're there, you don't have that social awareness. You don't have an identity. You don't know what you bring to a group. And it's really tough to do. I can only imagine how tough it would to do ministry there. Other than have fun. It's like, how do you know that you are actually doing something? Because it's really hard to tell anything in middle school. 

Nate [00:14:44] Yeah, I mean, that's what I would say. You know, it just takes time and patience because, I mean, relationships take time and patience. In high school, I think you can communicate a little bit better. You understand your surroundings. You kind of look at your past and everything that's led up to where you are so you can communicate things a little bit better. You understand what's going on. You're not as insecure. But yeah, in middle school, you know, you're just so insecure and it just takes time and patience from people that you look up to or even your friends to just have patience with you and and, and just stick around and and then you start to formulate your your thoughts and and all that. 

Chris [00:15:27] So is Catholicism real big in Haiti or is it? Yeah. 

Nate [00:15:31] Yeah, it is. So, I mean, I was Catholic up until I moved to the United States. And I mean, I went to a Catholic school. 

Chris [00:15:39] Right. 

Nate [00:15:39] Well, right, right. So I'd say in Haiti, you know, either you were if you're probably middle class or so, you would probably go into a private school that's Catholic, right? With the St John's or the Saints. And so, yeah, I went to a Catholic school, My sister went to a Catholic school. It was either an all boys school or an all girls school. So you kind of learned to flow from there, got communion and and all that confirmation. So that was pretty big there. 

Chris [00:16:10] So you're no longer Catholic? 

Nate [00:16:12] I am not. I am not. I am not. I am not Catholic. 

Chris [00:16:15] When do you change jerseys? 

Nate [00:16:17] Change jerseys? I'd say, you know, like so I mean, when I moved to the United States, my dad's side of the family, it was pretty heavy into Catholicism. And but when I moved to United States, my mom's side of the family are the main ones were in Florida. They were Protestant. Yeah. So my aunt, the one I told you about that got everybody acclimated when they moved to the United States. I think part of her deal was also she she would take us to church. You know, that's part of the deal. Yeah. I don't think you really had an option on Sunday mornings. So we would go to we'd go to church with her and that was Protestant church. 

Chris [00:16:51] She seems like a superstar. 

Nate [00:16:53] And yeah, she does not hold back. You know, she's, she's, she's pretty assertive person. She, she, she lets her thoughts be known and but she's done a lot for the family. And I think we all respect her and appreciate her for that. 

Chris [00:17:09] Yeah. The way you present the story, it sounds like she put the team on her back. 

Nate [00:17:14] She did. She did. You know, even not think about it. I mean, a lot of us, so me and my cousins, you know, looking back on it, you know, like we were like we were kids. We didn't really understand what's going on. But now I think as we're getting older, you know, we can kind of look back and appreciate the sacrifices that she's made. But not only that, the sacrifices that our parents made, you know, because I mean, think about my mom. She's probably like, what, maybe in her like late thirties at that point. So moving to the United States and, you know, herself not speaking the language, having to start a new career. She was a nurse in Haiti. But I mean, that doesn't automatically make her a nurse when she moved to the U.S. So she gets a she had to go back to school to be a nurse in United States. And, you know, she does have a car. And so there's a lot of sacrifices. I can think that, um, that my parents made and a lot of immigrants make whenever they move to the United States to start a new life because of safety issues in their home countries. So for me, you know, I look at that and I'm like, man, um, I'm not working hard enough. A lot of times this is what I put in my head because of these guys. I do all of that and like, what am I doing with the resources I've been given? And so that, that, that sticks in my mind a lot. My aunt, my mom and all those older generations, they made a lot of sacrifices that we take for granted nowadays. 

Chris [00:18:40] Yeah. Yeah. You hear that? I hear that immigrant story of people moving their families and then showing up to a completely new place, learning new language, getting recertified or figuring out their career. And that's such a huge feat. I know that. Marrying Annie. I hear about people coming over from Italy and just landing in some spot in the US and starting in Delhi and going from there. 

Nate [00:19:06] Yeah, it is the American dream. 

Chris [00:19:08] It's the American dream. And there's so much entrepreneurship there. And I think that. I never really. Saw that growing up because I just grew up in Oklahoma and there were some like I know in Texas right there you have the Mexican border. So you'll see. Immigrants and like immigration, legal or illegal and. There's like Oklahoma for the most part. Texas for the most part, conservative. So typically, it's like a negative bent towards immigration. Right. And saying, oh, there needs to be better border control and there needs to be. Better watch security over immigrants. But then you hear like the. This idea of this immigrant story and how hard it is and things that are leaving behind. And it makes so much sense. Right. But in Florida, like where you were living. I feel like there's not a lot of the people ever give you a hard time and say you're an immigrant or. 

Nate [00:20:20] In South Florida? No, I mean, because I mean, South Florida is made up of immigrants. Right. You know, so I don't think anybody ever gave others a hard time for that. And for other places in United States, I think, you know, it's it's just, you know, people will make those comments or cause them because they just don't understand. They haven't been through it. You know, and I've been in circles where I've I've heard comments to where, you know, people just don't fully understand the sacrifices that people have to make or how hard it was for some people to do that. You know, one thing I hear often is like, you know, if you're going to come to the country, do it the right way. And but, you know, I wonder if somebody would say that if their life was in danger. Right. If their kids lives were in danger, would you really do things the right way or quote unquote, the right way? Would you wait for two years to hear back from the U.S. government that you were allowed to they would you like to come the right way if you knew that maybe in three months your kid might have gotten kidnap for ransom? You know, so I think those comments sometimes are made because they just don't fully understand. So I don't hold that against anybody. But having been through it and haven't seen it, you know, I could say that as if I was a dad and I knew that my my, my kids, their lives were in danger. I wouldn't do things, quote unquote, the right way. The first priority would be the safety of my family. So. 

Chris [00:21:44] Yeah, it's a recreation of what that value of rightness is. Yeah. In one instance, what's right is. Your kid's health and your family's health. And then the other instance, people are not contextualizing it, so. It's really cool to hear the context and to see that the cool thing I think is. You come over from Haiti, then you're in Florida. And like you said, South Florida is a melting pot. There's a whole bunch of different people. Then you go from there and you somehow end up in Kansas. Okay. Which is so funny because it's like I did Oklahoma. Like, that was where I came up, right? And at my university, we had a huge study abroad program. So there'd be people from all around the world and B, Oklahoma in the middle of the country. Same thing with Kansas, right above Oklahoma. So I know I'm missing a lot, but. It's so crazy to see that trajectory in that map path. To see that. Now you're in Kansas and who knows you know where you'll be in the future. But what branch out to Kansas? 

Nate [00:22:59] Oh, man. That's that's that that's a good story there. I mean, short answer is I was a lover boy, you know? So I met this girl on I met this girl in line. Right. And she was in Kansas. And so I. I went out to Kansas to visit her. And, you know, she was a small town, small town, Kansas, probably a town of 700 people. I went to visit this girl and I was like, man, you know, this girl seems nice. She seems pretty cool. I'm 26 at the time, by the way, and maybe 25 at the time. I'm 28 right now. And she also comes to visit me in South Florida. And I think both of us visiting each other, we both had culture shock. I've never been in a town of 700 people, and I think she's oh, I think she whenever she was in South Florida, she wasn't really feeling the whole big city. So many people vibe there was probably too fast paced. So we kind of just got to talking and I said, we got ah, in my head. We probably got serious pretty quickly, right? And at this time I'm like, Well, you know, if we're going to make this thing work, you know, one of us has to move. And I'm not moving to small town Kansas, and I don't think she's down to move to South Florida either. So I'd say we probably met somewhere in the middle where I was like, you know, maybe Kansas City would be would be somewhat nice and. Lawrence, Kansas also, you know, seemed a little bit like it was a blue dot in a red state, rising a little bit more diverse. Mm. And so this time I applied for, for a job in Lawrence, Kansas, which is that at a church I was working at a church in South Florida. So I applied to church in Lawrence, Kansas Velocity Church. And but as a as I'm in the application process, about two months in, you know, me and this girl kind of like, you know decide that maybe things aren't working now. Maybe things are not going to work out. So there's a big maybe on this relationship or whatever it was. And so I got a decision to make, you know, do I? Only reason I'm applying for this job in Lawrence, Kansas, is for this girl, and this relationship is probably not going to work out. Do I go to Kansas or do I stay in Florida? At the time, I was still live with my parents and Florida. Besides, Haley was the only thing I really knew in terms of living somewhere. And I was like, Man, you know, I hear Kansas is cheap and, you know, why not start something? I'm pretty adventurous guy and like, try new things. So I just decided to take a leap of faith and still moved to Lawrence, Kansas. Anyway, so I took the job and and was out in Kansas. Relationship didn't work out the girl and ended up being my my wife out here. Anyways. So it all worked out and three years later I'm still in Kansas, so still enjoying it. So, you know, it's crazy how how things work out. I think honestly, at that time in my life, I was so ready for anything new. You put anything in front of me I probably wouldn't want after it. Yeah. So I was just kind of ready for a change, nevertheless. 

Chris [00:26:16] So yeah, that's how I was feeling. I was in grad school and in North Carolina I meet Annie and we start getting a little more intense and it's thinking, okay, I think this is going to be the woman I marry. So she's about to graduate and she's thinking about high school and I am in a job that I'm not crazy about. I'm trying to figure out what job I want to do. And then she gets an offer to do. She's got the University of Kansas. So I'm like, Man, this is an adventure. And it seemed exciting to me. And I was like, Let's do it. And I, I remember whenever I quit my job and decided to go to k k you with Annie, she was like, What? What are you doing? Like, you're quitting your job. And I was like, Hey, I'm going to go to Kansas with you. I'm like, This is going to be we're going to be able to do it together. 

Nate [00:27:11] And you must really love this girl. 

Chris [00:27:13] Yeah, right. It was like, Hey, this is something that we're going to be able to like the idea of her going by herself and doing all of this stuff. I wasn't crazy about that. And then I wasn't crazy about the idea of us doing long distance. It was an adventure. I had never even been to Lawrence, Kansas. It's a gamble. It's a it's exciting, though. 

Nate [00:27:37] It is. It is exciting. Yeah. I mean, I'd be down to just live anywhere. I've kind of got that free spirit. The way I look at it, man, is. Listen, life is is short. Uh, you know, the Christian view is, you know, we have eternity to look forward to. So why not make the most of life and get to see different things and experience different things, know different people, know different cultures and and really enjoy God's creation. So yeah. 

Chris [00:28:12] If someone gave you ten grand and they said you get to plan a trip, what would the trip be? Where would you be going and what would you do? 

Nate [00:28:20] I feel like one way or the other, I'm going to throw out a cliche. 

Chris [00:28:22] Mm hmm. 

Nate [00:28:23] But, you know, I haven't been to Europe. Never been to Europe. Uh, so I probably want to go there. I'd probably want to go to places that haven't really heard the gospel yet. You know, I think that'd be pretty interesting. So, um. Yeah, I just have, like, a like a desire in me to really see different cultures, so I honestly don't know where. Probably somewhere in Europe. 

Chris [00:28:51] Yeah, some, like Spain. 

Nate [00:28:52] Italy, Spain would be nice, but I also feel like those places are just so nice. Well, I also want to see, though, the not so nice parts of the world. 

Chris [00:29:00] Ukraine? 

Nate [00:29:01] Yeah, Ukraine. What about you? What would you say? 

Chris [00:29:04] I have one place that I want to go. Is Bolivia. 

Nate [00:29:08] Bolivia? 

Chris [00:29:09] Yeah. So that's still the Americas, right? But south of us. Because I heard that they have these biospheres, and it's these parts of the country where essentially, no matter the time of year, it's always 64 to 72. 

Nate [00:29:28] Just go to Florida. 

Chris [00:29:29] Yeah. 

Nate [00:29:30] Well, I guess it gets about 9400 degrees there. 

Chris [00:29:33] So and I was going to say, but they're hurricanes in Florida, but then I imagine they're hurricanes and Bolivia. I just don't know about them. 

Nate [00:29:41] Yeah. Uh, so do you think you'd ever leave Lawrence, Kansas? 

Chris [00:29:47] I think that right now Lawrence is nice. We're really enjoying it. 

Nate [00:29:53] Uh, do you have a set time that you typically give yourself at places like, Hey, I'm probably going to stay here for at least ten years or. 

Chris [00:30:00] No set time because. Most of the things that would determine whether or not we leave. Aren't on a timeline. Right. Like if I had one of my parents in really bad health and then they needed some form of at home care, and I felt like I needed to be present for that. Then we'd bounce or like a great opportunity, something that we wouldn't be able to replicate here in Lawrence. We'd leave. There are things like that. But for the most part, that idea of when you leave and you show up to a new place, you've got to build a whole new community. You've got to find all this new stuff. You've got to figure out the best places to eat. And I see people that industry I came from health care technology. You're working with these really large companies and consultants and they travel all the time. So what they'll do is they'll be traveling for work, but then in two years they'll get a job offer from the next best company and then move and then move and then move. And it's cool to see that career growth, but everything else suffers, right? Yeah. Like they don't get that opportunity of building the community or of finding that place to where you can eat and you know, the menu. And whenever people come and visit, you get to take them there. That's what we're working on. 

Nate [00:31:20] Yeah, I could see that. 

Chris [00:31:23] We want to build from the ground up. And that's what we're doing right now. 

Nate [00:31:26] Yeah, I could see that. You know, I'm always probably in conflict in that with like in my head, uh, I mean, same thing with you thing. Lawrence is nice. My wife and I love our community here in Lawrence. Love our friends here. And. But, you know, South Florida has also had a great community as well. And I really enjoyed the community there. And I never left South Florida never would have got me in the community I have here and never want to be the type of person that always just gets up and goes, Right. But oh, no, I think it's that that I wrestle with, too. Which, you know, I think thing thing about like Bible, like the Apostle Paul was just always on the move, you know. So it's almost like he sacrificed his comfort. I mean, had Jesus, I think was always on the move, right? You just kind of went to places and built community. So if I think about, like people that are biblically, people that look up to you, they were always kind of on the move or they they were always on a mission or on the move to do different things. And I think they still had somewhat of a community and maybe they just travel with people that were closest with them. And so that probably helped out, but they're always on the move. And that versus the idea of, you know, back in the days. Versus the idea of staying in a place long term. And this is you have one job. You know, you that's where you kind of grow and you work for 40 years and then you retire there and then your kids are raised there. Then they grow up and they retire there as well, kind of build this ongoing generations of of people that stick to this town are committed to it. People know your last name, and that's also a pretty cool, a pretty cool idea. So I think I go back and forth, Nah, I'm not an extremist on either side, but I think there's there's a little bit of advantage that I see to live in both ways where you do have a home base, but maybe your travel and see different things are different places. I don't know. 

Chris [00:33:39] Yeah, there's there's a tension there because it takes a while to build up a system or a community or things that can contribute out. But at the same time, you do need to be. There needs to be movement. There needs to be. If you talk about ministry and exchange of ideas, there needs to be. You can't have all of one thing in one place. Some people love Dallas, Texas, but they're not going to be able to have the tall pines that North Carolina has or yeah, they're not going to be able to have. The ocean. Like Florida. 

Nate [00:34:20] Yeah. 

Chris [00:34:20] So it's a tension. 

Nate [00:34:24] But yeah, I mean, so, for example, a question I, I wrestle with a lot or a question I don't like receiving is, Hey, do you feel called here? Like. Like what? What do you mean? Why do I feel called here for, like, the next, like, 60 years of my life? I don't know. Probably not. You know, And I don't know what could happen tomorrow. I know what could happen a year from now. So if you're asking if I feel called here for now, I do. But I'm not going to give you a yes. And then that changes a year later. So I'm always wary of answering those questions or ask for probably my last few jobs I've got, you know, I've gotten that question even. I'm a police officer now at University of Kansas. And I think, you know, as, um, as I was before I became a police officer, University of Kansas, I was applying for a lot of different places. I applied to the DEA. You know, I got through their process and I and I fell my polygraph, so I got kicked out of that, and I applied to NCIS. Same thing. I think I felt bad for that, too. So I was applying for these different places or even Secret Service and interview with them. And that didn't work out. And so I'm a police officer, University of Kansas. And I remember, uh, the interviewer asked me a question, said, Hey, we see you've been applying for these different places. And so, you know, our concern is, are you, are you planning to leave here or is this just a step up? Are you because we don't want to put money into you if you're not going to stay for the long haul? I was like, meant that it's kind of an unfair question. You know, this is just job applying for a job. And if you're asking me if a better opportunity or I think is better comes up, am I going to turn it down and stick with you guys for life? Probably not. Yeah. You know, so those questions always just kind of bother me, you know, because that yeah, for now, for the time being, I'm now I'll give you my 200%, but I'm not going to tell you that I'm going to die here. Retire here and like, be here forever. 

Chris [00:36:30] Yeah. Like, let's be real. Everybody on the interviewing committee knows that if they were to get a good opportunity, they would leave. Yeah, and it's an it's not a well. Built system. Maybe it's a really well built system. That's why it's still around. But this idea of, for instance, my last name is Miller. And what I've heard is last name Miller is because people used to work in the flour mills and they were millers. Right. So depending on what your family did, that's what you did. And we still see that a little bit now. But with the Internet and with universities offering a hundred different majors and all of this different. Opportunity. There's so much lateral motion and movement and for people to expect. You'd be out of place for ten, 15, 20 years, not knowing everything that could pop up. It seems a little wound, but I know that there's also some merit to commitment. But I think professional commitment is a little different, right? When we talk about like relational commitment or we talk about commitment to a value or a principle or commitment to some mission that makes sense. 

Nate [00:37:55] Yeah, I mean, I mean, in the Bible says they let you USPS let you know be now. Mm hmm. And I think it's fair to say, hey, my guess is for the next two years and during that time, there is no maybe with me, you know, I'm committed for the next heck, even if it was for two months, Hey, my guess is for the next two months and I'm fully 200% committed to that. I think that's respectable. I think where it gets blurry is to say, Hey, I need a yes for the next 50 plus years. That's unreasonable to ask of. So when I think of that verse, I think more or less it's just like saying that, hey, as long as you're here, as long as your yes is here, man, like, make sure it's a yes, right? Like, go all out, give, give your all to it. And heck, even if somebody you know or a friend told me, hey, I'm in town for about, you know, six months after that, I got to travel somewhere else. But these six months will be an amazing relationship or friendship commitment between the two of us. I'll make those the best six months ever for that friendship. And they go on. I expect that it's time for them to go, and we move on from there. And so I appreciate that, you know, because I don't like things being in limbo. But nevertheless, also, I think, you know, people need to have the wiggle room to be able to to say, hey, this is how long my yes is for. If it changes, I will let you know when it becomes a no. Hmm. So I think that's what for me in my head, that's what the verse was referring to more or less is is saying as long as it's a yes, make sure it's a yes. When it turns into a no, go above and beyond to communicate that. No. So never leave people wondering or in limbo, but not as much of a time frame as to saying, hey, like I need your yes to be forever. 

Chris [00:39:51] Yeah. It's that idea of remaining in communication and being precise. And being thorough and front facing and saying this is what we got. And if it changes, letting them know. Yeah, that's something that I admire about your leadership. I've seen it. I know that it's not just limited to ministry, but I have seen it in ministry. And this idea of whenever you have people working on a team, you're very vocal about letting them know, Hey, let's be intentional about communicating with one another what we each want. If you're volunteering here and you feel like it's not going to be the best fit for some certain reason, there's no pressure. What I want to do is I want to work with each of you to make sure that. Were able to accomplish and fulfill this vision, but doing it in a way to where people don't feel obligated or burdened. I think that's a really good trait. And I'm curious as to if you learned that from somebody or if that's just been something natural, your awareness of that importance of communication? 

Nate [00:40:59] I think it's avoiding awkwardness, to be honest with you. You know, I can think of so many times where, you know, if I'm in a leadership capacity and somebody, you know, felt like they committed to something with me and they didn't follow through. They're not comfortable to come up to me and say, Hey, sorry, come in and change. And it's a no no. Instead, they just avoid me. And if I see them around, it becomes this awkward thing of where they're not making eye contact with me. And it just kind of it makes the relationship that we have like, feel just awkward or so. And for me, I like to avoid these awkward situations as much as possible. You know, and I think for me, it's just to clear it up because, yeah, I think I'd like to live my life in a way that man, nobody owes me anything. You know, and it's as cliche as it sounds, right? Like Christ gave me everything I have, everything I need through him. Nobody owes me anything. Not my family members, not anybody. Nobody. Nobody owes me anything at all. And matter of fact, I want to live that life that which I'm just always given now, but not like trying to take from people. And so I always want to make that clear with people, you know, if if they ever feel like they let me down, like, no, you didn't. You know, like you don't you don't owe me anything. I appreciate communication. But even then, you know, if if, if you feel like you dropped the ball, that I want to pick up the pieces and let you know or give you the freedom to go, because after that, then we could just have fun, right? I think I enjoy friendships. I enjoy relationships of any capacity. And whenever there's no awkward tension as or somebody let me down or said they're going to show up somewhere where they didn't show up because something came up. Life happens. So I never want people to feel obligated and almost get out of relationship with me because they feel as though they owe me something and they let me down. So honestly, that's probably the basis of it all. They are one point in ministry I got tired of like like having to walk around eggshells with people or people feeling like we couldn't really make eye contact with me because they let me down, or even probably to this day know that even at church I'm in some form of leadership capacity there. And I'll see people like let's say they haven't shown up to a youth group in a while or two young adults, in a way, is this awkward thing where they're not making eye contact. And for me in my head, I'm like, Man, I don't really know. They don't care. But it's like, I get it. Life happens, you're going to make it. Or you found a different Treasury fund, a different thing to go to. That's awesome. I wanna celebrate that with you. So let's not make it awkward. And so for me, I always want to try to communicate as much as possible. Hey, you didn't. And my feelings are not hurt, you know, on this church or organization. It's just a platform to try to build people. It's not my personal life, you know, I'm not going to sleep thinking about how you didn't come to 20 vent that I had or whatever. And so for me, that's probably just trying to avoid awkwardness. Yet it's simplicity. 

Chris [00:44:08] Yeah, that's a good principle. Avoid awkwardness and doing it in a way in which you're not actually, it's not like you're avoiding the people, but what you're doing is you're operating in a way that minimizes awkwardness. 

Nate [00:44:20] Yeah. 

Chris [00:44:22] I'm hearing that. I'm thinking that's a really good thing for people to hear, because many times you will see. People will break people up and label them as, Oh, that's the volunteer guy, right? Or if I want somebody to give money to a cause, or if I want somebody to come over and play basketball. I remember whenever I was organizing basketball and inviting people over and if somebody said they'd be there and they did it, or if somebody just didn't answer at all, then it may. Have a little tension which results in us not talking, and it results in a whole bunch of different stuff. And it's and needs to be so much more nuanced. If someone doesn't show up to an event of yours, that's not breaking your heart and that idea of you're still able to move on. And we if you say you're going to be there like that, your yes, your yes, but be open and communication. And that's really nice for minimizing awkwardness organizationally and also interpersonally. What do you think? Or. I'm navigating between a what or who. Who would you say is a leader? Or you can list multiple leaders, but that have been really impactful and pivotal in your life. 

Nate [00:45:47] Oh, after that, I think you know, Larry, Mayor Pastor Larry Mayor is probably one of the most influential people that I had in my life in the sense I mean, he was he was an older guy. And I'll be honest, you know, like I feel like I equate age with wisdom, too. And so I'm a sucker for just old dudes. And that's not a little bit weird. 

Chris [00:46:14] But it's but it's true, though. Like, you want to be around people who are more seasoned and garner more wisdom. I feel you're really close to there because whenever I showed up to my first church in North Carolina, the one thing I wanted was mentorship. So at the end of service, I'd be going around looking for all the older guys and I'd be introducing myself. And I remember I told one of them, Oh yeah, I'm just going around and introduce myself to older guys. And it was not good. But the whole reason being, I want to be able to build relationships and be able to see people do things in life that hopefully I get to do one day. Right? Be the husband, be the father, be the business leader, be the person who's found their craft and his master and is contributing or giving back in some way. Yeah. So I hear. 

Nate [00:47:05] You. Yeah. Yeah. So Larry Mayer, I mean, he was he was an older guy and he was my previous church I worked at. He was he was a campus pastor. I was guest services director. I was and staff there. And Larry Mayor was was just pivotal and in a lot of things. I remember when he first hired me, he said, hey, I'm hiring you for this job. But out of it, you know, I want you to become a better friend. Once you become a better leader, a better son, a better father, a better husband when you become one. And so all these things, you know, I saw that this guy was just interested in what I brought to the to the table organizationally, but he was interested in me personally and that me a lot of difference in how I led. And because I think ultimately, whether it's church or business, people will stick around longer. If if you're just a good friend, you know, if you're if you're a good friend, people have enough bosses with titles in their lives. I think people look for for friendship. So, Larry, Mayor, I mean, this was in West Palm Beach. There may have been a West Palm Beach for, you know, 20 plus years. You know, he he builds also. He built a name there, but he was known there, you know, fire. The chief firefighter knew him. So he knew people around town. And everybody just has me amazing things to say about their mayor. But making they said about him of was how aggressive a friend he was, meaning Larry Mayer was a person that was just like he never got tired of reaching out to people, of building close relationships with people and people that, you know, he that worked for him. He was their friend before anything else. And I think that displayed the the heart of God to me more than anything else. You know, that didn't matter as much about your performance and things. But men, friendship matters, relationship matters. And Larry, like, really displayed that in a way that I never saw anybody do, in which I respected him as a leader. But I knew he was my friend. He cared about my soul and more than anything else. So that's something I admired in him that I just wanted to do before any titles or wherever I go in my career, I think I always want to make sure that I'm professional organizationally, but I'm also an aggressive friend to people. So I look to Larry a lot for that. 

Chris [00:49:35] And he was an aggressive friend. He was someone who. Put an emphasis on building that friendship relationship and having fun. What's the. What's the thing? So Larry, known as being an aggressive friend, that was something that you associated with him. I know that you've been in different leadership roles in the past currently. What's that one thing that you want to be known for as a leader? 

Nate [00:50:06] Probably that same trait is just, hey, before anything else, you know, um, when, when, when I die, when heck, when, you know, when this world is is over with, you know, things are made. It's faith, hope and love. And it's not it's not so much the respect factor. It's not so much the, um, how people saw me or viewed me or reputation, but it's just man like, man like I want to be known for loving on people, for caring about people, for being, you know, not taking myself too seriously and not taking things too seriously. And yeah, I think I would be known as that. And and heck, I like to have fun too. So I probably mix a little bit of that in my leadership as well. But but yeah, and I think, you know, then there's ways to do that because I also don't want to be know. I've met some people who in leadership positions didn't take their positions seriously and kind of goofed around. I want to be that guy. Right. But nevertheless, I want to make sure that first things first, relationships matter. And how you treat people matters. How you talk to people matters. And I want to be a great friend. 

Chris [00:51:23] Yeah, Yeah, me too. I want to be a awesome friend. And that's probably a reason why we get along. As we both emphasize that we. 

Nate [00:51:34] Like to have fun. 

Chris [00:51:35] We both like to have fun. How do you make sure you're not taking yourself too seriously? 

Nate [00:51:41] Oh, that's a great question. I think whenever. I start. I have a good just a good pulse and things. You know, for example, let's say somebody said something to me that kind of hurt a little bit or kind of hurt my ego a little bit, processing that and and and make sure that it's a healthy way. I think like in the past, you know, like somebody said something that hurts my ego, I kind of want, you know, try to show them who's awful, right? This is nothing. What the big dog is in a in a weird, maybe even passive aggressive or maybe even just assertive, aggressive manner, letting them know or I remember in the past leadership positions it's my it's something to me, you know, that was kind of hurtful, you know. All right, time for a meeting, you know, And in that meeting, I kind of, you know, try to establish. All right, hey, here's the here's the relationship here. You know, I'm kind of leader and you're not leader. 

Chris [00:52:41] You're like, I'm here. You're here. 

Nate [00:52:43] Exactly right. And I burned some bridges that way. Right. And so I think for me now is first thing I do whenever I feel that my ego is heard is I process that and I realize that my worth, you know, that doesn't come from either when they they meant to say or they didn't mean to say whatever it is and kind of just brush that off and establish relationally was the best way to go from there for the both of us. And that's in a leadership sense as far as just like life sense, man, I just, I have a good time. Um, you know, like not taking myself too seriously is pretty easy for me just because, you know, like, my hobbies consist of watching TV or finding new foods to eat or, you know, Ecclesiastes is talks about this, how a lot of things are chasing after the wind. They're not going to matter, you know, once this life is over with. But it does say, you know like there's nothing better to do you for amendment, to eat, to drink, to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And I personalize with that. I love to eat and I love to drink, not drink alcohol, but I love to try different foods and drinks and enjoy the fruits of my labor. So that comes pretty easy for me. And if I could do that in a relationship and in friendships with people, man, we're having a good time. If we could visit new places and tried new foods together, like I'm just having a blast of that point. So that's pretty easy to not take myself seriously in my personal life. 

Chris [00:54:23] Eat, drink and be married. 

Nate [00:54:25] Exactly. Because then anything else is the chasing after the win. Right? But that doesn't mean be lazy when I want to work hard and be a good representative of of good values and and your faith and be ambitious in that sense. But man, when you get home and enjoy your food, you drink and enjoy the fruits of your labor. 

Chris [00:54:47] Kick back. You have. 

Nate [00:54:48] Your legs. 

Chris [00:54:49] With the wife and the dog. 

Nate [00:54:50] Yeah, we watch a lot of TV. You know, we love finding new shows that we enjoy. Are we like watching True Crime? So, you know, like at night with that? Probably we do a lot of that nighttime when we get home is watching shows and and just enjoy that and yeah. 

Chris [00:55:08] So what's your favorite thing about your wife? 

Nate [00:55:10] Everything about my wife is probably just I think she she doesn't take herself too seriously. She's pretty fun and laid back. You know, She just likes to have a good time. You give her some walks, give her dog, and you give her some TV and some food. You know, I've dated girls in the past. I were just very hard to understand that were, you know, pretty aggressive or got upset about a lot of different things or their needs weren't satisfied in a lot of ways in which I always had to I say I'm sorry or me and my wife still have those hard conversations now, but they're they're less than they were with previous girls. I feel like I was always trying to understand girls now, man, you know, I like to eat and I like to enjoy my food and my drink and the fruits of my labor and watch TV. And my wife likes to do the same thing. So that makes life easy, right? 

Chris [00:56:03] And that's that's the goal, right? Is you want to be in a relationship, too, where you're not feeling like you have to crack a different code every single morning. 

Nate [00:56:13] Exactly. Exactly. And and I see that, you know, I think it's it's important to learn your wife, to get to know your relationship and how to grow it. So don't get me wrong, I always want to do that. I always want to be ambitious and and growing things and building things. But at the end of the day, man, you know, you want to be able to rest your head without wondering, like, what did I do wrong? You know? Yeah. 

Chris [00:56:40] So and that's not to say that either of you aren't dynamic individuals, but I think the reason that. Easy is because you two have grown to a level of maturity to where you can communicate what you need. You can communicate what exactly you want. 

Nate [00:56:58] Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, if I look at my my mom and my stepdad, I mean, they have a great relationship. They have they learned about the same thing every single day. You know, my mom comes home from work, she's on the phone with my stepdad, and he comes home about half hour later. And then the kids, he grabs the remote, turn the TV on and watches that. She tells a couple stories about work and then she joins them on the couch and they watch some more TV together. They laugh together. And then after that, they cook, make some food, and then they go to bed. And then same thing the next day and then the weekends, you know, they they'll make more food. And so a common theme here is just food. If you can have some good food and enjoy your food, it's it's a good life. 

Chris [00:57:45] How are you doing? Division of labor at your house. Who does like how did you figure that out? But I'm going to do the dishes. You're going to clean. I'm going to cook. I'm going to take out trash. 

Nate [00:57:55] We don't separate that too much. I mean, my thing was I mean, as far as dishes go, I think we both do dishes. I'm probably more in the mindset of, hey, as soon as you're done eating, just watch. Watch this. You know, you ate it. You watch it. Mm hmm. But, ah, we don't let things collect. I think Shelby probably does more, though. She likes to make things pretty and pretty simple guy. And when I was a bachelor, I enjoyed my house not having anything in it. Because it's easy to clean. Right? Yeah. Just a table and a couch and as simple as it gets. So if I. A vacuum once a week. So that's what I would do when I was single. Somebody likes probably more stuff and she likes things to be prettier and fluffier. So she does a lot more of the cleaning and make things smell pretty good. I take out the trash and and yeah, I mean, or I mean, we'll probably take turns folding laundry, but I mean, you know, I think for me, if I see something that needs to be done, I'll just do it. So. Yeah. 

Chris [00:58:56] I'm I'm curious and trying to figure out the best way to transition over to this. But the question being, how in the world did you get involved in law enforcement? 

Nate [00:59:06] Yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities between ministry and law enforcement in a way. I mean, you're in both of them. You're you're serving people. You're showing up on the scene and you're trying to help people. I mean, people come to you at their darkest times, right? I remember a minister, you know, like years ago when students now are dealing with suicidal thoughts or I'm you know, as the pastor and I was responsible for calling the appropriate people, I'm calling law enforcement, or so I was always showing up in people at their darkest times and and helping them out right in a spiritual way. And I think law enforcement gives me some of the best feelings of that. You know, you get different calls and you have to show up to people sometimes at their darkest moments and you have to service them. Right. So I think both of them have the servant mindset. So I got into ministry a long time ago after I finished my or when I was close to close to finishing my grad degree. So after my undergraduate degree, let's start with that. After my undergraduate degree, I was looking to potentially work at a nonprofit. So this was in Florida. I was looking for jobs all over and every interview I went on would get to the last step and I just I wouldn't get the job right. And then my church, which I had done an internship at while I was in college, contacted me and said, Hey, we saw you finished your your degree. We have this job for you. I didn't want to go back to church ministry at that time, but I said, Help put this in my back pocket. Thanks for the offer. I reach out to you guys if nothing else works out right. And. And and sure enough, you know, like nothing else was working out, I would just get rejected. I threw rejection at the rejection. And then I was like, you know, Well, I'm probably 23 or 24 at the time and I want to do my grad degree in public administration. So I said, you know, working at the church would give me enough flexibility to also do a grad program. So I'll do that. And then I saw that's what happened that started working on my grad degree and worked at the church. And sure enough, it gave me the flexibility to do both pretty well. And and that's when I also moved to Kansas because of the girl at the time. About a year later, I was still working on my grad degree but still working in church. And when I was nearing the end of my grad degree housing the bulk like, well, I love working on the church but also want to diversify my wife because again, I think, you know, life is short. There's there's a lot of things I want to do, lots of places I want to see. I've been in ministry for, I mean, nine, ten years at the time. I mean, it's been fun. It's been a great ride to do it, you know, full time capacity. But I also think there is some other things other than want to see and want to have my hand in. And a recruiter came via online from the DEA to speak to to my school and want for the Secret Service as well. So I started looking to that route because I knew I wanted to work in the government some way somehow with my public administration degree and and then so I applied for the Secret Service at first and then got interview and I was, oh, that was pretty easy, you know, like because originally I thought to get into the federal world, like, you got to go through all these who's got know somebody. But it was just as simple as applying, right? So I applied I got the interview because of at that time, because I think they had a policy if you had some if you had marijuana for a certain years prior, you couldn't be a part of it. So a year prior, I think I, I bought some edibles in Colorado for my honeymoon and, and but I didn't even have at a ball. I threw it away. And so I had to disclose that in my Secret Service interview. And they said I had to wait some more years before I can apply again and psychological. And then I applied for the DEA and that was going pretty well, you know, got to the final process, got the conditional job offer, letter pass, my medical pass, my background. And then the last step was the polygraph. And I felt the polygraph. And then I applied for and I was like, man, at this point, I just want to get into law enforcement, period. And then so I applied for on for the next police department. Same thing. Got to be in for the polygraph. And I was like, gosh, if these polygraphs all right, I'll try one more time. But for Johnson County Parks Police Department for their polygraph, and then I applied to Q, they didn't polygraph, and I got it. And and so that was it. And I think I mean, by that time, I just wanted to be in law enforcement, period. I think, you know, again, coming from Haiti to which there wasn't a sense of safety and there wasn't a sense of of. Being able to go home and feeling like I'm your life was going to get taken. I love the confidence that I have whenever. Either firefighter or police officer showed up on the scene immediately will make me calm. Right. Whether that's in the U.S. or or Haiti. And and I wanted to provide that same thing to other people. You know, I think whenever you're warned badge and you show up on scene, people automatically feel a little bit more at ease. And in the same token, you know, I think there's coming from Haiti, I think there was some, you know, serious crimes over there, person crimes to which, you know, homicides and all those things. I want to see justice be done, you know, especially in those cases. And, you know, being able to to find the bad guy or track them down. It's almost a game of chess, right. Because I think investigating crimes is know a game of chess, trying to put pieces together. There's some smart people out there, you know, that do bad things. I want to be smarter. I want to put the pieces together to be able to find them. So I think there's there's there's some fulfillment fulfillment I get professionally and organizationally in law enforcement that I don't think I would get it anywhere else. So, yeah, it says or it scratches my itch professionally for sure. 

Chris [01:05:16] Yeah, and that makes sense. I hadn't thought about how. Talking about being like that, pastoral quality of taking care of people and providing for them and supporting them. Because like you said, you're a shepherd and you're shepherding that flock. Being a pastor and then transitioning over to law enforcement, there is a lot of. Those same qualities. But you have even better, maybe not better, different types of resources to provide that solace and. Comfort in a different situation. 

Nate [01:05:51] Oh yeah. And even helps minister out a lot. So example is this. Um. So in terms of relating to new people, you know, outside of the church walls, when I say when I go somewhere, I see I'm a pastor, there's not really much, you know, It's like, Oh, cool, good to see you, man. You know, But as, as in law enforcement, I think, you know, using saying, hey, I'm a law enforcement officer, it gets you farther with people. I think people are a little bit more intrigued. And so it starts some interesting conversations. So honestly, for me, it's been able to it's benefit in ministry for me just because it gets me into more places, I mean, more access to people, which just as a pastor, I wouldn't have access to. So yeah. 

Chris [01:06:42] Yeah. And also that fact of Haiti, the whenever you were a kid around that time to where safety wasn't taken for granted for and it wasn't provided it makes sense how it would mean a lot to provide that to others. So hearing that answer in the way you communicated, that made a lot of sense to me, putting those pieces together. Now you are failing polygraphs left and right. Well, that's right. What's going on there? 

Nate [01:07:16] I honestly don't know. You know, so for example, for not going to disclose much in polygraphs because you do sign a non-disclosure agreement for them. But in officer, for example, for first polygraph, you know, I spy on terrorism. You know, um, it's said that I the question regarding national security terrorism, I, I just didn't do good at it and I didn't understand. I was on the truth. I wasn't a terrorist. And, you know, I think so, RC, I couldn't tell you what it was. And the second one was a second one I felt was about undeterred, serious crimes and drugs. I'd been pretty upfront about many serious crimes that I was involved in or or my drug usage. I mean, to the point where I told somebody that, hey, I had an edible and I did or like or I bought an edible and threw it away, you know, and I was comfortable with the results of walking away, not getting the job. So I was in line. So so I just don't know. Maybe it's something in my with my nerves or whatever it is. I could not tell you to be honest. But I also do know the statistics of people filing polygraphs for different agencies is also pretty high. And I remember I had a somebody tell me who was law enforcement officer who said, oh, yeah, I completely lied in my polygraph. And they passed, you know, so. Right. So I don't know if it's an exact science or I think either either you you're a lucky person who passes it or you're not. And I just have it. So, yeah. 

Chris [01:09:02] As any part of you gone home and looked at YouTube videos, how to pass polygraph. 

Nate [01:09:07] No, I mean, I looked up. I looked up, you know, just polygraph like rates or discussions about polygraph, but not how to how to pass them or how to treat the system. I mean, for all my polygraphs, I just went in there and follow the instructions thoroughly. I wasn't really like trying to, you know, like squeeze my cheeks together or anything like that. So, no, I again, I think either you're lucky or you're not. Either you're you're doing good or not. And I don't think the examiners disclosed everything fully to you either. So, yeah, I don't know. I would have to become a polygrapher myself. Sometimes I'm like, maybe I should just go to a polygraph school and become an polygrapher. And so I can, you know, like, fully understand what happened and what, like, what's going on, you know? 

Chris [01:09:56] Yeah. So, and you can if you were polygraph or school, you could lean over while you're getting your polygraphs, Right. Hey, that's actually da da da da da da. 

Nate [01:10:05] Exactly. Exactly, exactly. 

Chris [01:10:07] And not to say the YouTube thing about how to pass polygraph as if we want to take advantage of the system. But it's this idea of there seems to be a certain way in which those polygraphs are read and those polygraphs are triggered. And it's not 100% the most reliable, Right? 

Nate [01:10:28] Yeah, I mean, it's not admissible in court, you know, but I think it's something that, you know, law enforcement agencies have used for a long time. Some law enforcement agencies are staying away from it, but some of them have just stuck with it. So I think, you know, if you want to get to know the full scope of somebody, I think background investigation just. Does exactly just that. You know, I think there's two understood to have something that can actually tell us somebody is lying or not. That sounds pretty far fetched to me. I think as human beings, we're pretty smart, but we're not mind readers. There's just no way that you could hundred percent quantify or put a science to when somebody is lying or whatever. They're telling the truth. I think there's things you could notice here in their body language and all that, but to have a machine that says, Yep, that was a liar, nope, that was in a lie, that's very far fetched for me. 

Chris [01:11:20] Mm hmm. And the fact that with polygraphs, they're looking at that variation between your standard, right? Your baselines. And if someone were to ask me questions about terrorism, I'm sure I would have a response. That's pretty visual, right? Because. You stress yourself out enough when you go in and you go get a polygraph? I've never had one, so I'm kind of speaking as an armchair expert here. But just that idea of, all right, I'm sitting down, I got this thing here. You always hear about it being a lie detector. I've heard a really did. I don't know if I heard it from you, but this story. No, I did hear from you of this men's group using polygraphs on one another. 

Nate [01:12:06] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a friend who was part of a men's group. And I mean, the point of the men's group is, I mean, it's a great concept, You know, it's to be free from sexual addiction. And, uh, and, you know, they, they polygraph you, um, as a way to, you know, to see if you've actually if you've been keeping your end of the deal of being sexually free and maintain accountability. 

Chris [01:12:32] Yeah. 

Nate [01:12:32] And I just wonder if they share those results, you know, with your significant other. 

Chris [01:12:37] That isn't the group for, you. 

Nate [01:12:38] Know. You know, Exactly. It's just like. Yeah, no, it's on my wife's or the polygraph results of my. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's crazy. 

Chris [01:12:48] You'd be failing all the poly. 

Nate [01:12:49] Oh, my gosh. And you're like. 

Chris [01:12:52] I'm telling the truth. And they're like, No. 

Nate [01:12:56] Yeah. Yeah. Have you watched porn in the past week? It's a no, no. Yes. No, no, no. 

Chris [01:13:04] They're all looking at the polygraph. Reading? 

Nate [01:13:06] Yep. Yeah, They're just spikes all the way through. Yeah. 

Chris [01:13:11] If you were to. Do it again. Do you think you would get straight involved into law enforcement? If, you know, like if the polygraph works. 

Nate [01:13:23] So. I couldn't get involved in law enforcement until 2020. That's when I became a citizen of the United States. So most law enforcement agencies require you to be a citizen. So even if I wanted to, I don't think I could have gotten involved in law enforcement before that. Yeah. And as I said, you know, I think life is is short. Life is awesome. Life is cool. There's lots of things, people opportunities out there. Now, don't be limited to one thing. And and yeah, so I thoroughly enjoyed my life and the trajectory of my life, the things I've got to do, people I've gotten to met. And I know that this is just the beginning of it all. And there's a lot more to do as long as God gives me more days on the earth. And if he doesn't, then that's that's cool, too. So. Yeah. 

Chris [01:14:18] So what's next? What do you want to do? 

Nate [01:14:21] You know, I mean, again, I mean, professionally, I'm really enjoying more enforcement. I enjoy the crimes. You know, I've been a first responder, but I also really enjoy, like, putting pieces together and different crimes. I've gotten to work so far and I've been able to track people down, being able to put the pieces together. So I think, you know, I'd really like this sounds weird, but, you know, like homicides or or things probably a little bit more, more, more serious crimes. It'd be pretty fascinating to put the pieces together on that. And, you know, a lot of those investigations will take will take years, you know, to solve. And I'm in it for the long haul. So I think it would be a really fulfilling feeling to be able to put pieces together on a serious crime that occurs. And so I think just growing in the law enforcement field gets me more people see more places in the world, build community, have a home base, build friendships. So yeah, I think and continue finding new foods to enjoy. 

Chris [01:15:28] What's that? Whenever I hear you talking about solving crimes and being a detective, I'm thinking of Sherlock Holmes. 

Nate [01:15:35] And Sherlock Holmes. 

Chris [01:15:35] Yeah, I'm thinking of Tom the Hardy Boys. Mm hmm. Is you work with detectives. So as an officer, what's your role in solving the crime? 

Nate [01:15:46] So cool thing that we get give being a small department. I have University of Kansas is we have two detectives. I mean, they kind of let us work our are crimes to the end. You know typically other law enforcement agencies as as the responding officer you want to protect the scene. You want to make sure you do all the preliminary work to pass on to detectives. So investigate. Right. But I think with us being a small agency like, um, I get to follow my leads all the way through, I get so I'm now like, we're not getting a bunch of serious crimes, right? We're not getting many search crimes at all. But nevertheless, the crimes that we do get, they do give us the freedom and initiative to follow them all the way through unless we need help, which we can ask for. So I do really enjoy that. About just being a part of a small department is stuff I'm working on, you know, could, you know, could take you out of state, of course. And that we're not chasing people are certainly so it's nothing serious but you know we could things oh wow. Like this person is possibly out of state over here and then calling different places or businesses to interview people. So it's fun in the sense I think they give us a lot of freedom to do all that stuff. So and sometimes it just takes one thing to crack the code and sometimes that, you know, you're just exhausting all your leads. I mean, it's pretty entrepreneurial in the sense that you're you're creating something out of nothing and you're trying to put all the pieces together and sometimes you get lucky. They get it and sometimes you don't. And it could be something as simple as like a leaving the scene accident, right? You know, like trying to find out who is this person that had this person's car that left the scene. We have cameras, but because you have a camera doesn't mean you have a name. So now you got to try that camera down to find a name. You got to trade the car down, get a name. You got to call a business to find out, hey, does this person work here? Or hey, was a witness that works in this place. So you're constantly like looking at moving pieces or trying to get creative to see where you could build more and more lead that could take you to where you want to go. So it's fascinating. 

Chris [01:18:05] There's so many different shows. I thought Scooby Doo. 

Nate [01:18:09] And Scooby Doo. 

Chris [01:18:10] And then Brooklyn Nine-Nine. 

Nate [01:18:12] Brooklyn Nine-Nine is a good one. There's some good ones out there you haven't thrown out, you know, like The Rookie is a great one. The Wire. The Wire is another good one. Have you ever seen Graceland? Hmm, Graceland is a great one. I mean, it's about like this house in which they put, I think like six or seven people from different agencies. You got a couple of FBI guys, a couple of ATF guys and a DEA girl and a Customs and border agent. So all these different people and they're in this house and, you know, in California and they're investigating in different crimes and they help each other out in this sense that they're using their different resources. You know, DEA agents are professionals, you know, and drugs, customs and border agents are are really good at seeing things that are coming across the border. So what I mean, and I think that's that's cool. That's what it's about in law enforcement helping each other out have getting different agencies involved because it really is a teamwork effort to solve a lot of these crimes. And a lot of them you find that, you know, a lot a lot of serious crimes. You find that there were multiple agencies involved in helping another one out to solve these crimes. So it's a team work bonds you create, you know, Wagner and mission together. It's pretty cool. So I think there's a lot of parts in law enforcement that that really give you a sense of of accomplishing a mission that you can't get anywhere else. But yeah. 

Chris [01:19:49] Do you feel scrutinized being a cop? 

Nate [01:19:52] Um, personally, you know, like, I'll keep up with stuff in the media, but like, have I ever. No driving around and patrol car, you know, smile or flip you off, but you don't see that stuff personally. Or if you do, it's not the job for you personally. I mean, plus we're in Lawrence, Kansas, or weren't Kansas in general. I think Kansas is pretty friendly to law enforcement. So personally, no, You know, but I keep up with the media stuff and I see in different places how that can affect people. But I mean, ultimately, I think you integrity matters, you know? So I think each law enforcement officer has to make a commitment to have integrity, to constantly work in themselves. Work on their biases and all that. And I think if you do that, you'll be all right. You know, I think some people. Some people. Yeah. Yeah, That's all I have to say about that. 

Chris [01:20:49] It seems like the role of law enforcement, particularly when you're front facing being a police officer, it's so important to know how to talk to people, how to interact with people. And that's why I think that or not. That's why one of the reasons why I think your ministry background carries over so well is when you see you talk about how you pay attention to the media and you keep up with stuff that happens and you'll see an individual who happens to be a law enforcement officer get put in a situation or put themselves in a situation to where things could have been handled much better. And at the root of that is that person didn't have what proper decision making or who. There's a lot of nuance there, right, because we don't exactly know all of the context. But what we do know is that having the ability and the knowledge of communicating and talking with people. Is a big determinant of being a. Officer of integrity. 

Nate [01:21:59] Yeah. Yeah. I think. And I never went on Monday quarterback anything. You know I'm not going to, you know, because I think sometimes, especially in videos, I see things happen so fast or they evolve so quickly that, you know, I think people just rely on their best decision making abilities. But I do think, you know, I think like a lot of things have helped me out in being from Haiti. You know, I've seen a lot of dramatic things seeing dead body pretty young. You know, I've seen guns being pulled out of people or so I've seen a lot of crazy things already. So now that I'm numb to things are not that I walk around without with with without fear into certain things, but I've seen a lot of things. I think that helps me out a lot. I think, you know, again, like like you said, I think being in ministry helps me to de-escalate situations a lot. I think it helps me too. You know, like I think a smile goes a long way. You know, I think, you know, especially when you're carrying a uniform, you got got a badge, you got a gun. I could be intimidating walking into any situation. So try and diffuse that with a smile or reassurance helps a lot. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I think a lot of things help me out. I think every officer or law enforcement person has different things in their two bags. And mine just so happened to be that, you know, I'm a kid who moved from Haiti, who saw a lot of things at a young age, who saw a lot of law enforcement misconduct. And Haiti now most of us have been in ministry. So my tool bag is has helped me a lot. And I'm sure every law enforcement has their tool bag that's helped them a lot to. 

Chris [01:23:51] As far as the tool bag goes, What are you thinking about at next? What's. 

Nate [01:23:56] Yeah. So right now I'm working on a second undergraduate degree in information technology. You know, some some crimes that, you know, I think will we'll get or we investigate will be like scams, you know, or so. I mean, I think cyber crimes are going to grow a lot in the next few years and even serious crimes are going to have some kind of link to cyber. So I think being able to understand understand that realm of computers and and crimes in there, if they can get a degree in that and understand it, that will help me a lot and will be my tool bag. 

Chris [01:24:36] Yeah, that's such a good. Move because you see blockchain and cryptocurrency and this idea of. The dark web or. Like you said, just something as simple as a link that people get in the email to claim their Amazon gift card. Yeah, they didn't realize they had. And then once they claim it, they realize, oh no, it's not legit. 

Nate [01:25:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, again, I think, you know, like, if you can follow the money, you know, especially serious crimes can follow the money. You can. You can solve a lot. Mm hmm. 

Chris [01:25:17] Do you think that. Your future is going to. Mhm. Have some sort of intersection with this. For instance, whenever you're on the job, you can't. Exactly. I know you tell people that you're involved in ministry sometimes and. It can be difficult to fuze this idea of like a faith or a religion and occupation. How have you done that? What are your thoughts on that? Um, do you feel like if someone is really active and involved in church that that's something they should be telling their coworkers? Um. It's a complicated situation, right? 

Nate [01:26:10] Yeah. I mean, I think ultimately, as you. I I'm pretty lucky in the sense that, you know, I can say, hey, I'm a pastor, you know, and I got this part time gig that I do. I'm a pastor. I think that always, like, fascinates people. Oh, you're a pastor. Okay. Tell me more about that. So that gives me a lot. But ultimately, I think as you build relationships with people wherever you at, whether it's you were in school, whether you're a salesman, whatever it is, you know, you're building a friendship. And if you're interested in people, you ask them about their life and they'll ask you about yours. And, you know. Intertwining your your faith in that is a big part of it. So I always want to carry my testimony with me. I always want to carry, you know, how God's work in my life. It just so happens for me, it makes a little bit easier. But I can also, like a pastor makes it pretty open. And I think people have a lot of questions about that. But if that wasn't the case, I think I'd still try to look for ways to talk about my faith as I build friendships with people or see things, I would intrigue them to get them to ask more questions about it. Because I think ultimately that's the as a Christ follower, I think that's the calling that we have. Rights is as we go, we're making disciples. We're not like waiting for people to come to us, but in our work and different people that we're interacting with, we're we're sharing the good news and as we're going. So I think it's an active thing, it's a daily thing, and that you can't be shy about, and you just got to put it out there and see people's people's reactions one way or the other. What's the worst that could happen, right? I mean, people in the past we're facing are people currently in different environments or different parts of the world are facing persecution for their faith. We live, I think, in know in a country where I don't think you're going to get you're not going to get put in jail for for sharing your faith with your coworkers. It might be a chill out, whatever it is. Right. But at your discretion, I think it's just thinking what's the worst that could happen? And I think for me, it's pretty important to intertwine a lot of parts of my lives, of my life together, so that it's like a pretty fluid oil machine. You know, I work in the city that I'm in. I go to church in the city that I'm in, which is pretty cool. I have friends in the city that I'm in. So for me, it's it's awesome because it's easy. I'll meet people at church that, you know, maybe are pulled over. I remember I went to do jury duty and then the person I sat next to was like, Hey, you pulled me over a couple weeks ago. It's like, Hey, what's up? How's it going? You know, I, I didn't give her a ticket, so it made a little bit less awkward. But you're constantly seeing people whom you're having interactions with and your church and your local Walmart or whatever it is. So that's pretty fun for me. So I want to always entwine those worlds together and let people know about my faith, because ultimately I think people are looking for for hope, they're looking for substance and nothing provides or my belief is nothing provides that better than than the Christian faith. And then the local church. The local church is the best at providing providing Jesus on which provides a substance and non flaky relationships for people if they're doing it right and all that. So we've got a good thing, I think, and it's our job to get it out there to people whether they know it or not. You know, and most people I meet and I talk to, I could see we're all looking for something, right? Even I mean, I'm a Christ follower and I'm fulfilled in a lot of ways. But, you know, I know that there's something still missing because Jesus hasn't come back here and I still live here on Earth. So there's this longing inside of me that's constantly trying to to get out. There's this itch inside of me that's causing, trying to be scratched and always be there up until the day Christ comes back. Nothing but somebody that doesn't know Christ. Oh gosh, that long is times 1000. So I'm always seeing that need in people's eyes, always aware that they're looking for something. They just don't know what it is yet. And maybe a simple, Hey, I'm a pastor intrigues them, so I kind of find out more about that. 

Chris [01:30:54] So yeah, I. It makes perfect sense. This idea of. People need hope. They can get really stressed out. This is totally off topic, but I was talking to someone last night and they told me the average interest rate for a mortgage is 7% and I'm thinking 7% and that's high. And then people's rents are raising, too. So they're like, Oh, my rent's too much and they buy a home. But house prices are up and then mortgage interest rates are up. And that's just one thing, just financial stress. But here's something and I've been thinking about it lately regarding faith. We can always cut this. We can cut anything out of here. But so the idea of how the thing that. I think historically within. My experience as a Christian, I have never really been that concerned about. I'm not concerned. Maybe that's not the right word, but, um. Not really dedicated that much time to the concept of how right and the. Idea being because. There was heaven. And it just seems like a natural. Binary. Like like it seems like, hey, there's good, there's evil, there's light, there's darkness, there's heaven, there's hell. But once I actually get to the point to where it's like, okay, if someone doesn't confess belief in Jesus or if they don't like, accept Jesus in their heart as their Lord and Savior, then they're going to go to hell if they die. And the idea of we have like if we read. I don't know if you've seen, like an article that's like Christian attend or church should Protestant church attendance is shrinking or like all of this different stuff talking about how less people are going to church and maybe from that an idea is less people are Christians maybe. Or with social media and with the internet, there's so many, so many different ideas. So it could get to a point to where like less and less people are identifying that Jesus is like their savior, meaning more and more people are going to hell. How do you what do you think about that like? Because that's something that I have a hard time with, this idea that and you've heard it before, um, people say, well, the billions of people who are Muslim, who are content with their principles, who've watched their parents and grandparents build lives that are principle lives, and they've built legacies. Within the Islam tradition, them living their principle life. Subjects them to hell, since it's not Christianity. How do you. Reason with that. How do you maneuver all of those thoughts? 

Nate [01:34:17] Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question. I think there's there's a lot of ways to dissect that or to think about that. I think that for me, it's very easy. I naturally, you know, I naturally stay in my lane. You know, I naturally pick a mission and I run hard after it. And because of that, um, I, I have a lot of friends that are very intellectual. I have a lot of friends that are very, like, I can think of, like, people that know better. And they question everything. I think that's almost like gifting, you know, they like men, like. Talking about defending your faith. You know, Like who? Like, how do you know that Jesus is real? Show me in history where that happens. Then if you. If you succeed of that and I'll follow Christ. I know some people know a lot of people that have come to faith because of those questions. Right. Because we've asked the questions. There was a theologian that was smart enough to kind of put those pieces together for them to realize that that was my story. Right. I think for me, it was much more like, man, you know, I've I read the Bible like, hey, this is awesome. I've been looking for a cause to give my life to a long time. And there there's nothing. I'm like, I want to die for this thing, right? And this was the first and only thing that I think I. I was willing to die for. And it just made sense in my head as far as, like, I'm not. I won't be. I'm not pretending in the sense that I'm not a theologian, in the sense that I can dissect every part of the Bible to you and show you how in history this made sense. It's just not my story. So my gifting is just not my lane, you know? But there's a lot of people out there that had that gifting. And but for me, it just something in my heart made sense. And I was like, I want to give my life to this. And one way or the other, your life needs meaning. And and for me, I found meeting through the gospel, I found peace, I found belonging. I found all these things, substance that I was looking for through through Christ. Right. And thinking about, you know, the concept of hell are people that are going to hell. Because I believe that if you only wait to heaven. Is Jesus, right? There's there is no other way. And that's what I believe. And that's what I'm saying that I'm willing to die for. As far as what comes with that afterwards or what that might mean for different people. From Yemen mission to share the good news and share what I found. If somebody says to me and says, Hey, how can you see this best? I have two shares is is really my testimony. And if they don't receive that, you know, there's not much I could do from there. I've shared my peace and I think I can walk away in peace knowing that I shared my peace. So I think the short answer for me is I think I recognize my lane. And it wasn't I was I'm not this big theologian. I'm not knowledgeable in history not to put all the pieces together for people, but I think there's people in the body of Christ that are and I would point them towards that direction if they need all those answers. But I think the best I could do is is pray for them and be a friend to them. You know? So in the same token, I'm pretty good about not giving enough judgmental vibe. You know, if that's the lane you want to go to, man, you know, I'm praying for you and there's these resources out there. I can guide you too. But yeah, I think I think that's all I got to say about that. Sorry. I didn't have much for you. 

Chris [01:38:13] No, no, no. You had a lot for me. And I think a lot of people have a lot about it. And that may be a reason why I feel like I need to have a lot. Because if we reason with this term of hell is what burning and gnashing of teeth and we think about how hell is the absence of God and God is love and everything good comes from above, which would mean hell would be the absence of everything good. It's. Bleach. Right. And it's a terrible conceptualization. Whenever we imagine someone being there for eternity. And I think that that. That process can give a lot of discomfort knowing that, like you said, you can only share your testimony, right? And then you can pray for the people. But with mass media now, we can share testimony to a whole bunch of people, which would be like, okay. Like, if I can only share my testimony, at least I can get on YouTube and do it to a million people, and maybe I could do that every single day to millions and millions of different people with the hope that maybe 8 billion people and it's like, well, other people can be doing it so you don't have to do it all for yourself. And it's it's a tough thing to figure out what the consequences of the existence of hell are. And I've heard people have quotes like if that Penn and Teller, Penn and Teller, two different people, one of them was a really big atheist and he has this famous quote saying, If Christians truly believed. The concept of hell, then they would do every single thing they absolutely could to prevent every single person. It'd be every waking minute and out of their life, Right, Because it would be so terrible. And then that puts a lot of like, pressure on us. It's like, oh, man. Like, you know, when you put it like that. That's true. Like, what can we do? But then I feel uncomfortable whenever I go to churches and they talk about how a lot you know, I like going to churches where they talk about what we can do with our talents and they talk about hope and they talk about light and all that stuff is really good. But that that's just one of those things that I have a hard time with. And that's not to say that it just discredits, in my opinion, the whole structure or anything like that. It's just. Something that. Yeah, I'll think. 

Nate [01:41:05] About. I mean, I think ultimately we are the body of Christ. So it takes a team and I think part of being a team is doing your part, you know. Um, so I love that statement because it puts so much conviction. But I think if, you know, as a Christ follower, you're, you're going to bed and just like burning with conviction or that you're saying like, man, I just didn't do enough today. I think you got to have a little grace in yourself, I think, Are you putting too much false weight on yourself? Think you're May you do your best. You take care of the people around you that that you encounter people in your workplace. You know, I think on me some Christians that are just dying to go to these other countries to do so much for the gospel, but they can't even, you know, keep be faithful at their job and and do their best there. And I think that's just a false conviction. And so overall, I think, you know, we are the body of Christ. It's a team and every team member needs to do their part where they've been stationed at. And so that just means being faithful with what you have. And by doing that, I think you're fulfilling God's calling on your life. If you maximize the place that you that you've been called to and you just keep adding on to it, little by little, you're doing your part because ultimately it's the Holy Spirit that that convicts people that does the work. I think all we would call it to do is to be faithful with what we've been given and where we're at. And by fulfilling that, I think we're fulfilling our calling. Yeah. 

Chris [01:42:56] Yeah, yeah. It's. Like you said, faithful being faithful and a premise of faith is that idea of believing and. There are things that whenever I'm pressed on them, I I'm still reasoning myself, you know, like like that conversation of how or different. Topics that seem to be a center of conversation just because it's it's not clear cut. It's it's really hard to navigate and there's so much human context going on. And, um, that that can be unsettling for me because I like to, like you said, intellectual. Right. And, and like to have good answers and good questions and. But one thing that I take heart in is that there's that verse in Ephesians and it's. Talking about how it's not going to be the eloquence of me, but it's going to be the Holy Spirit. And if we truly believe that God is as great as He is, then it should be no problem for the power of God to. Communicate whatever it may be to however many people you know. Yeah. Um, so that that is a good thing, but. That's one thing that's tough. If you were to add anything to the Bible, what would you add? 

Nate [01:44:30] Oh, gosh, that's heresy. That's a trick question. I mean, the Bible is amazing how it is. Nothing is to be added to it. 

Chris [01:44:39] Are you sure you want to add something like. Blessed are those who play video games, you know. 

Nate [01:44:45] No, man, It's. It's already got the food thing in there. Yeah. So if that's to. 

Chris [01:44:50] Drink and be married. Yeah. That's all. 

Nate [01:44:52] I need. 

Chris [01:44:54] Yeah, that's, that's how, you know, I'm starting to deviate to different questions here. Anything you feel like we haven't hit? I imagine there's tons of stuff, but. 

Nate [01:45:03] Yeah, there's tons of stuff. You know, I'd love to come back and interview you. Mm hmm. That would be interesting. 

Chris [01:45:11] Any questions? 

Nate [01:45:12] You got any questions for you? 

Chris [01:45:14] Yeah. 

Nate [01:45:14] Well, So how long have you been married for? 

Chris [01:45:16] I've been married since 4th of July 2021. 

Nate [01:45:20] So it's about a year and, uh, three months. You're in three months, Men. What have you Was. Was some of the amazing things that you've learned while being married. 

Chris [01:45:30] I've learned that I really like my wife. Yeah, She's super cool. She's super funny, loves to have fun. Like you said your wife does. I think that. I have learned. I'm trying to think of a novel takeaway here that can contribute stimulating conversation. Really, a big thing I've learned is how to have fun with my wife. The. Timeline you give of watching TV and eating new food and talking about work. You know, we're doing that as well. And. We are. Navigating different challenges together. And we have different strengths, but our strengths are fairly similar. Like, we love talking to people and she's really good at talking to people. But then. We. Deal with different like our strengths are similar, our burdens are a bit different. You know, she would tell you that sometimes she will get anxious at different times and sometimes I will get stressed out. So learning how to make each other better in those instances has been something that I've been learning a lot. I remember when we were doing premarital counseling, the. Pastor we were working with was like, Hey, you have to assume the best of each other and you have to bring the best of each other out. And that's something that I've been trying to get better at. Um, and hope to get really good at. Yeah. You know, I want to be an awesome husband. I growing up, I always. Thought about that title Husband. And it was like, just like whenever you're in school and you can't wait to get that title of graduate, it's like in the game of life. There are a few different titles. One's husband and one's father and grandfather and they mean so much. And then once you actually get it, you're like, Oh boy, You know what I mean? Like, now I have to figure out how to be a good husband. Yeah. So now I'm trying to be a great husband. 

Nate [01:47:44] And that's. That's awesome. Mm hmm. That's awesome. 

Chris [01:47:50] When are you going to get your podcast equipment? 

Nate [01:47:53] My podcast. 

Chris [01:47:54] Yeah. Don't you think you'd be able to put an awesome one on? 

Nate [01:47:57] You know, the work that it takes to record edits is just not in the works, man. I'll just be honest. I'm pretty picky about things that I give myself over. I got really. I got to really love something. Yeah. To put myself to it. Like, I have a friend who. Who does. Or he did videos a lot. Like he had a couple of YouTube videos that went viral. Right. I was like, That's so cool, man. That's so cool. But he'd tell you, he'd put in like 25, 30 hours a week recording everything, editing everything. And I was like, Man, that sounds so stressful. But, I mean, he just loved it. It was awesome. I don't think I love I love I would love anything that much. But actually, that's that's a life. There's things I love that put that much time into. But I mean, as far as like podcast goes, or being a YouTuber goes, you know, I just, I just don't have any aspirations for that. Mm hmm. But like, it's one of those things that it's like, you know, I enjoyed having him as a friend because whenever I needed videos done, he was the guy to go to. 

Chris [01:49:11] That's all. 

Nate [01:49:12] And same thing with with you. You know, if I, if I want to get in podcasts and experience the fun of podcasts, I've got a podcast friend, So why go and start something new? That's one thing you learn by me is there's I love writing on people's stuff. If somebody has already got something that they enjoy and they're good at, I just jump on that. I don't need to recreate the wheel or start my own thing for it. Same thing with church, church involvement or whatever it is. There's not many things I'm thinking of right now that I'm like, really would want to start my own thing in this specifically, probably later on in life when I'm like, retired or something. I don't know. 

Chris [01:49:51] But yeah, yeah, you would definitely be good at it. But that's just because you're good with people and you are a bit creative. But my metric of success, one of my metrics is success. This is going to sound funny is to where I'm not just having people on my podcast that go to the same church as me. Yeah, you know, I want. 

Nate [01:50:14] To get out there a little bit. 

Chris [01:50:15] Definitely and get out there. And it's lately I've been that guy who's been talking about a podcast and. 

Nate [01:50:23] You have I have some people that I know that would love to do this. 

Chris [01:50:28] Really, you. 

Nate [01:50:28] Know, because I think this is pretty fun because you get to spend like an hour plus talking about yourself and you get to everybody likes to be asked questions and share by themselves. So I have like I for sure have some friends that are not part of the church that I think would love this. Yeah. And especially this this Seraph you've got going on. It's a roundtable set up. You know, the sun's nice, It's a quiet setting, it's pretty relaxing, and you can sip and sip on a drink, Mr. Tito's and whatnot. And just talk. 

Chris [01:51:01] If you want. Tito's. We got it. And I have the AC off because. 

Nate [01:51:05] Oh, you do? I don't even notice to get it. 

Chris [01:51:07] Which is great because it provides interference with that noise. But that's the goal is to be able to branch out and. I have different people on right now. I consider myself a rookie at this. Yeah, like I wanted to. You hear those really good podcasts and you just imagine the room and it being such a fun time. 

Nate [01:51:30] So that's the one thing I've been trying to understand about podcasting. I guess, you know, podcast that I've listened to personally have been like specific topics I've been interested in. Yeah. And just look something up. And then the others I hear like you're just like this famous person that's already famous and they start a podcast cause they already got some clout. 

Chris [01:51:49] Right. 

Nate [01:51:49] So how does this podcast with all the work is the same thing as YouTube. You kind of get hits on it, like, how do you build up a following, build up people that are listening? 

Chris [01:52:02] Yeah, I think part of it is like YouTube. You're creating content and you are trying to. Out of all of the content out there, you're trying to get people to pick yours. And out of all the podcasts out there, you're trying to get people to have your podcast on the car speaker or in the AirPods. 

Nate [01:52:20] So it takes some marketing and branding. 

Chris [01:52:22] It's got to take all of that. My altruistic thinking, and I'm sure someone would hear this and be like. You're going to do. Terrible. But it's this idea of my metric of success. I mentioned it's interviewing somebody outside the church. That's one of them. Another one of my metrics success, really, the underlying the thesis, the cornerstone for it all is that I get better interacting with people. And I didn't want it to be an interview like podcast. I wanted it to be more of a conversation. I didn't want it to be boom, scripted questions. So like whenever I'm sit down with you, I feel kind of a responsibility and a burden because I know you have so much to bring to the table and figuring out, okay, how do I get the best out of Nate? Because I know that he is part of the best. What does that look like? And like a I have a canned questions and stuff, but for the most part it's trying to navigate that and I know I will get better at that. And that's one of my main motivations is because my passion is talking to people. I want to be one of the best communicators in the world, and I know that that's relative. And different people communicate differently, different languages. Some people don't speak their sign language. That is nonverbal language. It's you name it. Um, so for me. The way that I would succeed is. Having that intrinsic knowledge like, Oh, hey, Chris, you're getting better or you're working on a project. 

Nate [01:54:02] But atcha that makes a lot of sense and makes a lot of sense. I get it. So as you're doing this thing, you're also growing and in a specific trait that you're trying to improve in. 

Chris [01:54:15] Yeah, like I would I would love to have you and 15 guests from now because I feel like I will have much more to bring to the table and it will be like showcasing you better. I think that we all have value and the goal is to get around people that remind us of our value and remind us how much we're worth and our gifting and everything that we have. But whenever you think about a podcast can be big. A lot of times it is the famous person and then they have other famous people on it. Then they share stories that are pretty commonplace, but it just so happens to be the people in those stories are also famous. Yeah, right. So there's celebrity and they have that wonder and it's like, what food does Kim Kardashian eat, you know? Yeah, no talent. But a lot of people would watch that video. And same thing with podcasting. These famous people, they have their stories and they tell those stories and then they leave. And you do have those niche podcasts. A lot of them are like narrated monologues and but then you also have the podcast where people show up and you have a conversation. So like I'm able to have a conversation with you that I can't have with my previous guests because of your story and because of your profession and because of what you're really good at and your ability to talk. 

Nate [01:55:37] An existing relationship to. 

Chris [01:55:40] Right. Existing relationship, Right? Like you. Even if I am not presenting the questions the best or like you're able to work with that. And we already have established things like I had any on first. We have a great existing relationship, but I'm still able to have a different conversation with her than you and you than her. 

Nate [01:56:04] So I can't wait to hear Annie's podcast. 

Chris [01:56:07] Yeah, she's awesome, bro. She could do. I think she's better than me. She could. She could do this so well if she wanted to. Like, she's really good at attracting people and getting people excited and engaged that sometimes I feel like I lack because I can be a bit more monotone or a bit more dry. Then once you figure out my humor, it's like, okay. 

Nate [01:56:29] Once you figure it out. 

Chris [01:56:30] Yeah, I had this track coach once. I was on the track team for multiple years and whenever I was graduating high school, she wrote in my yearbook, I am so glad I now understand your humor. 

Nate [01:56:43] Yeah. Yeah, I can see that it's you and this other guy friend I have named Max. It's just like it takes a little bit and it takes a little bit, and it's risque because I think your humor is very risky. 

Chris [01:57:00] Mm hmm. 

Nate [01:57:01] It could be either really good or really awkward. 

Chris [01:57:04] And that's the beauty, is that it's all about taking the risk. 

Nate [01:57:09] Yeah, I like that. Like and that's one of my goals. I think when I get older, just say stuff. 

Chris [01:57:15] Right now, do it. Like, that's why I think one of the reasons we get along well is because. One of your main things is you don't want to take yourself too seriously. And part of that is that some of the stuff other people say, they don't take it too seriously. You know, and I get along really well with people like that, not because I don't mean what I say, but sometimes I may mess up and like, that was a hard part of it. Thankfully, Annie is really gracious and she likes to laugh because sometimes maybe I'll try and make a joke that isn't the best. And I'm like, Dang, I should have done better. But the truth is like comedy and making people laugh. It's just like anything else, right? Yeah. You're going to cook a bad meal, you know, You're going to create a really bad piece of art whenever you're first starting, and it takes a while to get good at it. And the tough part is each person's different and we each bring something different to the table. And yeah, I could joke about having diarrhea and you could have had diarrhea all last night and you're like, Man, don't talk about that. 

Nate [01:58:26] Yeah, it took me a while to learn boundaries of jokes because I think, like, there was a period in my life where I was, I would say stuff and it would hit the personal note a little bit too much. And then I think that burned some bridges. Now that I think about it too, which it was like, okay, you know, like this joke would have been great if you didn't go personal with it. And I think the Harper was like, you know, I think is like naturally in ministry, people trust you with personal information, pretty deep stuff. And if you if you're joking about those specific things and to you, it might be like, oh, we're great friends and this is funny. 

Chris [01:59:11] And yeah, right. Like that thing they've been struggling with. And you make a joke about it. 

Nate [01:59:16] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So to me, it took me some maturity, some time to. To know the boundaries of things that. 

Chris [01:59:24] Yeah, yeah. And the truth is, the funniest stuff is the stuff that's, like a little bit in between. Yeah, You know what I mean? And yeah, the hard part is finding that like, what is the in-between and what does that look like? And a way, you know, what isn't in between is whenever you get out of the in between and you're like, oh boy. So a lot of repetitions and it's due to that. It's really important for people to know your heart, right? Yeah. Yeah. And to be kind and to be good and But then take the risk. 

Nate [01:59:58] Yeah, you take the risk. I like that. 

Chris [01:59:59] Like we embrace is we embrace risk. 

Nate [02:00:02] That's a culture point of velocity to which you're attending leadership class. And Chris, I've got to piss, man. 

Chris [02:00:10] Yeah, me too. Okay, well, we're going to wrap it up. Thanks for coming here, do you think? 

Nate [02:00:16] Thanks for having me. This was such a blast, and I have some people I'd love for you to interview as well. And I can't wait to be back on here. 

Chris [02:00:23] Yeah, I'm happy to have you back. And, folks, we will see you next time. 

Nate [02:00:28] See me next time. Oh.