#20 - Annie Miller: Communication Tips for a Healthy and Connected Relationship

Chris Miller: Last left off. Okay.

Annie Miller: Uh huh.

Chris Miller: I was thinking about it the last time we recorded, we were trying to end quickly because our dog was super sick.

Annie Miller: Oh, yeah.

Chris Miller: And immediately after that, we had to take him to the doggie er PO.

Annie Miller: Poor Sonny. And he he's much better.

Chris Miller: He's much better now. And he may pop in the frame. Yeah. Six months later, we bought him well, he went on a vet shopping spree after that. He did.

Annie Miller: He did $700.

Chris Miller: But we were really concerned, so it was worth it.

Annie Miller: And then got inconclusive results, which was a bit frustrating. Which was a bit frustrating. But he got better.

Chris Miller: He bounced back. Well, tell the guests. How have you been since then?

Annie Miller: How have I been? I've been good.

Chris Miller: I said tell the guests Tell the listeners.

Annie Miller: Oh yeah. Isn't that funny? Like, my brain automatically replaced guests with listeners. I didn't even notice that. Mhm. I've been good. I'm happy to be back on Talk to People podcast.

Chris Miller: And has there been something in your head since the last episode that you've said, oh, man, I wish I would have talked about X, or I wish I would have said.

Speaker C: Y.

Annie Miller: You know, at the moment, I can't think of something that I was thinking about retroactively to do in another episode. I'm actually surprised I wasn't jotting down ideas for next appearance. Yeah, no. But I do think often about I want to talk to you I want to turn the tables. I want to talk to you about you're almost six months into this thing, so I'd love for you to give some air time to that, talking about your experience. But in thinking about something I wish I would have talked about or something I would have done differently, I think the thought that's coming to mind right now is that I am learning every single day how to be a better communicator. And I fail a lot. A lot. I think that's an important piece of the puzzle. Like today, I failed quite a few times. Wasn't the best communicator already? Already. And it's only 08:00 a.m. We're just shy at noon.

Chris Miller: No, that's true. And we're constantly getting better.

Speaker C: Constantly.

Annie Miller: And I think that's yeah, it's easy to think about what textbooks say and what theories say and what research says, and all those things are really important. But when it gets down to it, how do you practice that? And implementing that is so important for your relationships. And just the other day, I realized the last week I was a terrible texter, and some text messages went I read them and then even several times I was like, oh, what a nice message. And I got distracted with doing something else. And my rule of thumb is I always go back to it, but there are a few that went a little longer than I like.

Chris Miller: Go ahead. What's your time, your latency expectation for.

Annie Miller: How quickly to text back, uh, how long is too long? We should ask my friend Amy. She was the one who who said to me, you know, Annie, I always know you will respond, and I'm sure there there's been a time where I haven't accidentally to, like, a, uh, quick exchange, but she's very gracious. So the friends on the receiving end of that, they should really be the ones to say, how long is too long?

Chris Miller: A lot of people would identify as bad texters.

Annie Miller: Why do you think that is? Because it's probably the most I'd like to see the numbers on this, but I think it's the most frequently used utilized.

Chris Miller: Utilized form of communication. Yes.

Annie Miller: Well, mode of communication.

Chris Miller: The reason why it's the most utilized, in my opinion, is because it's the easiest and the most low effort, most accessible.

Annie Miller: Oh, for sure. But I completely.

Speaker C: Agree.

Annie Miller: It's, uh, asynchronous, right? But when you get in a flow, it gets pretty close to synchronous. If you're in a really the text exchange, the response is really quick.

Chris Miller: And have you been in those text exchanges where each person is responding super quickly?

Annie Miller: My dad and I, this morning, he was asking me, he said, did you tune into the coronation? And I said, can you believe I actually didn't? And he texted back right away, I actually can't believe that. And then we just kept rolling, rolling, rolling.

Chris Miller: It feels great.

Annie Miller: It feels great. Like, even thinking about it puts a smile on my face, obviously, because it's my dad. But also, especially when you live far away from somebody, the immediacy that texting can bring is fascinating. But then also, it can be very like we were just saying. The bigger question to me is, if it's a mode that we use so frequently, why are so many people so bad at it? And I think there are lots of reasons for that. What do you think one piece is? I think attention spans. We get a text, we see it distracted by something else. That happens to me all the time, right? Or even there have been times admittedly, this is terrible, but I'm talking to somebody. This happened at work, uh, a few weeks ago. I'm talking to somebody, and I get a text, and I look at it, and I read it, and then I interrupt. Not only do I not respond to the text, I interrupt the face to.

Chris Miller: Face that's going on to respond to the text.

Annie Miller: Well, to read it. To read it.

Speaker C: Right.

Chris Miller: You end up not responding to the text, and you end up interrupting.

Annie Miller: Probably sometimes I text back right then and there. But the worst part for me is that I've interrupted that face to face interaction.

Chris Miller: Are you aware of any studies that, uh, look at texting versus talking on the phone versus video chat?

Annie Miller: Yes, we researched that. So I was in basically, like, a digital communication class, digital world. So communicating in the digital world. And we did look at a lot of studies, a lot of times what's used, and actually there are experts that are far more knowledgeable than me on this. But one thing that stood out to me is looking at a mode of communication, a, uh, mediated so, computer mediated communication. So there's some go between looking at factors such as is it synchronous or Asynchronous? What do you mean by that? So synchronous meaning real time, constant flow of communication. So that loop is like this. Whereas Asynchronous, I might send a message to you, but you might not receive it or get back to me for like 3 hours. That would be asynchronous yeah.

Chris Miller: And I think of when you say Asynchronous, I think of online classes, synchronous classes. We're meeting together at, uh, the same time every week.

Annie Miller: That's a good way to put it.

Chris Miller: And everyone's doing it together and then Asynchronous, you can do it on your own time.

Speaker C: Yes.

Annie Miller: So the reason I bring that the synchronous asynchronous up is because there are several factors that researchers look at in terms of that. I don't even want to say computer mediated communication because it's really not I'm going to say digital or more virtual interactions. And FaceTime, FaceTime is great because another cue or another factor is richness with FaceTime, it's synchronous. There's a lot of richness to it. And that you see somebody's face, you see their facial expressions. That's different than talking on the phone. That's synchronous. But you're missing all of the nonverbal cues that you were just talking about. And so FaceTime is actually really neat because it's as close to that in person interaction that I think you can get from talking to people through technology that mhm was relating through technology. Great book by Jeff Hall.

Speaker C: Dr. Jeff hall.

Annie Miller: Dr. Jeff hall legend. Legend, mentor. But going back to the texting thing, why are we bad at it? Attention span. I think one factor that I would love to see in texting, uh, on phones is the ability, like an email, to mark something as unread. So in email, you can go in and read something, and then if you want to go back to it, mark it as unread. I wish we could do that with text messages because you can. You can?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: Uh, how? You just hold it down.

Speaker C: Why?

Chris Miller: Click mark is unread.

Annie Miller: Can I do it right now?

Chris Miller: Go for it.

Annie Miller: Should I try it?

Speaker C: Sure.

Annie Miller: Okay. I looked up if we could do that, and I didn't think you could. Okay, how do I do it?

Chris Miller: Hold it down. Hold the text conversation down. Mhm or slide it. Mark is unread.

Annie Miller: Mark is unread. That's great because then I think most people, if they're like me, are bugged by the little number icon near their messages.

Chris Miller: And you want to get rid of it.

Annie Miller: And you want to get rid of it in order to get rid of it.

Chris Miller: You have to respond.

Annie Miller: You have to respond. And that's just like down to how our brains work with things like that. But also you get a lot of meaning from being able to text people back.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And you said the attention span. Do you think our attention spans are getting worse or do you think there's merit behind that?

Annie Miller: I do think they are getting worse.

Chris Miller: Do you think we could change that?

Annie Miller: I do. I think there are many people I should say this, I think it's plausible to say that, and I think evidence would support that. There is a trend leaning towards shorter attention spans. You laughing at my coffee?

Chris Miller: No. You're just so cute. It's so fun to have you as a podcast guest.

Annie Miller: Thanks, Chris.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Chris Miller: So I get to watch my wife talk and I smile the whole time.

Annie Miller: Oh, you're so cute. Be careful what you wish for. 1st, 3rd time Guests oh yeah.

Chris Miller: You want to come back on for a third time?

Annie Miller: Yeah, I'm signing myself up.

Chris Miller: Okay, you definitely will. As long as you don't become enemies with the producer. Sonny he's the studio mascot. I'm, um, the producer.

Annie Miller: Well, your studio mascots nowhere to be found. Yeah, he does that sometimes. Um, so what I was saying is I do think there's a trend toward shorter attention spans, but I also think that there are many people who are able to through mindfulness, m being more mindful about just spending how we spend time, mindful about engaging with others. So mindfulness is a practice?

Speaker C: Yes.

Annie Miller: But also just the idea of implementing mindfulness into everyday life. I think there are many people who are probably really mindful and are able to bring themselves so much to that present moment that those distractions that other people would fall into, they're able to harness and stay focused.

Chris Miller: That's cool.

Annie Miller: And, uh, that is like talk about social fitness, right? That's a muscle to remind your brain like, nope, got to get back to this conversation. Back to this conversation. Like that is you should have a neuro scientist.

Chris Miller: Scientist on the Lawrence version of Andrew Huberman. Yes. I imagine we have one at Ku. Oh, yeah, I need to look into that.

Annie Miller: Yeah, you should. Because the wiring of the brain is fascinating and the ability to rewire.

Chris Miller: So I've been thinking about this. I was talking to someone who knows a lot about organizational excellence and I was talking to them about the podcast. They shared with me a lot of interdisciplinary approaches, which was good because sometimes I will think of, oh, this podcast is about social fitness. It's about making sure people are equipped to build community, to get better at building great relationships. With that in mind, I'll think to myself, oh, that means I need to have all these communication professionals on. Which is true. I should have a lot of people who are great at communication. But at the same time, I need to have psychologists on who share why it's important. I need to have neuroscientists on yeah. Who share the brain wiring and explain everything that motivates us to have the relationships biologists, mhm, comedians, everybody. Everybody. And use that interdisciplinary approach to create and bolster this whole idea of it's important to be socially fit.

Annie Miller: I love that approach. And also, when you think about, yes, all those different areas of expertise are important in gaining a better understanding of relationships and how to build and maintain relationships. But at the end of the day, all those different types of people you just mentioned, they're all people who are in their own circles, building, maintaining relationships. Because at the end of the day, everybody, every single person has a need to belong. It's universal. So it's cool to think about that way, too. Like, yes, these people are experts in their fields, but also have real life experiences that can shed some light on what it means to talk to people and have relationships.

Chris Miller: And you studied need to belong a little bit.

Annie Miller: I did.

Chris Miller: What do you mean when you say need to.

Annie Miller: Belong? There is a well known theory called need to belong theory. NTB, NTB. Valmeister and Leary.

Chris Miller: What year?

Annie Miller: Oh, I think it's 1990.

Chris Miller: 519 95.

Annie Miller: My birth year is it 1995?

Chris Miller: I don't know. Um, my birth year is no, I.

Annie Miller: Know your birth year is I don't.

Chris Miller: Know about the theory, though.

Annie Miller: Maybe it's 94. I don't know. Whatever. But, um, that theory basically states that every human has a need to belong. So belongingness, the idea of connectedness, how this theory defines it is two dimensions relatedness and interaction. So I'm boiling it down to very simple terms. And this is, like I said, there are other experts who know more about it than I do. But I really was fascinated by the idea that there needs to be a sense of relatedness. So feeling connected close to people, and there needs to be, the theory says repeated interaction. So those two pieces make up belongingness. And what's so cool about this theory is that it's a need. And when you think of something in terms of a need, what do you think, uh, of when you think of needs? Hunger. Hunger.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: What else?

Annie Miller: Safety.

Chris Miller: Safety.

Annie Miller: Social approval. Right. And so think about it in terms of what does it mean to not have those things? In some case, survival.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: If you don't have food, if you don't have water, it is essential. It's essential. And so I was so struck by the idea that belongingness, feeling close, connected to people, talking, literally talking to people, interaction is so vital that the result of not having that is pretty bad.

Chris Miller: And we're seeing that.

Annie Miller: And we're seeing that. So that was really where I fell in love with research. I already was studying communication, but that's where I fell in love with research. Uh, anyhow, I really like that. The idea of belongingness is the underlying foundation of this. But um, of just if you think of any group, any organization, anything that you're a part of with other people, belongingness is at the foundation of that. You're morning soccer league. You all love soccer, but I'm sure it also gives you belongingness, right? Big time.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: Even work. Right? Like, I go to work and I do a job but uh, I also strive for belongingness there and I'm grateful that I feel that sense of belongingness.

Chris Miller: Yeah. We all have a variety of social structures that we can get the belongingness from. Mhm yes. And we can create those just like you did. And that's something that's been weighing on me, is entrepreneurship, innovation. Creativity isn't limited to art and it's not limited to business. It can also be incorporated into bringing people together. Mhm and there are probably a lot of people who would relate to this, but I feel like this is something you're good at snacking bringing people together. And I feel like a lot of the people we get along with are good at it as well. Not everybody, of course, but whenever you're a natural gatherer, or you may not be a natural gatherer, but you can be intentional about initiating. Mhm that is so good, creating that social structure because you need it, but then everybody else needs it. And there may not be someone who's good at it mhm but who can benefit from it.

Speaker C: Totally.

Annie Miller: See, I feel like you're really good at that. You're really good at initiating. You're really good about putting yourself out there to bring people back in. Right. Like talking to somebody new and bringing them into a group. And part, uh, of it for me is I talk about how important belonging this is and how I love people because I do and I love relationships and it's so satisfying. There's a reason that you could have everything perfect in the world, but if you don't have good relationships, you're probably not as happy. I'd rather have, um, not as much material wealth or items, but be really happy with the people that I'm around. M but then again, there's a study about more income, more wealth, gives you the ability to build. Like there's a correlation between those things when you think about like resources. Right? I've got money to travel to go see this friend.

Chris Miller: Yeah, I can make it to your wedding.

Annie Miller: I can make it to your wedding. So that's a piece too, where I don't want to oversimplify it. But something that I almost feel, I guess hypocritical about is that, uh, like I said, I get a lot from relationships and I love building them. But I also am guilty of I told somebody last night that I'm an extroverted homebody. So I love people, I get energy from being around people, but I also love to be at home. Some people would argue with that. It's not that I like to be at home alone. I like to be at home with people. That's the piece, you know, like, have people here. So the other night we had a big group here and it was so much fun. We were laughing and we were rolling, as one of our friends would say. Um um and it just felt so like that. I was so happy the next day because my heart felt so full of having these people gather in here in the space. But it's really easy for me to be like, no, I don't want to go to that. I'm good to stay at home. And part of that's probably COVID, if I'm being honest. But then again, even before COVID I would do that. I would say, my movie is on. Or like my friends would say, let's go out and go do something. If I had the idea in my head that I was going to stay home and watch my movie, I would do that even if I were alone at all. At all means necessary. So it's complicated. It's not as easy whoops. It's not as easy as uh yeah. Belongingness, do things in groups, build relationships. Because there are times where I have to force myself to go. Not because I don't want to see people, because once I'm there, I love it.

Chris Miller: Right? Yeah. It's like exercise. We know the benefits of exercise, but it's still hard to.

Speaker C: Do.

Annie Miller: Not for me. I don't even sweat. That's awesome. I just glow.

Chris Miller: You do glow. You're glowing now. But a lot of the people who exercise, they know it's good, but they're not crazy about.

Speaker C: It.

Chris Miller: I, uh, think we are in a unique position here.

Speaker C: Who's we?

Annie Miller: You and me.

Chris Miller: You and me. Because we can offer communication advice for relationships.

Annie Miller: Oh, I don't know if I can offer advice.

Chris Miller: What do you.

Annie Miller: Think? Well, I guess yeah, we've got real experiences.

Speaker C: Right?

Annie Miller: I just feel like I have a lot more to learn.

Chris Miller: Oh, I have a ton to learn.

Annie Miller: But I guess you can still be in a place and be able to speak from your experience and give advice, even if you've got more learning. I don't think we ever stopped learning.

Chris Miller: Would you say it's important to communicate in relationship?

Speaker C: Yes.

Chris Miller: Why?

Annie Miller: Uh, because that is how you build, literally, that communication is how you build with somebody. You foster that connection, you maintain that connection. Something I feel like we haven't given enough light to is maintenance. Relational maintenance. Because starting a relationship or friendship comes with its own. It's its own thing.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: And you've got to interact, you've got to build. But also, once you're in a relationship, you've got to be able to maintain. True.

Chris Miller: Yeah. And a lot of people sleep on maintenance.

Annie Miller: And a lot of people sleep on maintenance. And being intentional about maintaining relationships, whether it's a friendship or in a marriage or family, like taking intentional time to.

Chris Miller: Maintain that relationship because it's not as sexy as the other parts building or asking someone out for the first time, or breaking up or dumping with somebody, terminating relationships, the mundane, the in between. Yeah, it doesn't have all the glitz and glamour. No, but it's just as important.

Annie Miller: It is. In fact, somebody told me once did I say this on the last episode, that a lot of the growth happens in between things? I don't think I said that, but somebody told me it was my 20. I guess it was my 22nd, 3rd birthday, 20. So, I don't know, 22nd or 23rd. And I was, uh, interning at a place and they all took me out to lunch for my birthday. And I loved them so much, but I asked them, like, what's your best piece of advice? And everybody went around the table and somebody said, this has really stuck with me. Somebody said, a lot of the growth happens in between these big moments. And of course, growth happens in big moments. Right. You graduate college, big moment, lot of growth, you're really proud, you, uh, get your first job. Or maybe it doesn't even have to be school or academic related or professional skydiving go skydiving for the first time. But it's those moments in between where you really, uh, can dig deep and learn a lot from. And I think that at a personal level, I found that to be true, but I also think you can map that onto relationships in between the milestones in between when you get married and when you buy a house.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: A lot of times, I remember she was saying a lot of people, it's like, on to the next thing. But how can you make that in between time really meaningful? And I think that's relationship maintenance falls in the in between time. I mean, it's always it's ongoing. Right. But how are you going to take that time where, let's say, maybe things are more routine or mundane? That's not a bad thing. So how are you going to be intentional about that time to maintain?

Chris Miller: How do you do it?

Annie Miller: How do I do it? Yeah. Uh, one thing that you and I do is that we try to do like each week we try to do something, the two of us, whether it's like, go out to dinner or go for a walk in a new place like Novelty. Um, I think going somewhere new, doing a new adventure. Oftentimes we don't even do anything that costs money. Mhm taking Sunny somewhere that makes me.

Chris Miller: Think of excitation transfer.

Annie Miller: Oh, yeah.

Chris Miller: Which is a cool concept, and a lot of people use it in dating, but it happens. You can use it to your advantage in a committed relationship long term. And in dating, what a lot of people refer to is say you meet someone for the first time, and the first date is, oh, yeah, you go to MLB game. And then after that, you go to the coolest ice cream shop that's always on Instagram. And then you end the night with a live performance by the weekend, and you're like, oh, my gosh, that was so much fun. That was so exciting. And then the next date, you go skydiving for the first time. And then after skydiving, you get to swim with dolphins.

Annie Miller: Oh, yeah.

Chris Miller: And there's all these exciting things. And we have a tendency of projecting the excitement we're getting from doing these novel things onto the individual. Yeah. So it's similar to infatuation and the idea that we're overloaded with all this stuff and we, uh, fall in love immediately. But instead, rather than individual, it's the things that you do that we project onto the individual. Yeah. Yet, that being said, you can use that in long term, committed relationships by doing new things together, exciting things together to improve the strength of relationship.

Annie Miller: Yeah, agreed. Because those things aren't inherently bad. Like, it's good to do fun things. We all love fun things. Right. And that's you're making a memory. And if it's really intentional, like last last year, and we're doing it again this year, um, if my guess is correct about a surprise, what are you going to confirm it? Last year when you took me to go see musical at Starlight Theater, a, uh, theater outside under the stars, it was incredible. Like, the show was incredible, but also to be there and to do something so fun that I love. But now you've become a musical fan as well.

Chris Miller: Oh, and I love that music and.

Annie Miller: You love that musical. Yeah. So it's great that we can do that together. And I think we're going again in a few weeks.

Chris Miller: Did you buy the tickets?

Annie Miller: TBD. Stay tuned for episode three. Stay tuned. Um, but I think another oh, go ahead. You had a thought?

Speaker C: No.

Annie Miller: You have another thing I was going to say. Obviously, making plans for things regularly I think is good, especially, like, in a marriage, but also in a friendship, also in a family relationship. One practice that I am trying to uh my siblings are amazing people. I love them so much, and I'm so grateful that I get a brother and a sister, but also two best friends. And I love the dynamic that the three of us grew up with. And now the dynamic that I get to see with you in the mix as well. It's so special, and I'm so grateful for that. And one thing that I am trying to do is also take time to be with my siblings. Uh, just one on one, because that's really important, too. So, like, the other day, I went with Jimmy to eat lunch, and we went to Panera and ate lunch, and I got to catch up with him. And me and I are making plans. There's the mascot. Me and I are making plans. This week to go get, uh, our nails done. So it's that one on one time with people, it doesn't have to be in the context of, um, a marriage or dating, like romantic relationship, but family too, or friends. Uh, just last week I was visiting my hometown and I had the opportunity to see three I got to see three of my longest, oldest friends and it was so neat to reconnect with them. And one thing maintenance wise, with friendships, I think is there's something to be said for sorry, Sunny here? Um, like being able to reminisce with people, I think that's a great tool to maintain a relationship. I think humor is great. So this extends friendship, but also non friendship. But humor is a great way to maintain relationships using communication. And being able to laugh with somebody, I think is really great.

Chris Miller: Yeah, humor, uh, checking in, hanging out one on one time. What's the rubber band theory? For instance, there's axioms and one is someone doing like, novelty versus consistency or sameness. And you have all these different axioms with 1 may be extroversion versus introversion. And um, everybody falls on a different on a continuum. On a continuum. But you and I are in different places on that continuum. So our relationship is all about this rubber band that we're pulling back and forth, back and forth. And I may want to go to this community event at, uh, this place that we don't know about and we don't know anyone, but I want to go completely for the novelty and to meet people. But you may want to have something a bit more routine, predictable.

Annie Miller: It's predictability.

Chris Miller: Predictability.

Annie Miller: Yeah, it's predictable. I'm laughing because that just happened.

Chris Miller: Novelty and predictability. And everybody falls in a different place on that mhm. And you have to be mindful of how you pull that rubber band because if you're not careful, rubber bands snap. So if you're constantly doing this predictable thing, then after a while, that person who needs novelty will attempt to not need novelty. But ultimately they'll need it.

Speaker C: Yeah. And.

Chris Miller: Uh, I'm trying to think of what that theory is.

Annie Miller: I don't know. That theory.

Chris Miller: Yeah, the rubber band theory. Yeah, it's a communication theory.

Annie Miller: Oh, really?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: So do you think the psychology theory because a lot of theories are borrowed from psychology, possibly could be. I think that's a really important piece. And I also think one of the things I meant to say, uh, as we started this part of the conversation is that sometimes I feel like this is such a good dilemma to have that my sense of belonging is so satisfied and so full that I don't need to go do other.

Speaker C: Things.

Annie Miller: And I'm so grateful that I've got such close friends who don't live near us, but I feel so close to even though there's geographic separation, I'm so grateful for that because it's so special and unique to have that. And. The friends in my life that I am thinking of right now are just salt of the earth people who there's such an affinity for and who there's still maintenance that goes into that, of course. And I think that certainly has something to do with the connectedness that I feel from far away. Um, but it's a good dilemma to have to feel like your sense of belonging is so satisfied.

Chris Miller: Mhm do you feel lonely?

Annie Miller: Do I feel lonely often? Yeah. No, I thought you were going to say sometimes I feel lonely sometimes, but typically when I feel lonely, it's when I'm anxious about something, not because I'm actually lonely.

Chris Miller: Mhm and you want somebody to process the anxiety with you or why do.

Annie Miller: You think that so much? Maybe because it feels sometimes it feels maybe like overwhelming.

Speaker C: Overwhelming?

Annie Miller: Or maybe, uh, consuming or maybe you feel like in a moment or I feel like in a moment of really intense anxiety that nobody mhm it's not that nobody would understand because I've got people in my life who I know when I'm there having intense anxiety, I'm calling them up, be dial. And I do that, I actively do that. But maybe it's that sometimes I feel like even though I know other people experience it, that these moments are I just wish, like, oh, I wish I didn't have to have this anxiety, like this burden of anxiety. And so that can make me feel lonely, maybe. Yeah, what would you and maybe it's not loneliness, maybe it's just like sadness about this being something that I struggle with. Mhm instead of loneliness because I really don't feel lonely because I feel very connected to people. M to you, my siblings, my friends.

Chris Miller: My parents, coworkers and having that insight to figure out is this sadness or is this loneliness?

Annie Miller: Huh? Yeah, insight.

Chris Miller: Critical. There is a Harvard psychologist, the chair of psychology right now, Susan David.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Annie Miller: I listened to her on a podcast.

Chris Miller: And she talks about emotional agility. Mhm and being emotionally agile is being able to know HM, what you're feeling, how you're feeling it. Mhm and then how to get from there to where you want to go.

Annie Miller: That's good.

Chris Miller: But then if you combine her with Brene Brown brene Brown has books. She has one book is it the Alice to the Heart? There's one book that she has where she goes through over 100 different emotions.

Annie Miller: Oh yeah, I haven't read it, but you've told me about it.

Chris Miller: Mhm and you can like shame and guilt. She loves those.

Annie Miller: Oh yeah, I was just watching her video on it.

Chris Miller: Yeah, you can go through and she talks about all of those, but then she'll talk about feeling overwhelmed or feeling anxious. Mhm or feeling stressed. Mhm and how all of those things are different.

Annie Miller: They are different.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: It's great to know and being able to label properly that's a real because sometimes if you're like me. I feel things. Feel things that you can feel things deeply and you can feel multiple things at a time. So sometimes when I'm really excited about something, uh, physiologically, my body's like, oh, I'm anxious, but I'm actually just really excited. Or like, oh, I feel lonely. No, I'm actually just sad. Yeah, that's a real gift. I'm still fine tuning that.

Chris Miller: You're getting really good at it. So what's been your favorite date this past year that we've gone on?

Annie Miller: My favorite date? Uh huh. In the last calendar year in 2023 months. Right.

Speaker C: Sorry.

Annie Miller: Yeah, I meant year to date.

Chris Miller: Yeah, year to date. Favorite date. Year.

Annie Miller: To date. That's tough. There are two that come to mind.

Speaker C: Okay.

Annie Miller: But I love that we can make a lot of mundane things really fun. So some of my favorite times are, like, hanging out with you and Sunny. But I really loved going to see that musical under the Stars that we're about to go see again.

Chris Miller: Same venue, different musical, and we got to eat the buffet.

Annie Miller: Remember that? Oh, yeah, we did that. That was a real experience. And we got a funnel cake, didn't we? Didn't we get funnel fries?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And you got something else, I think, like a soda, maybe?

Speaker C: Probably.

Annie Miller: I'm all about the experience, so if it means getting the popcorn at the at the place, you bet your bottom dollar I'm getting the popcorn.

Chris Miller: And you said there was another one.

Annie Miller: Oh, yeah, that was one of them. The musical under the Stars was absolutely lovely. And then there was a night you and I, uh, we went to dinner in downtown Lawrence and we got one of my favorite dishes. Can you guess? M. Um, I love food, so there's a lot of favorites. What is it?

Chris Miller: Singapore noodles. Oh, yeah. That's one of your recent favorites.

Annie Miller: One of my recent favorites?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: I go through waves.

Chris Miller: It just recently entered the favorite rank.

Annie Miller: I think I would say in the last six months. Yeah, right. We went and got Singapore noodles.

Chris Miller: You had food envy because you got something else.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Annie Miller: Why do I deal with food envy? I think here's the thing. I think I just have a really good when I see menu, boom. I can pick out a really good dish. Mhm.

Chris Miller: I'm seasoned. Mhm, you're good at, ah, picking out food.

Annie Miller: I'm good at picking up food.

Chris Miller: I'm a good eater, and I can have a hard time with decision making whenever it comes to picking food.

Speaker C: Yes.

Chris Miller: So what do I typically do?

Annie Miller: You will typically order something and then you'll have some of mine. Uh, you'll order the biggest thing on the menu. That's usually a mix of a lot of things, and typically that's not the best menu item.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: I think sometimes your brain sees quantity.

Chris Miller: I think my brain sees quantity and then I think variety. I won't have FOMO if I order.

Annie Miller: A little bit of a little Bit of Everything.

Speaker C: Right.

Chris Miller: But then what happens is it's like the quantity over quality, and I end up getting something that I'm not crazy about. For instance, we recently went to a Mexican restaurant, and I got something off the menu called A Little Bit of Everything mhm. And I was not amazed.

Annie Miller: And I got something that was on your dish, but I got just that, and I loved it. Yeah. So anyhow, we did that. We went to dinner downtown. We walked downtown. It was so nice. It was still warm. I think it was in the fall, and it was still warmish. And so we walked up and down the downtown. And then we went to the grocery store afterwards and got ice cream and brought it home. And there was a really good sale. Oh, that's right. That was the sale on, um, the.

Chris Miller: Taylor top for $2.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: Wild deal of the century.

Annie Miller: Something happened.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: I think it was a misprint.

Chris Miller: A misprint that we took advantage of because we went back to the store and told friends about it four or three times. Four times.

Annie Miller: Four times. And I'm just going to say that supply should have lasted us a lot.

Chris Miller: Longer than it did, but we had a lot of people over.

Annie Miller: We did have a lot of people over. And we got to have people over and was like, hey, do you want a Pint mhm? Do you want your own pint, mhm?

Chris Miller: We got to share. That was great. So you shared two different dates here. What about you? What about tables have turned?

Annie Miller: What's been welcome to the Talk to Annie podcast. What's been one of the favorite yeah.

Chris Miller: What's been one of your favorite dates? Our waitress date. The musical date so awesome.

Annie Miller: Was incredible.

Chris Miller: Uh huh. And we had a blast doing that. And then we've had some really good nights on the grill over here. We have grilling up burgers or chicken. Catching the thing on fire.

Annie Miller: Catching a thing on fire. Yeah.

Chris Miller: The drip pan, the grease fire.

Speaker C: Grease fire. Yeah.

Chris Miller: We have to navigate that. And then we've gone to pizza. Big city topeka to go to Olive Garden a couple of times.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And that's been fun. Soup, salad, breadsticks.

Speaker C: Breadsticks.

Chris Miller: But I get the chicken parm club soda with a lemon. I'm not complaining. So those have been some of my favorite dates. I think we've had a lot of fun just hanging out. Yeah.

Annie Miller: I like activity.

Chris Miller: You do?

Annie Miller: I like throwing the ball.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: Or like going to play pickleball or basketball.

Chris Miller: Going to play pickleball basketball. Going for a walk. I love activity, so I love being able to sit down and talk with you. But I connect with people, uh, almost even better whenever I'm side by side rather than face to face. Whenever I'm doing something with people.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And I think that's what compels me to go play soccer with people or go put these think tank sessions together mhm. Or to meet people who are in a similar thing than I am to work on this podcast or to further this podcast. Mhm, so you had questions.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: What questions do you have? I want to know what is something I want to talk about the podcast a little bit, because the last time I was on was the very start. So we recorded that episode in November, right? Yeah. It launched in January. It was released in January, the start of the podcast. And now we're in May. So you've been doing this a little bit now. What's one thing that you are proud of, one thing that you've learned, and.

Chris Miller: One thing that you would do differently next time?

Annie Miller: OOH, Dang.

Speaker C: Good cues.

Chris Miller: Get her on the mic.

Annie Miller: She's on the mic.

Chris Miller: Say no more. I have a mic in front of me. I've got the mic right. M here. What is one thing that I am proud of?

Speaker C: Yep.

Chris Miller: Let's start with that. I'm so proud I was able to get you as a guest. Tough get.

Annie Miller: I am proud hey.

Speaker C: Really tough.

Annie Miller: When they're knocking on your door saying.

Chris Miller: When can I I am really proud that I have had a collection of.

Annie Miller: Conversations with a variety of different people.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: And that the way that the conversations that you've had, it's not just like, oh, I know this person, let's have them on the podcast. There are people that you didn't know that you got connected to or that you it's so neat that you had to seek out. It wasn't just like, all right, all.

Chris Miller: These podcast guests appear on your doorstep.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And soon I'll be at the point to where the majority of people who've been on this podcast are people I don't know. Yeah. Which is exciting. Yeah. Because there's opportunities to build new relationships.

Annie Miller: And it takes extra effort to be like, hey, can you I want to yeah.

Chris Miller: I'm proud of you, too. Thank you, Annie. One of the things that I was thinking of was, I enjoy being able to meet new people, and I also am intentional. The people I have on, they exemplify what I'm talking about.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: And I want to maintain that integrity. Yeah. Something I wish I had done different.

Annie Miller: So that's what you've learned. What's the piece that you said?

Chris Miller: Something you're proud of? Something I've learned is that it takes a lot longer than I expected to do. Uh, all of this.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: Another thing I've learned is that when you're creative, you also have to be incredibly gracious with yourself. And that's one thing I've been trying to tell a whole bunch of different people right now is the essence of creativity is that it did not exist prior to when you created it. That being said, bringing it out into this world mhm inherent to that is a risk. There's a reason why it wasn't created prior to you. Maybe a person didn't have the skill set you had mixed with your personality. Or maybe there is a cost to bring it to the world, but one of the costs with any creativity is being self critical. So I've been learning that a lot. And I know there's self critical nature with, uh, a lot of people, but being graciously creative is something I'm trying to learn right now.

Annie Miller: And I've been learning well, as an outsider, you're definitely exemplifying that. And I think that the way I see it. We're always, our own hurt us on ourselves.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy in terms of being self critical. And so it's much easier said than done. But I think about what you've been able to do and where you started, and I'm like, oh, my goodness. You jumped in, you learned something completely new. You built something. I don't think people realize, to your point that an episode start to finish, to recording, to sending it out, how long that takes and how many steps there are. And that, to me, is just one example of, uh, where it's like, you should give yourself a lot of credit because you're doing a great job, and.

Chris Miller: I'm really proud of you. Thank you. And I can tell you're proud of me.

Annie Miller: You're a great support system. And I know I keep joking about me being on the mic. I'm just doing bits here. No, I am doing bits. I really am so happy for you. And I love that I get to sit here and talk to you. Um, and I think we should do a whole episode just for the listeners. My idea for the second episode was for me to interview you all about the podcast. Then what happened?

Chris Miller: You didn't want that? I was up for it.

Annie Miller: No, you said it should just be a conversation. And you said, I want to talk about relationships more.

Chris Miller: Oh, I do. Because I think a lot of people wonder about relational communication. I think a lot of people want to know how to improve their communication, their relationships. And I think you are such a great source of info. But I know you don't feel that way sometimes.

Annie Miller: No, I don't. Like today, I don't. I actually feel like a lousy communicator. Right, but don't you think people could relate to that?

Chris Miller: Yeah, I think the majority of people can relate to it. But you taught relational communication for two years at the university. I did. You studied it for a year in a PhD program. I did. You've done research on it for years. And then now you are working for an organization that you're crushing it at, but then you're also managing all these other relationships outside of work.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: So you are a source of authority.

Annie Miller: Well, thanks, Chris.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: Well, now I feel like we should re record so I can, uh, share more wisdom.

Chris Miller: Um kidding. Yeah. You are wise, pretty, and wise. Thanks, Chris.

Annie Miller: So what's one thing what's one thing.

Chris Miller: That you do differently?

Annie Miller: One thing I would do differently?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: Don't weasel your way out of that.

Chris Miller: One, buster is you're like that guy Larry King. Larry King. Mhm he made sure nobody weaseled their way out of questions.

Annie Miller: Do you know Larry King? In my head, I know I know who Larry King is. In my head, I was thinking of.

Chris Miller: Jerry Springer, but Jerry Springer maybe because he just passed away and he was in the news. Oh, jerry Springer just passed away.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: As far as communication goes, there's something to say that Jerry Springer knew what he was doing. Because for those of you who watched Jerry Springer, it was about getting relational conflict uh huh. On the stage and then having them work it out in not so constructive ways. Uh, but you have to be aware of how to navigate conflict, to create the spectacle of conflict. Maybe you don't. Maybe you can just do it. But one thing I would have done differently is I've spent so much time thinking about how to do this and thinking about getting on the right guests and the right questions to ask and what is my niche? Who are the people? Who is my audience?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: I wish for a lot of people that they could focus less on all that stuff they can't control and more on, okay, I'm going to just do it. I'm going to upgrade my software. Meaning I'm going to read books. I'm going to talk to people and learn from them. I'm going to focus on how to edit a video. Mhm how to record a podcast, all of those things. If you want to market. I'm going to focus on marketing the outcome, the lag measures.

Annie Miller: Man, woman worry about those less. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's really wise. What a great thing to end on.

Chris Miller: Worry about those less. So what is one thing uh huh.

Annie Miller: You wish more people knew about you? Oh, this is a question I told.

Chris Miller: You to ask every guest. I got to give it to you.

Speaker C: Right.

Annie Miller: What is one thing that I.

Speaker C: Wish.

Annie Miller: Everybody knew about me?

Chris Miller: M that's a tough one. You know the I heard, like, the ethnographer's rule. Mhm so for those who do ethnography yes, ethnographic work.

Annie Miller: Don't ask a question you want to answer yourself. Oh, no, that's a great rule of thumb. But I'm thinking like my I have a I mean, there are a few things, I think one that sometimes can be I don't want to bring it back to this because I talked about this in the first episode, but sometimes I think people could see me as somebody who is really socially confident. And a lot of times I do have a little bit of social anxiety that I try to push through. I don't know if I wish people knew that about me, but it's like, hey, if you see somebody who you think is maybe confident or presents themselves confidently, and you think to yourself, like, oh, man, that can never be me on the.

Speaker C: Inside.

Annie Miller: That's not me.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Annie Miller: I don't know. I wish I had something I feel like I need more thought on that. Like, what is one thing I wish more people knew about me or people knew about me? I don't know. I don't know. Just that I'm continuing to grow and improve, and I hope to if I haven't been a good friend or a good you know, like, I'm hoping to improve every single day, and I hope to I don't know.

Chris Miller: Amen bubby. Okay, Wanda, there one thing more people wish more people I wish more people knew about me.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Chris Miller: Is that, uh I have such a sweet tooth, and I'm struggling with my glucose consumption. Oh, glucose.

Speaker C: Okay.

Annie Miller: Sugar, sugar, sugar, sugar, sugar, sugar. Wait, that was a good answer.

Chris Miller: Now I need to redo mine. Thank you for being here.

Annie Miller: It was a blast to have you on.

Chris Miller: Can I do the sign off?

Annie Miller: Yeah, go for it.

Chris Miller: Did you hear that, Sean? Go for it.

Annie Miller: Uh, all right, folks, we will see you next time. Chris Miller, thank you for having me on. I love you. I'm proud of you. You're a great, communicator, really good friend, and I'm excited to be on for a third time.

Chris Miller: Just put it on my calendar.

Annie Miller: Okay, I'll let you know. Talk to you soon, folks.

Chris Miller: Back to studio.

Annie Miller: We'll see you.

Speaker C: Next time.

Chris Miller: All right, folks, back to studio.

Annie Miller: You're like my echo?

Chris Miller: Uh, echo. Um, okay.

Annie Miller: All right, we'll see you next time.

Chris Miller: All right, see you next time.

Speaker C: I'm not winning you. I'm not winning.