#25 - Mia Santarelli: The Importance of an Intergenerational Community

Which means that you are officially live again at the dining room studio.

Round two for you, but the first time since the advent of cameras to the studio.

I know.

Yeah, so we have all of our lights here and our natural lighting and a candle behind you that you won't be able to see if you're watching, but just know that it's there, so it's smelling good here.

Yeah, good ambience.

Uh-huh.

But we wanted to have you on because I was thinking about some stuff and I thought Mia would be the perfect person.

Honored.

Yeah, honored because some of the stuff I want to talk to you about today was something we weren't even talking about last time you were on.

And you were what, one of the first five, I believe.

So now we're 20 guests beyond that.

And there's some things that have been in my head lately that I've discussed with other people that I think would be great to discuss with you.

But then there's also things that you've been working on, right, that I think would be really cool to hear your thinking behind and hear kind of what you're working on because it's inspiring.

It's always cool whenever people have something in mind and then they go out there to try and make it happen.

Right?

Yep.

Yeah.

It can take a while and it is not a linear path, but whenever you see someone go for it, then there's something exciting there.

But for starters, how have you been since we were last here?

Oh, yes.

You know, it's been good.

It's been great.

I'm still working with Senior Citizens, which is a passion of mine.

You already know this.

So yeah, life's been good.

Life's been good.

Have you been taking any pictures?

Because last we left off, you were saying that you had some pictures that you should post, but you were kind of unsure about whether or not you were going to post them.

What's the status there?

So there has been movement.

The needle is moving there.

My website is underway.

So that is a huge move in a positive direction for me.

So I'm getting myself out there slowly but surely.

I want to make sure I do it right.

So for me, making sure that I curate the website to reflect that, super important.

But I also don't want to be sleeping on it.

Let's jump on it.

So I would say it's probably 80, 85% in shape.

So when can we expect it to go live?

I would say in a couple of weeks.

Check back in a couple of weeks.

One of the loosest frame of references for time.

A couple of weeks.

All right.

Well, two weeks from when this is published, then we're going to make sure to check out your website.

And where can people find you at?

What will your website be called?

Wait, are you talking about my personal stuff?

But that sounds weird.

But like your personal photography of landscapes.

Correct.

Yeah.

To be clear, there are landscapes, cityscapes, everyday life shots, architectural details, stuff like that.

Thank you.

Things that I've collected and taken throughout different travels, but also a lot of things that I experienced or saw in the different places that I've lived so far.

So yes, website will be up.

I don't know where you can find it yet.

Because you're still thinking about domain name?

Domain name, there's still a lot in development.

So you're going to really have to like stay tuned and you might want to cut this whole thing out.

That's the 15% that you're referring to.

Because settling on a name for several things that I've been working on has been difficult.

I don't know how you, I mean, Talk to People Podcast, that seems so natural.

And I'm like, oh, why would it be anything else?

That's perfect.

But for me, that's where one of the things I struggle with is like choosing a brand name.

Because for me to get to talk to people took a long time.

Really?

Because the reason why it is Talk to People is I knew I wanted to create a podcast, but so many people would tell me you need to find a niche, you need to find a niche, you need to find a niche.

And I would always say, well, I just want to talk to people.

And I don't really want to be a person who's like, oh, every single day I'm going to talk to this one individual about how they budget through the month of June, you know, and have all these different people in my niches.

Personal finance and budgeting and the month of June.

It's like, I'm just trying to talk to people.

So that's why it is talk to people.

But after I said it, after the fact, you do a lot of justification in your head of like, oh, yeah, it's also talk to people because in order to initiate a relationship, more than likely you have to talk to somebody, right?

So it's like the genesis of relationship building.

And the end of all of this would be that people have great relationships and awesome communities.

So we may as well start there with talking to people, right?

So you'll get there too.

It's like you'll pick something due to a certain reason.

And then a year later, you'll be like, oh, yeah, and it's also this too, you know?

But one of the last people I had on the podcast, they said something that I really, it's still in my head, but they said you can't steer a docked ship, meaning you have to get going and then you get good.

And that'll happen with your website too, because you can always brand yourself.

And having to rebrand yourself can be tough, but it's better to rebrand yourself rather than to never start.

You know what I mean?

So we went from a phase of not growth to building a website, which I haven't done yet for my own stuff.

So the ship is maybe docked partially, but totally motivating.

But you were taking ropes off, and you're loading the ship up with stuff.

Yeah.

Sometimes I need a swift kick in the, you know.

In the hull of the ship.

Yes.

Yep.

To just say, just quit overthinking it and just do it.

So have you historically always been an overthinker?

With certain things, yes.

Yes.

And so I like to think about, oh, potentially.

And also with a creative perspective, I think about, oh, I could go in this direction, that direction.

Let's explore all the different ones and then figure it out.

Which for time's sake is not always the smartest move because then I spend a lot of time exploring all the potential avenues instead of focusing on, all right, I'm going to pick this one and just go with it.

And then if it changes as I move along, then I'll figure it out.

But yeah, so the paradox of choice paralyzed by that sometimes.

And it's the analysis paralysis.

Yep.

But you are working on a lot of different things.

And one of the things that we wanted to talk about a bit was previously, I've been thinking about something and you can weigh in on this.

But it's this idea of the importance of community.

But in addition to that, a certain characteristic of community.

And I think that myself, you, people who really anybody, I think, should strive for this.

And that's to have intergenerational community.

So if you can imagine a building and each story of the building represents a generation, oftentimes people have like two story buildings.

Like they know their peer group, which is one story.

And then they may know like their parents and their parents' friends and their parents' siblings.

You know, if they're lucky, like I didn't really grow up with grandparents.

I had one grandparent for a while.

I had two grandparents, technically, for a while.

So they may have another story.

But as we get older, particularly, I would say after high school and you get into college and then after college, you have an active opportunity and choice to make to put yourself around older people and kind of expand your life.

I know this has done really well in the church.

On average, this has done really well in the church.

For instance, if you go to church on Sunday, then you can see people who are much older than you or who are much younger than you.

And that's the sweet spot, is to have people on both sides of you.

But for the past, what, three, four years, three years, I would say, you've been working professionally in the, like, with older adults full time, right?

Did I miss anything?

No.

So what are your thoughts on just hearing that about multi-generational community?

Yeah, I think multi-generational community is vitally important.

I think interacting with people younger and older than you and not just by a few years, I think having a significant age gap in the people that you're building relationships with is really important, especially with senior citizens.

I've often seen, especially recently, senior citizens and children being paired together.

There's such a strong bond there.

And it's amazing to see two opposite ends of the spectrum of life interact with each other.

I have started doing this program where I'm currently working, and our seniors are paired with students, and they do these reading groups pretty much every other Friday at this point.

But it is so cool to see these kids who are like pre-K, they're pretty young.

And these seniors who are in their 80s, 90s, come together and have so much fun with each other.

They're learning from each other too, and they're learning how to communicate with each other, and it's just fun.

Yeah, and you were on an island on the other side of the country, and then now you are in the middle of the United States.

But the same rule applies in that you are showing up to these facilities, these places that these people live, these people being like older adults, and then enriching their lives with activities.

You're doing it via a smile and friendship, and it shows how much weight that carries.

And I think it's so important because we are, every single day, I know the majority of people who listen to this would not classify themselves as older adults.

And I think because of that, every single day, we constantly toil about certain things, like what should I do about this?

What should I do about that?

What should I do about this business?

What should I do about this pursuit or this relationship or this certain problem?

And we have so many answers out there, but they're not necessarily in books or on the internet, but they're in people.

And I don't think that a lot of people would mind sharing them.

Oftentimes, they love being able to hang out and talk and one of my favorite memories from my undergraduate experience was I was volunteering at like a, they called it a continuing care community and I was sitting down.

She was like, hey, would you just mind having coffee with some of the guys?

So I'm sitting down at this table.

It's a bit large in this one, but it's a round table.

And at the time I was 21 and then the youngest person at the table was about 80 years old.

And one of the guys looked at me and he said, man, you got the whole world ahead of you, son.

Like that right there.

And he was just kind of like hyping me up.

And it was funny because we were watching Fox News and I believe Trump had just gotten elected.

And then one of the guys was like, man, what I would do if I were as young as you right now, like in this new America, that's kind of like what he was referring to because he was excited that Trump got elected.

But the sentiment of like, man, there's a whole bunch in front of you was like kind of crazy for me to recognize.

Totally.

But we would never ever recognize something like that.

Had we not been around people who have perspective and the wisdom to be able to share that with us.

I think that's such a beautiful memory by the way.

Yeah.

Really, truly.

Yeah, it was fun.

I was supposed to do an internship and help develop a good pipeline for college students to volunteer there.

And I got a decent of the way in, but nothing materialized.

But I tried.

It was for one of my leadership capstone projects.

Yet I got a lot of good memories from it.

Totally.

And they probably did too.

Yes.

You saying how one of the seniors that you visited said like you have the world at your fingertips or kind of a thing.

You've got a whole future ahead of you in this new type of world.

I think it's fascinating to get a senior citizen's perspective on that and like the sense of you have a future, right?

Because they've lived so many different lives in between when they were a baby and to now when they're in their 80s, 90s, right?

They've done so many different things and it's really compelling to learn about the way that their journey has taken them in so many different directions, but it's also inspiring because it kind of motivates me to not be weighed down by hesitation.

Like sometimes I hesitate and I'm like, well, maybe that's really not what I'm supposed to do and maybe I should just wait.

And a lot of times when I talk to seniors in a variety of different communities, whether it be long-term care or independent living, there's this sense of like, why hesitate?

You know, why are you hesitating?

Just do the thing and you're going to be okay because look at me, I've done the thing 10,000 different ways and I'm okay, and I'm here to tell you these stories.

So for me, it's really almost like a warm hug.

You know, they're like, you're going to be fine, but just do it and you know, I don't know.

So to hear that, it makes me reflect on that.

Yeah.

So what are some of the stories that you've heard and you don't have to share names, but I'd be curious.

Yeah, I mean, gosh, I've worked with a variety of people.

You know, some people had really, really high up jobs in higher education, so they worked for the state board.

Some people I know, you know, they worked, and also as a generational thing, some of the females worked at home, some of them worked as secretaries.

Other people I know have worked in big finance groups.

Other people have traveled the world, a lot of military service.

People working in the Olympics, people working in all sorts of different settings, in higher government positions.

So it's really cool to see how, you know, they've led these incredible lives, and now I get to enjoy the person that's in front of me and the stories that they have to share, and I really want to learn from what they've experienced.

Because I do think that the good, the bad, the ugly, they're not going to sugarcoat it either, which is great.

I have found a lot of times when I'm speaking with seniors, they're really honest.

No matter the situation, they're going to be honest.

And I always find that really refreshing because they don't mean it in a mean way.

They, I really think they mean it in an honest way of like stewarding the people that are coming after them.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And how do you learn from them?

I ask them a lot of questions, whether that be during an activity or just during time when kind of hanging out, walking around.

I asked them questions about, hey, so tell me what that was like.

For example, somebody mentioned that they grew up on a farm and I'm like, tell me what that was like.

And she said, oh, you know, my family, we had cattle, we had this, but I really remember picking blackberries with my grandma.

Or, you know, so it's just like picking up on the nuances of everyday life of things that they did, you know, for many, many years.

But something that you wouldn't know that this person had blackberries in their backyard if you didn't ask, hey, so tell me more about that, or what is your favorite memory of growing up on the farm, or something that you really hold dear to your heart, because there are those small things that are really, really meaningful.

Even just the smell of something, they're like, oh gosh, you know, I remember making apple pie with my mom every Sunday or something like that.

So that just, you know, and you're so good at this too.

You ask really meaningful questions.

It's true.

It's true.

And so that gets people to feel more comfortable talking.

And it kind of opens the floor for maybe conversations that would go in different directions instead of just, oh, where did you grow up?

The basics, right?

Yeah.

What are some of those questions that you do ask?

Because I know you tap into their wisdom by asking questions, probably asking about their childhood, right?

You know, a lot of, I would say, a lot of interactions with seniors definitely focus on reminiscing, like that component of it, which is great because you're pulling from long-term memory.

And a lot of times long-term memory is pretty intact, regardless of age.

And now, obviously, you know, there's just, there are discrepancies there.

But reminiscing often brings up a lot of happy things, but they oftentimes can bring up really difficult things too.

But I think it's all in the way that they choose to talk about it too.

You know, a lot of, there's one in particular I'm thinking of who grew up in the Depression era, right?

And she spoke about how she remembers walking miles to the grocery store just to get a small amount of food and walking that food back to her family.

You know, this is something that she repeatedly did for a while.

And so to think about kind of the physicality of that as a child basically, you know, walking to the store to acquire these things and come home and bring it to your family.

It creates this dynamic persona.

You know, I think sometimes you just look at someone for like what's in front of you, and I think that's great.

But there's so much more that you would, I would have had no idea, you know, that she had done this had I not asked, Hey, so what was it like growing up during this time period?

Because I know about it from history books.

But I want to know about it from you.

And that's a totally different perspective than what you're going to read somewhere else.

You know, yeah, that makes sense.

Because whenever I was an assistant at the place that you work at currently, because we had a well-known screenwriter do a session there, she was talking about how memoir is memory combined with reflection.

Yes.

And I was looking into this idea, and you know about it too, but this idea of narrative medicine and how being able to reflect and take somebody with you, but also, like, just go through memories.

And the sensory questions are one of the big suggestions, is like asking, hey, what was that like?

What did it smell like?

What did it look like?

How did that feel?

Right?

Because the more and more we can get them, and like, I feel weird using like they and them language with this, but just referring to like older adults or seniors, the more and more we can get them to think back on these memories and think back deeply and as vividly as possible.

It's actually like really good for them and great for their health as well, because it brings back those, the dose, like the dopamine, the oxytocin and the serotonin and the endorphins of those memories.

And it gives them the mental engagement.

And so narrative medicine is this whole entire established like field looking into being able to ask questions and talk.

So that makes sense that you would ask questions about that, get them to reflect.

Totally.

Yeah.

And then whenever you are getting them to reflect, are there moments where you get to kind of like witness them time travel?

Yes.

Yeah.

What's that like?

You can see it in their eyes.

You can hear it in their voice.

A lot of times when I feel like I'm asking them questions about their lives, it's so cool because they really ultimately are so excited to share something about themselves.

To somebody who hasn't heard it before.

I think it's fresh eyes.

That would be one of us.

Somebody who's not in their family per se, who's hearing this for the first time.

They're really excited to share that with somebody.

I think that their enthusiasm for sharing that memory translates throughout the conversation.

They're more willing to continue sharing after that.

And so you can tell that after they've shared their memory, I feel like there's this elevated, I don't know, it's just elevated a little bit.

Their spirits are lifted.

They're just kind of, I don't know.

It strengthens them.

Yeah, it's kind of like that little boost that you needed.

You know, like when someone compliments you, like, wow, you know, you look really sharp today.

Exactly.

You've got a great voice, right?

It's like, okay, you know what?

Wow, that was really nice.

And I kind of needed that more than I thought.

And I also think that one of the things that I've seen just in my experience that seniors value is quality time.

So having quality time for uninterrupted conversation, I feel like is something that is really valued by that population.

Right, because it's so limited.

Super limited in our attention span right now.

I would say just speaking in general is super short.

I'm guilty of it all the time.

So I think getting in that rhythm or that practice of five minutes of uninterrupted conversation with a senior a day, a month, however long, it just improves both ends of that spectrum tremendously.

It's so cool to say that I get to do that every day.

To me, it's such a gift, honestly, and I love them so much.

I learn from them every day throughout the whole day.

You have access to a master class every day.

It's fun because I've been able to hang out with you and while you're there, and man, they love you, right?

So it shows that currency because they don't need no cash.

They got that figured out more often than not.

They have that part figured out and they have the whole...

Some of them like to learn a lot and keep learning new skills and stuff, but just being able to share and connect, like a baby in a crib starts crying when they're left alone because innately they know that being disconnected and being alone is a bad thing.

And we never lose that social dependence, but unfortunately, as we age, we just naturally get removed from these existing social institutions.

Once I get too old to be able to run around and play soccer, then the 20 people that I see every week playing soccer, I no longer get to see them.

Once I get too old to the point to where I don't feel like I can confidently do the 15-minute drive to church, then I can get some rides, but maybe someone's unavailable and I'm no longer able to see them.

So this idea of connection right now, as younger adults, you and I are the same age, we get to choose whether or not we're connected for the most part.

Yeah, it's like it's up to us.

And I know that there's exceptions there.

Maybe you're like, Chris, I'm dealing with crippling social anxiety, or Chris, I just broke all of my arms and my legs, and I'm just laying in the hospital bed, or I am in so much debt that I have to work three jobs.

But for the most part, we have the ability to determine whether or not we're connected to the people around us.

Yet there becomes a moment where that switches.

And despite our efforts, it can be really hard to maintain connection, because I can't play soccer like I used to.

I can't drive like I used to.

A lot of these things begin to pick our hand for us, rather than we picking.

So it's like, as I reflect on this, I'm encouraged, but also challenged.

It's sobering in two ways.

The first way it's sobering is since I have the opportunity and the agency to determine how connected I am, then I better work hard at it.

This is a privilege and opportunity, and I need to make the most of it.

And the second thing is, for those people who can't, then I really need to make sure to go.

And this is something I'm inspired by you at, and you're like a leader for me, is showcasing what that looks like, and trying to follow suit, trying to follow your lead.

And I can improve at it.

But...

You're funny.

Thank you.

But that's my thoughts when I hear you say that.

Yeah.

Oh, you're really sweet, Chris.

And you inspire me to, because I think everybody struggles with different things, right?

And so for me, building relationships with people generations older than me is super, to me, feels easy.

It's not intimidating at all.

However, to build relationships with people around my age, so much more intimidating.

And for me, you're inspiring to build that part up.

You really are.

And so, you know, you help me a lot with that.

And I think that it's really great that hand in hand.

Whoa, look out.

Yeah, watch out, world.

You'll bring the old geezers, and I'll bring the young, naive whippersnappers.

Yeah.

And boy, I just, yeah, I think socially interacting with people, you know, much older than I am, I think that really builds up social skills.

And I find that, you know, even with children interacting with seniors, too, the social skills that are practiced and exercised during those interactions are lifelong.

I mean, that's going to carry you through the rest of your life.

The way that you talk with people of different generations, it just builds tremendously over time.

And I think that's a life skill that's really meaningful, and you can't put a price on that, you know?

And all you have to do is just spend time, you know?

It's like it doesn't cost you anything to do.

It's funny because oftentimes we overthink this stuff.

Like yesterday, I was hanging out with a friend of mine who has a couple sons, and I was talking to his oldest son, and I was talking to him about his bounce house.

And he was super excited to tell me about his bounce house.

And I was like, does your bounce house have a yard?

Just asking, you know, just being goofy.

And he's like, no.

And I was like, oh, okay.

I was like, what neighborhood is your bounce house in?

And he's like, it's not in a neighborhood, you know?

But like, just having fun and asking questions goes so far.

Totally.

Now, do you deal with death ever at your work?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, especially at the facility where I previously worked, a long-term skilled nursing facility in the height of COVID, yes.

But even now, yes, it's definitely part of the fabric, you know, unfortunately.

But at the same time, I feel like in both communities where I've worked, the people who live there really look out for each other.

They kind of become this family, and it's so neat to see them express concern or care for each other.

You know, they're constantly checking in.

If they know if something has happened, you know, they're really looking out for each other, and they're saying, Hey, I heard this happened.

What can I do to help?

Or how can I be there for you?

Or how's your family?

So I think that even though they're faced with kind of these not so great aspects of aging, they navigate them pretty well, and they're there to support each other during this maybe season of life that some of them may have lost a spouse, and they're now living in an apartment by themselves for the first time in 70 years.

So they're navigating this new part of their life, and they're not doing it alone, though.

And I think that's the most important thing.

They have a community of seniors around them who are maybe roughly around the same age and stuff like that, but also they have a community of staff members that are also like family.

And I think that's a component of both places that I've worked at, which are both fantastic.

The staff really and the residents just, they enmesh in the best ways.

And I think that that is a really strong foundation to build, you know, other aspects of your relationships off of.

It's like a community at the...

Community within a community.

Yeah.

Because, and I think about the reason why I ask about death is, I know generally, generally, aging is related with, associated with like mortality, right?

And like the fragility of life.

And we think more about that.

And also there's like more wisdom with mourning.

And that can be hard for you, right?

Because you get to build relationships with people and you really enrich those people's lives.

So what was that like whenever you first had to deal with that?

Whenever you first.

You know, professionally, trying to keep it cool and keep my emotions in check.

But at the same time, because you grow to have these really strong relationships with people really fast in these settings, you become emotionally invested and emotionally attached, or at least I have.

And so to see people that you care about, you know, suffering or in pain or mourning, it can be taxing, you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, you know, I want to be here for this person.

But I knew who, you know, so it's definitely one of those things that it is difficult to navigate.

And I didn't know what to expect when I first started working at the skilled nursing facility in 2020.

So it was like, all right, we got COVID.

You're going to start working in a medical facility, which I have no background in.

And let's do this.

I had no idea what to expect.

And I didn't know that foolishly, right, on my part, that like death would be a part of my daily interactions.

Like it could potentially be, right?

Anything could happen at any moment.

And so I think seeing people, you know, who are really, really sick or going through a tough time, even though physically that's what they're experiencing, intellectually and spiritually, for the most part, a lot of them were like super positive.

And, you know, despite maybe what they've been going through, that was really eye-opening for me too, because I think sometimes I focus on, okay, these are my circumstances right now, and I have this attitude about it.

But it's like, even if you are in so much pain, you have the choice to act a certain way.

So I think that was really eye-opening.

But yeah, kind of being confronted with mortality as a young person working in these settings has been transformative.

Yeah.

What would your advice be to someone who is about to be where you were three years ago?

Mm-hmm.

Like kicking it off?

Mm-hmm.

I would say, first of all, if you have the opportunity to work with seniors or in a setting where there's a high, there's a density of aging population there, do it.

It will enrich your life in the most profound ways, even ways that I can't even explain.

It's just a feeling and experience and something that you carry with you.

But yeah, embrace the journey.

I mean, every day is different, and that's the cool thing about it.

But yeah, embrace the journey and know that even if you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna know what to do.

I was so concerned initially about, well, all I've known are museums and art galleries.

However, I think God planted a seed a long time ago in my heart that seniors, these are your people.

You're gonna get to work with them someday in a way that you don't know yet, but you're going to.

And so looking back, as I reflect, on certain moments in my life, I'm like, gosh, that makes so much sense, to see how my relationship with seniors, that's only grown over time.

It's something that's just really taken off.

So yes, embrace the journey, enjoy the unexpected, because that's how it is.

And really just don't be afraid to dive deep and don't be afraid to put yourself out there.

I would always get so self-conscious about, oh, I'm gonna do this activity with them, but people might not come.

And odds are, if you're enthusiastic and you're like, hey, I'm doing this thing, come try it out.

I would love to have you there.

They're gonna show up.

So yeah, I don't know, put yourself out there, enjoy it, just have fun with it.

I remember whenever you had gotten the, you were starting in that role, and middle of COVID, and you packed your bags, because you were living in Winston-Salem at the time.

North Carolina, and you packed your bags and you moved to South Carolina.

And wow, that move, it was so big and bold of you to go out there because you're going on your own.

And I remember there was a moment where we were with Annie, and she was on the seventh floor of her apartment.

Her corner office?

Right, her corner office with beautiful windows.

And we were going down the elevator, and there was a moment where I was like, wow, you're about to go to South Carolina by yourself and start a new job.

And you're like, yeah.

And you did it in the middle of COVID on an island by yourself.

And you had a few people there in the area who were kind of like a fictive family for you.

And you just went for it.

So hearing your advice that you'd give yourself as a younger person or like when you were just starting, I know that you were already carrying those things.

So that makes sense that you would tell it to somebody as well, because that's what worked for you.

You know?

Yeah, it did.

You did a good job with it.

But now you are putting your entrepreneurial cap on.

Outfit change?

Because why?

I shouldn't do the talking.

You should do the talking.

Why recently have you been putting your entrepreneurial cap on?

And what does that look like?

Yes.

So I feel like I should back up a suspension and maybe share a little bit about kind of the origin story, if you will.

When I did work at the skilled nursing facility, it was the best time.

I loved it.

I loved it.

Long term memory care for the most part.

But my director, he was so encouraging and really fully embraced because, you know, typically they are looking for people with some sort of a medical background, whether it be like occupational therapy, physical therapy, exercise science.

They also, you know, just so happened to be looking for somebody with an art background.

And I saw that in the job description and I was like, sold.

But who knows what they're going to think of this young, young chap, you know?

So I remember going in for the interview and I couldn't even find the front door.

Because it was locked down.

Super locked down.

It was like high security.

It was.

And I'm like, oh gosh, they're never going to hire me.

I can't even find the door, you know?

Little did I know that this opportunity would be a catalyst for a project that I'm working on now.

But I think it's important to kind of note the things that I did there.

One of them in particular, you know, I focused a lot on creative opportunities.

So for me, that meant providing different activities where the seniors living in this community could create the things that decorated the space around them.

Because ultimately, and I think you referred to this earlier, this is their home.

So this is where they live.

This is where they're going to be spending their days, especially with long term care.

You know, this is probably where they're going to be for the rest of their lives.

So I wanted to make sure that they were able to contribute to their environment in the ways that they wanted to.

And one of those ways was through creating art, different holiday decorations.

We did an entire Christmas tree where they made every single ornament on this tree.

And they made these larger abstract paintings.

And it became a consistent thing to have one art activity a day.

And it was so exciting to see the residents who had never picked up a paintbrush before, had never made a Christmas ornament before.

I had people who worked higher up as a sheriff and stuff.

And he's like, I've never done any of this before, but I'm in.

And so for me, that attitude of like, I'm just going to try it and see how it goes.

But they really grew to enjoy it.

That was such a cool transformation to see.

And I think really motivated me to continue encouraging them creatively and saying, hey, I have these supplies out, this is what you can do with them.

But also, I want you to have this time to be able to create something that you want to create.

So I'm not like hovering over you, telling you what to do all the time.

But I want you to have the tools to be able to do that.

So anyways, that predominantly was my focus there was to encourage them to be creative in whatever way they thought that they could.

And also encourage them to challenge themselves.

I think there's also that idea of, you know, well, I'm old.

I don't really want to try anything new and whatever.

But I think that that's the point when you should try something.

Did there's it's never too late and there's no time wasted.

So anyways, that was a really good catalyst for a project that I'm working on now.

That's a good foundation, right?

Yeah.

And then what did you learn from seeing them engage in creative activity?

Was there a benefit there?

Oh, my gosh, tenfold.

I think that it really increased their confidence and to say, hey, they get to look up on the walls around them in common spaces or in their rooms, especially, you know, because they can be, they can feel a little bit sterile at times.

And so to brighten the place up and add things that they've made, they're looking up there and they're saying, oh, my gosh, I made that.

Or when their family comes to visit them, they're saying, hey, I made that.

Or their family saying, did my dad paint that?

Because he's never expressed interest in that.

And I'm like, yeah, he actually did.

And they're like, what?

So to see kind of the benefits of their confidence and just their pride in saying, I did this despite being bound to a wheelchair.

You know, they don't, you know, I don't see that as that confining them.

And neither do they, or at least in my experience.

So they're feeling this sense of freedom, confidence in doing those things.

Their family's excited to see their parents or grandparents or great grandparents do these things that they're seeing on TikTok.

They're, you know, I have them doing acrylic paint pours.

Those are things you see on TikTok.

They're cool, too.

They're super cool.

But, you know, I had people in their 80s, 90s and beyond doing these things.

So it's cool to see their family excited and the senior excited.

It's also really rewarding to see them achieve these creative endeavors, you know, regardless of any perceived physical limitations or mental limitations, you know, with anything like Alzheimer's dementia, it's really, you can see the joy on their faces and in their hearts when they're doing these things and they're like, oh, okay, where should I put this color paint?

And I'm like, okay, if you follow, you know, within these lines, that's where you're going to put your red paint and this is where you're going to put your blue paint.

And you know, we're doing things like color theory, so mixing colors and you're figuring out which color combinations make certain things.

So they get excited.

They are really invested in learning.

I've seen that too.

They want to learn.

They want to continue contributing.

And also socially, they interact with each other too.

Even if they don't know what they're doing, they're like, hey, do you know what you're doing?

And the person next to them is like, nah, not really.

So we can bond over this fact that we feel like we're enjoying this, but we don't really know where it's going yet.

And that is one of the coolest things.

Just like we were talking about with community and how it can be more difficult to build a community or to be a part of community, art and creative expression gives the vehicle for being a part of community and being around people.

And the cool thing that I like about groups of people is that we're all different.

You and me between you and I, you're the funny one.

So you bring the jokes and then me, I'm more of like, I'm kind of like the one thinking about TV shows and stuff.

I think you got these flipped, son.

So with that in mind, if we were to get a group of people, of 10 people around, then you'd have the funny person and the jokester and the one who's always serious and the one who's analytical and the one who's a great storyteller.

And you get to express yourself in different ways.

Now in the creative realm, it's the same exact thing, right?

You have the person who's really good at this or who's really good at that or like my mom is, she does this whimsical stuff, like these curves and it looks really beautiful and that's something that she likes and she's gotten to the point to where she really enjoys it.

But then you see these other artists that do the straight lines or that do abstract or whatever, you name it.

So being able to get people together for creativity gives that expression that is like a constant and fun community is having variety.

Totally.

Yeah.

So you've seen the rewards of this.

Yes.

And that leads you to what now?

Yeah.

My project.

No, I do love what you said about the variety of responses and styles of communication that made me think of something.

So I think when I'm just thinking of this instance that happened.

So I gave a bunch of seniors all the same materials, canvases, blank canvases, same color paints, same instructions.

And the instructions were paint a landscape.

It didn't say what kind of landscape because landscape can mean so many different things.

And every single person, there were six residents who did this.

Every single resident painted something different.

And so for me, what you had just said made me think of that because it is so true.

I think that's the power of creativity is you can be given one prompt or one thought or one idea and you'll get six different responses to it visually or verbally.

However, you know, that's communicated.

And so I think that's so neat, too, that adds another just layer to it all.

So, yeah, it totally does.

But all of this, big reveal has led me to with your encouragement, by the way, which you already know, the Joyful Palette Project, which is something I've been working on, you know, for a little bit.

And the goal behind this entire thing is to provide creative opportunities for seniors so that they're able to create works of art that spark joy within themselves, within their communities, within their relationships with people in different ways.

And so it's scaled to meet different needs.

And really, I want to meet seniors where they're at, you know.

I know there's a continuum of care, meaning from skilled nursing all the way to independent living and people still living at home even too, who are just wanting more engagement in that sense.

Yeah.

So I'm excited to kick it off.

Yeah.

You've been working really hard on it.

And I'm excited for you too.

Thanks.

And I know that there can be moments where you're probably nervous about it.

Totally.

I feel like watching you launch Talk to People, right?

You were super calm, cool and collected.

And I'm like, oh, he's like making this look like, like, whoa, like you've made it.

No, seriously, it's so impressive.

And so as I'm kind of walking through this and you've been walking through this with me, really, I'm like, good grief, this guy did all of this and I can barely get my feet off the ground here without kind of getting emotional.

So it's like, I'm super impressed by you and the way that you have launched this entire brand and what you're continuing to do.

Like, it's very impressive and inspiring and motivating for me to watch you.

Thank you.

That's kind of true.

I think it's a good example of how we will have, like everybody around here, that question, I was asking you this question, what is really hard for most people but easy for you?

And something that you're incredibly skilled at is what you were saying, like building relationships with people who are much older than you.

And not only building relationships, like that's, it's cool to be able to be friends with a neighbor who is well beyond your age, but be surpassing that, you're also creating opportunity, you're creating vehicles for expression, like these things that aren't commonplace, you know, and they're not rote, they're not boring.

You don't see them every day.

And I can see that in your life, because you are received with such positivity and gratitude and appreciation, no matter where you work.

It's always like you are like, dang, this girl's got the juice.

Like she's got it.

And, and not many people do.

And that costs you.

I know you go all in and you really dedicate a lot of time there, but it's something you're skilled at.

And I think that with the podcast, one of the things that I struggle with too is putting stuff out there.

But lately I've been, I've been a little, let me think about this.

Don't think, just do type deal.

Okay.

So just like post, boom, just do that.

Just do this.

Just dropping it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And some of the episodes, could I be better?

You know, I bet I could be way better.

Could the guests be better?

Yeah.

They could be way better.

But that idea of just going for it and it's different people have different levels of just go for it, you know, and we need both levels.

Like we need people who are really good at building brands, but then we need people who are really good at managing brands because the vast majority of the time there are two different specialists for those two things and you'll see it with the biggest companies.

You'll see it with the small companies.

You'll see it in bands.

Like you got people who are constantly in new bands and it's like, why don't you just stick with one?

Well, they don't like it.

They like to build the new band and they like that challenge of, wow, this new band's headlining now.

Then after five years, it's like, yeah, we're going to break it up.

We're going to go with this.

We're going to go with that.

So don't be discouraged whenever you may see me drop a new podcast and then you're like, oh man, my project is going much slower because you got the juice over here.

You know what I mean?

So putting the metric of success over here isn't going to serve you well versus like if I were to put my metric of success over here, which I'm screwing myself over to every day because I'm thinking about analytics.

I'm thinking about numbers and that right now should not be where I'm putting, and I say right now really just in general, but should not be where I'm putting any value.

And I talk about that a lot and I think that it's like, I know not everybody who listens to this is creating that content, but it's really relatable.

I just hope that we can find the right metric success, but yours is your ability to create relationships and creative opportunity.

And you're going to be doing it professionally soon with the Palette, Joyful Palette Project.

Yeah, GPP.

Yeah.

And I'm excited for that.

What about you?

What are your feelings when you think about that?

Yeah.

It is super exciting to think about taking these creative experiences and opportunities to a wider audience of seniors.

It's so cool.

I've seen it just work in so many different ways.

And I think it'll be really exciting to see how it takes shape as I continue to move along.

You know, but I think there's so much to be said.

I mean, there's a reason why people travel thousands and thousands of miles or however far to go see the Mona Lisa or Botticelli, right?

There's some draw towards artwork and some of it may be inexplicable.

Some of it may be an emotional thing.

And so I think, you know, there's that desire to learn about, you know, kind of more the academic side of art, which is a component of the Joyful Palette Project, right?

Is the learning part and then the practicing what you're learning part.

But it's also just the actual creation, right?

When you're creating, you're kind of breaking down some barriers.

You're taking down your walls a little bit.

You are communicating visually.

Sometimes words can be hard.

I fumbled a lot during this whole conversation we've had.

Words can be difficult and sometimes you just need an avenue of saying, hey, I want to say this, but I don't have the words right now to say it, so this is how I can say it.

I can say it with a red circle and some blue squares, or I can say it with a really detailed landscape or portrait painting or drawing, whatever media you choose.

I think that it's exciting to maybe foresee this going in that direction of, wow, this could really help a lot of people and it can just maybe uplift a lot of people.

Yeah, it will.

Spark joy, baby.

It will spark joy and it'll be at joyfulpaletteproject.com.

Yeah.

Hitting you soon.

Hitting you soon.

A lot sooner than my photography page.

In your photography page, it's a sleeper right now.

Once it wakes up, it'll be awesome.

It'll be like waking up after a 20-minute nap to where you're not too tired and you feel decently energized.

Yes.

We have two minutes.

What's a good parting message?

Good parting message.

Maybe you should give the parting message.

Well, I can give part of a parting message, then you could finish it or would you rather you start and I finish?

I can finish.

Let's see where you lead me.

I am encouraged talking with you.

One of the things I'm encouraged about is that you are a great example of why it's so important to connect with people who are much older than you.

And you've done a really good job at that, but stories and wisdom and like if you are in life right now and you do not have people that you can mentor who are younger than you and that you can teach.

And you don't have people who are older than you that you can look up to and that you can learn from.

Then you need to get in that spot.

And there are so many different opportunities to get in that spot and so many different organizations that exist to connect younger people with older people.

And not only will it benefit you, but it will help equip you to help a lot of other people out there.

And something that may value, you value not that much like your time, like you're willing to spend four hours on TikTok or three hours on Xbox.

They don't have a lot of it.

And that's morbid to think about, but truly the value of time grows as we age.

So I just encourage myself to get more connected and to not overthink it, but to be a smiling resource.

I love that you can volunteer at any senior living community.

For the most part, you can come volunteer with me.

We'll have a great time.

But yes, get involved.

It can be for an hour calling bingo.

It can be for 20 minutes just visiting with somebody in a community who maybe needs a little TLC.

You know, so I love that.

I advocate everybody challenge you, all the listeners out there.

No, but seriously.

Yeah, no, but seriously, get out there and volunteer.

I think that when you experience what I'm talking about, you'll get it.

It'll click.

You'll be like, I totally get what she's saying.

Because right now, you might be like, I don't know what she's saying, but you will.

You will.

And then come back and listen to it.

Exactly.

Yeah, with a fresh perspective.

But I think we were talking about this earlier.

Last thing, I'll say Susan Koeman.

There's like this group at Stanford and it's lifelong engagement basically.

And she said something super cool.

And I know I talked to you about this.

But the key is pairing great potential with great experience.

And to me, that is like the epitome of intergenerational relationships, right?

There's this great potential that people see in youth.

And then there's this great experience that people see in seniors or the aging population.

And so I think when you bridge those two, you connect those two, it's like we could be just unstoppable.

I think there's so much richness in those relationships.

And I think she said it beautifully.

So Amen, Mia.

Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

I love you more, buddy.

We'll see you next time.