#3 - What We Can Learn About Communication From Door-to-Door Sales [NICK WOLF]

Chris [00:00:08] Okay, So that means you're officially rolling. 

Nick [00:00:10] . Officially

Chris [00:00:11] In the dining room studio. 

Nick [00:00:13] It just kind of happened. 

Nick [00:00:14] We were just talking and it was just so good we could not row on it. 

Chris [00:00:17] I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to be capturing this stuff. Yeah, you know, But you had just mentioned and we were talking about the importance of. Whenever you talk to people, you need to talk to people of every single demographic. Yeah. Yeah. And that's been the goal here is. I've had people on and there may be some commonalities there, but whenever I'm like talking about this and marketing it, it's always if you listen, I promise you'll be able to relate with one guest. And if not, then give it some time because I'll get another guest on. Yeah. And then I say, if you can't relate to anybody at all, then contact me because maybe you should be on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nick [00:00:58] Yeah. I think that's great. And I think first, I think. 

Nick [00:01:02] Just what you're doing here is it's just it, it's a really great concept. Just, I mean. 

Nick [00:01:11] There's so many I mean. 

Nick [00:01:13] Billions of conversations that happen every day. And obviously we can't capture all of them. But at. 

Nick [00:01:19] Some. 

Nick [00:01:19] Point in billions of conversations that happen, you know, all around the world every single day, there's something that's. 

Nick [00:01:27] There's something that I need to. 

Nick [00:01:29] Hear that I don't hear because I'm not a part of that conversation. So. 

Chris [00:01:32] Right. 

Nick [00:01:33] You know, I. 

Nick [00:01:34] Just I think the concept of. 

Nick [00:01:36] Of this podcast is. 

Nick [00:01:38] Great. I think it's something that that people need. And I think it's. 

Nick [00:01:41] Going to benefit. 

Nick [00:01:42] A lot of people. 

Nick [00:01:43] Because, you know, I, I like to have conversations with people. 

Nick [00:01:48] But there may be something that in that. 

Nick [00:01:50] Conversation that somebody needs to hear that they don't get to hear because, yeah, I have that conversation with them. 

Nick [00:01:55] And maybe I think there's people that maybe don't know. 

Nick [00:01:59] How to have conversations with people that would benefit from hearing conversations with. 

Chris [00:02:03] People. Yeah, I think so. Have you heard of this gpt i a. Hmm. So it's this new i a like neural model that. These this company called Open I'd just developed and it's a chat bot and you can go in to this chat bot and give it a prompt and say create a blog post about podcasting. And within seconds it'll spit out this blog post. So people are using it for content creation. But for the longest time I've always been thinking like, we can talk to Siri right now and we can talk to Alexa and talk to the Google products. And I think there's going to get a point to where we're going to be able to have full fledged conversations with these robots and these AI. And we may be actually physically speaking, talking to these robots more than we're actually talking to the humans around us. So I think there's even an increase of importance whenever it comes to, hey, here's what face to face human interaction looks like. 

Nick [00:03:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think. 

Nick [00:03:05] Yeah, that's that's interesting. 

Nick [00:03:06] I actually just. 

Nick [00:03:09] ROV was an article. 

Nick [00:03:10] Or it was something that I. 

Nick [00:03:11] Caught on Google the other day about how restaurant servers are making less money. But it's not because people are tipping less, people are tipping more. However, when you go into a restaurant, the interaction that the server has are in between bouts of looking at your phone. Right. And so people are sitting longer. 

Nick [00:03:33] They're not having. 

Nick [00:03:33] Conversations that involve the server, the waitress, the waiter. You know, it's like, you know, can I get your drinks? Okay. And then they're back on their phone. Can I get your food? Okay, You're back in your phone. 

Nick [00:03:45] So we. 

Nick [00:03:46] Were we. 

Nick [00:03:47] Live in a culture right now where. 

Nick [00:03:49] There's a lot of value placed on tipping versus, you know, our grandparents, where it was like, okay. 

Nick [00:03:54] A dollar 50, no matter what. Good servers, bad service, a dollar 50, you know. And so we're in a time right now. 

Nick [00:04:00] Where there's a lot of importance placed. 

Nick [00:04:03] On letting somebody. 

Nick [00:04:04] Know they did a good job by tipping or even over, you know, over tipping. But we're we're. 

Nick [00:04:12] Seeing even, you know, you go to a restaurant, you're sitting across. 

Nick [00:04:14] From somebody, but. 

Nick [00:04:16] How much are you. 

Nick [00:04:17] Actually sitting across from that person versus, you know. 

Nick [00:04:21] Sitting across. 

Nick [00:04:22] If you will, from Facebook or, you know, you're. 

Nick [00:04:26] Texting ten other. 

Nick [00:04:27] People while you're sitting across from your significant other, your good friend or or maybe even somebody you just met. Yeah. You know, so. 

Nick [00:04:33] So there's a degree of, you know, and I'm not a I'm not a. A psych. 

Nick [00:04:38] Major or anything like. 

Nick [00:04:39] That. I just I'm just observant, you know? 

Nick [00:04:41] And you know that that article really. 

Nick [00:04:44] Kind of hit home for. 

Nick [00:04:45] Me because it's like, well, you know. 

Nick [00:04:47] My wife and I, we have. 

Nick [00:04:48] Two kids and, you know, it's like. 

Nick [00:04:51] How we get a date night once every six months. How much of that. 

Nick [00:04:54] Date night are we spending interacting with one another versus. 

Nick [00:04:58] Hey, it's just nice to be able to be. 

Nick [00:04:59] On my phone without a kid. 

Nick [00:05:01] Climbing on my. 

Nick [00:05:02] Shoulder to look at it, you know, And that that really. 

Nick [00:05:06] You know, take that for what you will. But, you know. 

Nick [00:05:09] As electronics play a bigger role in what we do. 

Nick [00:05:14] And some of it's not by choice. There's just a lot of. 

Nick [00:05:16] Things that electronics are Yeah. Are changing the game in that that make us more efficient. 

Nick [00:05:23] But I think it's taking a lot of. 

Nick [00:05:25] The social aspect out of, you know. 

Nick [00:05:28] Like, like social media. But how social are you being when you're. 

Nick [00:05:32] On social. 

Nick [00:05:32] Media? 

Chris [00:05:33] Totally, yeah. You would really enjoy this book called Reclaiming Conversation by Sherry Turkle, and she's a professor at MIT, so her daily life is living in the. Vanguard of technology. Right. And MIT is supposed to be the top place of the brightest minds whenever it comes to cutting edge tech. But her whole thing is maybe this technology, what it's promising to do, maybe it's actually giving us a substitute that's a lot less. Efficient and a lot less effective than what it's promising to be. So social media, we're more connected and accessible than ever before. Yet we're dropping in empathy because whenever I tweet you like, Hey, you suck and you start crying. I can't see that facial expression. Therefore I don't associate. Hey, whenever I tell someone they suck and they start crying. Maybe I shouldn't do that. But instead she did this research and she called it The Empathy Diaries because she went and looked at elementary schools and middle schools about how with this increase of digital technology and communication through that, there is a decrease of observed empathy in all of the kids. And her whole book is talking about she wants to reclaim face to face interaction. And it's not that she's against or anti-technology because like you said, it's completely what's that word, whenever they call it the entrepreneur disrupted the society and how we do things. But it's not a perfect one for one substitute of like human interaction. 

Nick [00:07:18] Yeah, well, and I think, you know, and again, I'm not I'm not any. 

Nick [00:07:23] Any kind of scholar, but. 

Nick [00:07:25] In my. 

Nick [00:07:26] Observations. 

Nick [00:07:27] The things that give. 

Nick [00:07:28] Us access also tend to give us an escape. Mm hmm. And so. You know. 

Nick [00:07:36] And, you know. So on Monday night, I hope. 

Nick [00:07:38] I host a group of of dads to my house. And we just talk about, you know, just different. Things through the lens of fatherhood. And it's really great and it's a lot of really, really great guys. 

Nick [00:07:52] But one of the things. 

Nick [00:07:53] That we talk about. 

Nick [00:07:54] Without getting into too much detail, one of. 

Nick [00:07:56] The guys, the guys in my group has a kid that's just struggling with some things. And. 

Nick [00:08:03] You know, one of the points. 

Nick [00:08:04] That I brought up, you know, was how. 

Nick [00:08:07] Hard must it be to be a young teenager right. 

Nick [00:08:12] Now. 

Nick [00:08:12] For the sake of, you know, when when you. 

Nick [00:08:14] And I were going to school? I mean, I'm 36, so I went to school in the nineties. 

Nick [00:08:19] Yeah. And when I was going. 

Nick [00:08:20] To school, your social circle is like five or six people if you're really popular, maybe 12 to 20 people, it was your social circle. 

Nick [00:08:29] So you have to impress 20 people at the. 

Nick [00:08:33] Most, right? You know, now, you know, with with the advent of social. 

Nick [00:08:38] Media and TikTok and, you know, all these all these things that I sound. 

Nick [00:08:42] Like a boomer, if I try to. 

Nick [00:08:43] List them all off. But all these, you know, new fangled things that these kids are doing, and now all of a sudden your. 

Nick [00:08:49] Social circle. 

Nick [00:08:49] Becomes 7 billion. Yeah. So now instead of I think, you know, we're seeing this phenomenon happen where instead of now having to capture the attention of 20 young people. 

Nick [00:09:06] We're now having to capture the attention of billions of young people. 

Nick [00:09:10] And it and it's making young. 

Nick [00:09:12] People go to some extremes to. 

Nick [00:09:15] Get that attention. And and I'm not I'm not necessarily you know. 

Nick [00:09:21] I don't necessarily want to weigh in on my thoughts on things like, you know, gender versus perceived gender. 

Nick [00:09:27] And things like that. But I think no matter what your position on that subject, I think everyone would agree. 

Nick [00:09:33] That there are some pretty extreme. 

Nick [00:09:36] Things happening just to be. 

Nick [00:09:38] Comfortable in a social setting, because now social circles are billions instead of tens. Yeah. 

Chris [00:09:44] That makes a lot of sense. I can attest to that because with this podcast I've developed a few different social media sites and I didn't have an Instagram before this, so I made the Instagram, I made a Tik Tok and I find myself scrolling Tik tok and the stuff that goes viral. I'm like, What? Yeah, how does this even work? And I know that there's an algorithm that follows engagement and followers, retention and followers. What you do after you watch this video and and effects this video. And so there's a science behind it, but at the same time, the content that everybody's consuming, it's mindless. And I even see myself whenever I create content, letting that influence and kind of like persuade what I create, like the videos I've created, most of them are just goofy. Like that's my goal is just to get people to laugh. But I remember I made one video and it was just a picture with a few other pictures and it got the most likes out of all of my videos, and I was like, What the heck? This is the one that I put the least amount of thought in. And it it was frustrating a little bit, but it just goes to show, like all of this technology and having access to 8 billion people or 7 billion people, it makes things really fickle. What got you to start that means group? 

Nick [00:11:05] Well, there was there was I saw a need so it was it is it's. 

Nick [00:11:10] Through it's through church. And I. 

Nick [00:11:13] Had had a couple of. 

Nick [00:11:14] Dads that just had some questions. I've got an eight year old son and eight year old stepson and a five year old daughter. And so there were just some newer dads that had some questions and they were getting ready to kind of get all the groups together. And I just saw a need. And it was like, as far as I know, there's never been in our lineup of groups, one just for dads, you know, and I looked at some of the other groups I'd been in and I was like, you know. 

Nick [00:11:44] Incidentally, some of the like heavy. 

Nick [00:11:46] Hitters from each group that I was in, the guys that I was like, I want to really. 

Nick [00:11:51] Sit down and dig deep. 

Nick [00:11:52] With this guy. 

Nick [00:11:53] And it just kind of so happened. 

Nick [00:11:54] That they were all dads. So I was like, Man, I'm going to move forward with this. And and I did. And we have eight. 

Nick [00:12:01] Eight guys. 

Nick [00:12:03] Plus me. Wow. And it and. 

Nick [00:12:05] And it's just every single. 

Nick [00:12:07] Monday night or, you know, we kind of start to dive. 

Nick [00:12:11] In a little bit. And there's. 

Nick [00:12:12] Always that one moment where we're like, okay, let's. 

Nick [00:12:14] Let's dig let's dig in on that. 

Nick [00:12:15] I think that's a really good thing. And it's like every every Monday I walk away and I'm just like, wow, wow. That was really. 

Nick [00:12:24] You know, and. 

Nick [00:12:25] As and as parents, as fathers. 

Nick [00:12:29] Sometimes that can be. 

Nick [00:12:30] A sore spot. So. 

Nick [00:12:31] You know, one of the things. 

Nick [00:12:32] That that really made me want to do that group is, is I just I think. There's a need for I hate to use this word in 2022, but. 

Nick [00:12:42] I think there's a need for. 

Nick [00:12:43] A safe space for fathers and men to be vulnerable. Yeah, because. 

Nick [00:12:50] Nothing, nothing in this. 

Nick [00:12:53] World. 

Nick [00:12:54] As a man will make you feel more invaluable. 

Nick [00:12:58] Than your. 

Nick [00:13:00] Kid. 

Nick [00:13:00] Giving you feedback. 

Nick [00:13:02] About how you're doing as a. 

Nick [00:13:03] Father. You know, your kids just have a way of. 

Nick [00:13:06] Of cutting right to the heart and, you know, and so and so my heart was, hey, let's. Let's just get a. 

Nick [00:13:13] Place where we can get together. You know, I put a fire in the fireplace. We put some, you know, some music on, and let's just. 

Nick [00:13:22] Let's just chat. And if we get goofy. So what. 

Nick [00:13:26] If we. 

Nick [00:13:26] Get deep? So what if we get vulnerable? So what? 

Nick [00:13:30] You know, we're. 

Nick [00:13:31] We have. 

Nick [00:13:31] Feelings. Let's let's. 

Nick [00:13:33] Let's feel them. And I'm not a I'm not. 

Nick [00:13:36] Typically a feeler. 

Nick [00:13:37] So, you know, in a way, I kind of wanted to. 

Nick [00:13:40] You know, selfishly have that space for myself of, you know, these are these are all guys that I trust that I know aren't going to judge me and I'm not going to judge them. 

Nick [00:13:52] And let's just let's just be vulnerable. 

Nick [00:13:55] Together, whatever that looks like, if it means that. 

Nick [00:13:57] We. 

Nick [00:13:58] That we just. 

Nick [00:13:59] Kind of laughed together. 

Nick [00:14:00] For an hour. 

Nick [00:14:01] You know? 

Chris [00:14:02] Yeah. 

Nick [00:14:03] You know, that's. 

Nick [00:14:03] That's just as exciting as. 

Nick [00:14:05] As if we cry together for an hour. If we or if we get. 

Nick [00:14:08] Really. 

Nick [00:14:09] Intense for an hour, you know? 

Chris [00:14:12] What is it about being vulnerable that you think's important? 

Nick [00:14:16] I mean, that would be a good question for somebody as a psych back. 

Nick [00:14:20] For for for a little background. Just, you know, I keep saying I'm not I'm not a psych major anything. So I'm I'm a. 

Nick [00:14:26] Contractor by trade. I've only ever known putting my hands to stuff. I went to school to be an auto mechanic. You know, I do that in my spare time. I was in sales for ten years and now I'm back and I'm a contractor that puts my hands to, you know, hard, dirty work every day. 

Nick [00:14:44] So if that gives somebody a little bit of. 

Nick [00:14:46] Perspective is, you know. 

Nick [00:14:48] Everything that I say. 

Nick [00:14:49] Comes from just the perspective of somebody that observes, right, other people. 

Chris [00:14:53] And what most people would argue is that that work that you're doing of actually putting your hand to the stone or putting your hand to the brush of the hammer, it it's a lot more effective and a lot more important than the ivory tower of the thoughts and the ideas. Um, what's your favorite part about your job right now? 

Nick [00:15:14] You know, I was just. 

Nick [00:15:16] I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. 

Nick [00:15:19] So I've been I've been out of sales and. 

Nick [00:15:21] In a contracting now for for. 

Nick [00:15:23] A. 

Nick [00:15:23] Little over three years. August was three years. 

Nick [00:15:26] And the best thing. 

Nick [00:15:28] About it is so when you're in sales, it doesn't matter what you did yesterday. 

Nick [00:15:34] You know, if somebody somebody broke. 

Nick [00:15:36] A record, shattered a sales record on Tuesday. 

Nick [00:15:41] And then midnight on. 

Nick [00:15:42] Wednesday hits, guess what? Tuesday doesn't matter anymore. 

Nick [00:15:45] Because now you're back at. 

Nick [00:15:46] Zero when the clock strikes 12, you're back at zero. 

Nick [00:15:50] And what I like. 

Nick [00:15:52] About what I do now is that. 

Nick [00:15:55] Every thing that I. 

Nick [00:15:57] Do. I can go back in five years and I can see it. 

Nick [00:16:02] In fact, I was just over. 

Nick [00:16:04] At the first the very first job that I did for the place that I work the other day and was able to see the very first work that I did and was like I was out of practice. 

Nick [00:16:16] Oh, really? When I did that. Yeah. And you know, there is this there's just, you know, some. 

Nick [00:16:21] Just some finished work that just wasn't great, you. 

Nick [00:16:23] Know, that now. 

Nick [00:16:25] I'm like, man, that would have been that would have taken me the same amount of time to get it. Not nicer, you know. 

Chris [00:16:31] Yeah. 

Nick [00:16:31] And, and but I mean, but the point is I can go back. Three years later. And I can see that and I can see two things. 

Nick [00:16:40] First of all. 

Nick [00:16:40] I can see that what I did may. 

Nick [00:16:42] Makes a difference because I made a place for somebody to live. 

Nick [00:16:46] And and the person that lives there now. 

Nick [00:16:49] Has been there for over two years. And I can go back. 

Nick [00:16:53] And see like they've made this a home. 

Nick [00:16:55] Like this is their home. You know, I do primarily stuff for rentals. And, you know, it's like this is this is somebody's home. 

Nick [00:17:02] They've made a. 

Nick [00:17:02] Home out of, you know, my hard work has provided somebody not just with a house, but with a home. Yeah. And they're all their stuff is there and they're, you know, it's the way they want it. 

Chris [00:17:11] Go shelter. 

Nick [00:17:12] It's their shelter. Also, I can go back and I can see like, hey, I've improved. 

Nick [00:17:18] I've gotten better. And, you know, I've. 

Nick [00:17:22] Taken skills that I've taken skills that. 

Nick [00:17:24] I've already. 

Nick [00:17:25] Knew and made them. 

Nick [00:17:27] Better. But I've also learned some new skills that maybe when I started, I would have had to depend on somebody else. Yeah. And I have those skills. So. 

Nick [00:17:37] You know, that's that's what. 

Nick [00:17:38] That's what drew me to. That's what drew me to this. 

Nick [00:17:42] I mean, I just my my. 

Nick [00:17:43] Dad owns a plumbing company. My grandpa was a bricklayer. I mean, we've just kind of been a construction family, just a hard working family. 

Nick [00:17:53] And so it was kind of like always my fallback, you know, I guess somewhere along the way, I. I thought maybe. 

Nick [00:17:59] I'd be wearing a suit in a big office and just collecting a big. 

Nick [00:18:03] Sales paycheck at some at some point, you know, And I've sold. 

Nick [00:18:07] Everything under the sun. But. 

Nick [00:18:08] You know, it's like it's just not it's just not. 

Nick [00:18:11] Rewarding, you know, when you have to wake up every day and kind of start over. 

Chris [00:18:15] Was there something that happened that prompted the transition from sales to contracting? 

Nick [00:18:20] Not necessarily. You know, sometimes those epiphanies, they just happen. 

Nick [00:18:24] You know, I just I just kind of woke up and was like it. 

Nick [00:18:27] So the place that I. 

Nick [00:18:28] Was working right before, right before I left sales was a. 

Nick [00:18:33] Place that I'd wanted to work. 

Nick [00:18:35] For a long. 

Nick [00:18:35] Time. It was an automotive. 

Nick [00:18:36] Industry adjacent, and. 

Nick [00:18:38] I got a great deal. 

Nick [00:18:39] On parts to do some of my restorations and stuff like that. And so it. 

Nick [00:18:43] Was kind of like. 

Nick [00:18:44] A dream, like a dream for me to work at this place. 

Nick [00:18:48] But it was sales. It was still. 

Nick [00:18:49] Sales, if that makes sense. 

Nick [00:18:51] You know? So it just I just. 

Nick [00:18:52] Woke up one day and was like, Man, if like. 

Nick [00:18:55] This if like this dream is. 

Nick [00:18:57] Still. 

Nick [00:18:58] If I wake up every day. 

Nick [00:19:00] And I'm like, I don't even want to drive in there because I just I got to start. 

Nick [00:19:03] Right over where I did. 

Nick [00:19:04] Yesterday and the day before, the day before. 

Nick [00:19:06] And and that just kind of started a tugging. 

Nick [00:19:08] At my heart of. We need a change. 

Nick [00:19:12] And I didn't know what that change looked like. 

Nick [00:19:14] In fact. 

Nick [00:19:15] I knew that I was going to leave and I had interviewed for. 

Nick [00:19:19] A different job. 

Nick [00:19:20] So I'm, you know. 

Nick [00:19:22] Probably listening. I'm a musician as well. I've been playing the drums since I was eight years old. 

Nick [00:19:27] And so there's a local. 

Nick [00:19:30] Drum building place in Overland Park. And I had interviewed there and I was pretty sure I was going to get the job. 

Nick [00:19:36] And I just wanted out of sales so. 

Nick [00:19:38] Badly that I asked a guy at our church. 

Nick [00:19:41] Hey, can I just I just need. 

Nick [00:19:43] Some work for a little bit. I want to transition out of, you know, I'd already unloaded all of my clients, so I wasn't making any commission really. So I was basically just showing up for free every day. I was equivalent of like four bucks an hour every day. And, you know, you can't really support a family on that. So. 

Nick [00:20:02] So. I just I had. 

Nick [00:20:04] Asked the guy that I work for now. Hey, do you just have anything to get me by? You know, something that'll take, you know, maybe two, three weeks, a month, just until I can move into this other job and. 

Nick [00:20:15] I got in there in just about two weeks. 

Nick [00:20:20] And I was just about wrapping up with the job and I was like. 

Nick [00:20:22] This is this is what I. 

Nick [00:20:24] Want to do. And so I sat down with him and had a conversation and said, Hey, with your blessing, I'd like to call the drum shop and tell them thanks, but no thanks. Wow. And and he said, Well, you know, that's that's all well and good. Just just. 

Nick [00:20:41] Be. 

Nick [00:20:42] Advised that we slow down in the winter. And I may not have worked for you when it's cold, but we'll do as much as we can. And since I've worked there, we have not had not even one day where I didn't have work to do. So. 

Chris [00:20:54] How cool is that? 

Nick [00:20:55] Yeah, it's been it's been. 

Nick [00:20:56] Just it's been huge. 

Nick [00:20:57] It's been huge. It's it's allowed us to to relocate here. Here to town. And, you know, just, just be close to a lot of things that. That we love. 

Chris [00:21:06] So. How did you feel when you were calling the jump shop? 

Nick [00:21:09] Well, I felt. I felt like it was going to come back to bite me. Like I felt I felt like I was going to say, Hey, you know, I got another job. You know, I did it respectfully. I, I got another job. I think I'm going to I'm going to stick around here. 

Nick [00:21:22] So, you know, I appreciate you guys. You guys look, you know. 

Nick [00:21:26] And they hadn't actually told me I. 

Nick [00:21:27] Got the job or anything yet. 

Nick [00:21:28] So it was kind of a little bit arrogant on my part. But I called them was like, hey, I don't know what you guys decided, but I went ahead and took another I've accepted another job. 

Nick [00:21:37] So. 

Nick [00:21:38] You know, thanks for interviewing me. And, you know, they had picked my. 

Nick [00:21:41] Brain on some on some, you know, my auto body background on some paint and finish ideas in my interview. And that's a good sign. 

Nick [00:21:51] Yeah. Yeah. 

Nick [00:21:52] So I was like, you. 

Nick [00:21:52] Know, if you guys need any other. Any other help. 

Nick [00:21:55] Any other advice. You know. 

Nick [00:21:57] Feel free to reach out, you know, but. 

Nick [00:21:59] You know, so so thanks anyway. But I'm going to you know, I'm going to accept this other job. And then they just they were like. 

Nick [00:22:05] Who are you again? 

Nick [00:22:06] No, they didn't say that. 

Nick [00:22:07] But, you know, they just yeah, they, they they said, you know, good luck to you and. 

Nick [00:22:11] You know, thanks for thanks for the interview. And and we kind of moved on. But, you know. 

Nick [00:22:16] It sometimes it's scary to to leap over. 

Nick [00:22:19] A gap like that. 

Nick [00:22:21] And it doesn't always you know, there's calculated. 

Nick [00:22:25] Risk, you know, obviously. 

Nick [00:22:26] But the. 

Nick [00:22:27] Culture of where I work. 

Nick [00:22:29] In and it's small, there's only there's only five of us. 

Nick [00:22:32] Now and we've grown in the last three years. So I was one of three people when I started. 

Nick [00:22:38] And so to take a leap like that of. 

Nick [00:22:43] Hey, I don't I don't know if I'm going to have work for you. 

Nick [00:22:46] You know, we're only a couple of years in. I don't. 

Nick [00:22:48] Know if we're going. 

Nick [00:22:49] To even make it, you. 

Nick [00:22:50] Know. 

Nick [00:22:50] And it's it's scary. But I think there's something that. 

Nick [00:22:55] Happens when your mind and want to see your subconscious. I don't know how to how to say. 

Nick [00:23:02] This without sounding new wave. 

Nick [00:23:03] Science. 

Nick [00:23:04] But when you when you go when you go to a place, whether it's a job. 

Nick [00:23:09] Or. 

Nick [00:23:10] Just somewhere that you're visiting or when when you recognize. 

Nick [00:23:14] Good culture. There. It's hard to ignore that. 

Chris [00:23:18] Yes. 

Nick [00:23:19] And I just I think that that was and I was on my. 

Nick [00:23:23] Own for the first month. I didn't meet any of the other guys that I worked with. I was on my own on a job site by myself every day. 

Nick [00:23:30] But just the the. 

Nick [00:23:31] Owner of of the the owner of the company just interacting with him and just. 

Nick [00:23:37] Seeing a little bit of. 

Nick [00:23:38] His heart just in the way that he interacted with me on a daily basis and and knowing his heart for putting people in homes. 

Nick [00:23:46] You know, just that culture is undeniable. 

Nick [00:23:48] Mm hmm. And so. 

Nick [00:23:49] You know, once once I got a. 

Nick [00:23:50] Little bit of that exposure to that culture, I was like, I. 

Nick [00:23:54] It's going to be. 

Nick [00:23:54] Hard for any other job to match that no matter what it's doing. 

Nick [00:23:59] You know, in building building custom drums. 

Nick [00:24:01] Is it a dream? I mean, custom instruments is a dream of any musician. Mm hmm. Because you're. Because you're right there. 

Nick [00:24:08] You're right into exactly what you want to do. 

Chris [00:24:11] Yeah. 

Nick [00:24:12] You know, so it was a leap. So it felt, you know, it felt it was intimidating. But there's just something about good culture that. You intuitively. 

Nick [00:24:20] Follow? Mm hmm. Yeah, that's what I did. 

Chris [00:24:23] Steve Jobs has a quote that's like, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow always know where you want to go. Or like, I'm butchering the quote, but the preface of it is always follow your heart and intuition. And it's funny the way that works, especially with culture, because oftentimes we apply to a job and then we go through this interview process, but we don't really know what the culture's like because we haven't been there. Then we show up and we got the job and it's like, Shoot, I actually don't like this culture. So then it's a big mess and you have to leave and get a different job. So that's cool that you had already found. But you got to experience the culture before you really committed to the job. Yeah. Which is nice. 

Nick [00:25:05] But, you know, if you. If you. Not everybody knows what. 

Nick [00:25:09] Culture is for them or what good culture means to them. 

Nick [00:25:14] But if you ever want to. 

Nick [00:25:17] If you ever want to see for yourself. What? Culture you don't want get a job in sales because sales. 

Nick [00:25:26] I mean, nothing about the. 

Nick [00:25:28] Culture of a sales job is is positive. 

Nick [00:25:32] There's there's positive aspects. I didn't I mean, you know, obviously I did it for ten years. 

Nick [00:25:37] There's good things about it. 

Nick [00:25:40] There's there's good things about sales. But the culture. 

Nick [00:25:44] No matter where I went or what I sold. 

Nick [00:25:46] And that's why I think that's why people in sales. 

Nick [00:25:50] Jump around so much is like. 

Nick [00:25:52] You know, if I found a sales job. 

Nick [00:25:54] With good culture and. 

Nick [00:25:56] 100% honesty. 

Nick [00:25:58] And transparency, I would be inclined to stay there. But it's like, you know, this seems above board and then you get in there and you're like, it's just another another. 

Nick [00:26:07] It's just it's just another group of people that don't sell. 

Nick [00:26:10] Anything that are pushing you. 

Nick [00:26:13] To meet sales. 

Nick [00:26:14] Metrics for items that they themselves have never sold. And I. 

Nick [00:26:20] Have a natural. 

Nick [00:26:22] Skill for sailing. For sailing. 

Nick [00:26:23] I'm good at it. But I. I jumped around so much, I think, because. 

Nick [00:26:27] I was chasing culture and I just. And I never found it. 

Chris [00:26:30] And what does it take to be a good sales person? 

Nick [00:26:34] You know, I mean, I don't think there's really a secret sauce. I mean, there there you know, I'm I'm just I'm the guy that. Then I sold a lot because people ask me. 

Nick [00:26:44] Questions and I have the answers if I don't. I research and you. 

Nick [00:26:48] Know, a lot of sales is just being. 

Nick [00:26:50] Available your price and somebody got a $3,000 item. They're going to have questions about it before they buy it. And there's really not anything. 

Nick [00:27:02] That I can do. 

Nick [00:27:05] To make them want the product anymore if I can't answer their questions. 

Nick [00:27:10] But but I say I say I don't. 

Nick [00:27:11] Think there's a secret sauce because. 

Nick [00:27:13] You know, I'm that guy where I'm like, I'm like, you know, you know, to be honest, you'll probably. 

Nick [00:27:17] Find this cheaper somewhere else. 

Nick [00:27:19] But. I'm not. But I'm not going to. 

Nick [00:27:22] Sell it to you somewhere else. Mm hmm. So, you. 

Nick [00:27:24] Know. You know, and there. 

Nick [00:27:26] Are clients that only buy from you because they like you. You know, obviously, price is a big is a big you know, there's price shoppers everywhere. 

Nick [00:27:34] But, you know, we had a guy on the sales. 

Nick [00:27:35] Floor at my last. 

Nick [00:27:36] Job that yelled and cast in. And I mean, you'd have thought he he hated his clients because he. 

Nick [00:27:43] Answered the phone. 

Nick [00:27:44] And one of my favorite things that he used to say is. 

Nick [00:27:47] You know, I'm not going to give you that price. You're not even my best customer. 

Nick [00:27:51] But he would tell them that. And he was rude, but but he was like in the top five of our entire, like 60, 60 person sales. 

Nick [00:27:59] Force. 

Nick [00:28:00] You know, so. So that's I mean, that's a tough question to answer. But I think I think building relationships. 

Nick [00:28:06] Is a big part. 

Nick [00:28:08] Of sales. So because, you know, when when when somebody likes you or whether they like you or not, if you have a relationship. 

Nick [00:28:14] And they feel like they can trust you, you can say whatever you want. And I've. 

Nick [00:28:17] Tested that. I've said some crazy things to. 

Nick [00:28:20] Clients before that still. 

Nick [00:28:22] You know, that's and, and my last job was. 

Nick [00:28:25] Was a little unique because it was I wasn't. 

Nick [00:28:27] Doing one time sales I was. 

Nick [00:28:29] I was doing you know, I had. 

Nick [00:28:30] Repeat. 

Nick [00:28:30] Repeat business people that, you know, I talk to every day or a couple times a week. 

Nick [00:28:35] And and so, yeah, I've tested that theory. And if if they like you and they trust you, you can say. 

Nick [00:28:39] Whatever you want. 

Nick [00:28:40] You know, you can, you could make fun of their. 

Nick [00:28:42] Grandma, they're still going to give you their money. 

Chris [00:28:45] What's one of the crazy things that you said? 

Nick [00:28:49] I don't know that I want to repeat that. 

Nick [00:28:51] On the on this podcast. I think I know people that listen. 

Nick [00:28:55] You know, just, just. I can't even really I can't. 

Nick [00:29:00] Even think of a of the craziest one. 

Nick [00:29:02] But I mean, just stuff like really with me, it wasn't about being offensive. It was about being. 

Nick [00:29:09] Cocky and arrogant and just like. 

Nick [00:29:12] Hey, that's fine, you know? You know, people would, you know, I need this to be $50 less. 

Nick [00:29:17] It's like. 

Nick [00:29:18] Yeah, well, my direct. 

Nick [00:29:19] Competitor has it for $100 less. 

Nick [00:29:21] So why don't you give me a call back when, when it. And so I was I was selling mechanical automotive parts. 

Chris [00:29:27] Yeah. 

Nick [00:29:29] So I had one shop. 

Nick [00:29:31] That it was like, Gosh, honey, I remember like a $3,000 diesel engine or outmoded. 

Nick [00:29:37] Anyway, but it was a big. 

Nick [00:29:38] Mechanical part. 

Nick [00:29:39] And they said, You know what? You know, I. 

Nick [00:29:41] Need it for. 

Nick [00:29:42] Whatever, you know, let's say. 

Nick [00:29:43] 50 bucks or less, whatever it was. And so I hopped on the Internet and I said, Well, hey, my competitor's got it for a hundred bucks less. So. 

Nick [00:29:49] You know, why don't you call me when it shows up with broken parts. 

Nick [00:29:53] And. 

Nick [00:29:53] All this and you know this and that? And and he said, yeah, I'll call them if they got a tip or I'll call them. And I said, I said, Cool, I'll talk to you Tuesday. When you come in, it shows up and. 

Nick [00:30:02] It's no good. And. 

Nick [00:30:03] And sure enough, it wasn't Tuesday. 

Nick [00:30:05] But whatever the. 

Nick [00:30:07] You know, a few days. 

Nick [00:30:08] Later, the guy called. 

Nick [00:30:09] Me and said, Hey, go ahead, roll. 

Nick [00:30:10] That thing. And, you know. 

Nick [00:30:12] So just just kind of being being a little bit cocky. You know, I've I've always sold. 

Nick [00:30:16] Products that were above board and that were that were quality. And. 

Nick [00:30:21] You know, I don't know, I sold. 

Nick [00:30:22] Kirby vacuums door to door. And when do. 

Chris [00:30:25] You do that? 

Nick [00:30:26] Oh, like 2010 to 2013. 

Chris [00:30:29] For three years. What was that like. 

Nick [00:30:32] Man? 

Chris [00:30:34] Did you go in people's homes? 

Nick [00:30:35] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Knocked on the door and I did the whole demo. And, I mean, you know, it's. 

Nick [00:30:39] A $3,700 home. Home maintenance system. Yeah, it was nuts, man. There's. There's a. 

Nick [00:30:49] Anybody that says the. 

Nick [00:30:52] Professional rock and rollers do are like drug and alcohol fueled have never hung around curvy sales guys because man there's just. There's just. 

Nick [00:31:03] Substance. Substance abuse. I mean, in substance abuse. 

Nick [00:31:06] And sales is just. 

Nick [00:31:08] Hand in hand, except for. 

Nick [00:31:10] The last place I was working, because it was like a professional, you know, but like. 

Nick [00:31:13] That. 

Nick [00:31:13] Outside salesman, it. 

Nick [00:31:15] You. 

Nick [00:31:15] Just see a lot of that, that substance of, you know, people working long hours and late days and they just need that. 

Nick [00:31:21] Something to get. 

Nick [00:31:22] Them through. 

Nick [00:31:22] You know, and then when you get that fat. 

Nick [00:31:24] Paycheck, it's like, well, you know, what am I going to do? I'm going to drink. But, you know, I mean, we we just. 

Nick [00:31:28] We consumed. 

Nick [00:31:30] Something every day, right? Every single day. You know, we get to our day off and it's like, man, we you know, we've we've. 

Nick [00:31:37] Been we've been. 

Nick [00:31:38] Drinking every night after after work for six days straight. 

Nick [00:31:42] Now we're on day seven. 

Nick [00:31:43] We don't have to be anywhere. What are we going to do? We're going to be, you know, we're going to drink. So. 

Nick [00:31:47] Yeah, that was. 

Nick [00:31:48] Really nuts. 

Nick [00:31:49] Man. I mean, there were there were. 

Nick [00:31:50] Fistfights in our office. 

Chris [00:31:52] But the sales job or the. 

Nick [00:31:53] Kirby. Kirby. Yeah. Yeah, often. I mean. 

Chris [00:31:57] Employees fighting employees. 

Nick [00:31:59] Oh, yeah, Yeah. 

Nick [00:32:00] Our fighting managers. I saw a guy jump up on one of the sales manager's desk and start to beat him up, and the. 

Nick [00:32:08] Sales manager. 

Nick [00:32:08] Pulled a gun out, stuck in his face. And, Yeah. 

Nick [00:32:12] Mean. 

Nick [00:32:13] Kirby guys are a different breed. 

Nick [00:32:15] And I definitely. At that stage in my life, I belonged there, but I definitely didn't belong. 

Nick [00:32:23] There in some. 

Nick [00:32:24] Sense. You know what I mean? Like it was it was one of those like it was a step. And at the time that I was standing on that step. I belonged there. And I'm not I'm not judging anybody. But at the time that I was on. 

Nick [00:32:36] That step, I belonged on that step. 

Nick [00:32:38] But I also step it up. 

Nick [00:32:40] To the next step and was able to move on from that life. 

Chris [00:32:43] What was one of the weirdest things you saw during a house demo? 

Nick [00:32:49] Once they let you in, there wasn't a whole lot of weird stuff. I did have a guy that was clearly watching. 

Nick [00:32:56] Me knock doors in the neighborhood because when I got to his door, I knocked on his door and he opened the door and was not wearing not one stitch. 

Nick [00:33:04] Of clothing. Oh, no. And you know, it's like. 

Nick [00:33:07] Like what do you what do you say to that? You know, it's like, do you give him. 

Nick [00:33:10] Do you give him your pitch like, hey, I'm just out. 

Nick [00:33:13] Here, You know, we're just. 

Nick [00:33:14] Cleaning a room, a carpet for everybody. It's like, you know, it's there are some shorts on and let's get this go. And, you know, it's like, what do you really say? So he opened the door and I was just like, You look like you're busy, sir. I won't. 

Nick [00:33:25] Bother you. And and, you know, I went on about my day and it was just. 

Nick [00:33:31] It was not a positive experience for me that. 

Nick [00:33:33] Day. 

Chris [00:33:34] Did you go back to the Kirby guys and tell them the story? 

Nick [00:33:38] Yeah. Yeah. So the way it works. 

Nick [00:33:39] Is in Kirby's, you. 

Nick [00:33:40] Got a. 

Nick [00:33:40] Van full of people and you have one crew leader and they drive around and they drop you off in the neighborhood and you go knock on all the doors, you know? 

Nick [00:33:47] And so that was like, incidentally was. 

Nick [00:33:48] The last house on the street. So I called the van and I was like, Hey. 

Nick [00:33:51] Man, like, I need I need a couple of minutes to wrap. 

Nick [00:33:55] My mind around, you know, what just happened. And, and yeah. 

Nick [00:33:58] So that was that was interesting. We had this thing, one of my. 

Nick [00:34:02] Favorite things and this is going to make me sound really villainous, but. 

Nick [00:34:06] We had this thing it was called. It was called Cherry Coking. So when you Cherry Coke, someone like when you're a crew leader, like maybe they've talked back to you or, you know, you put them in a. 

Nick [00:34:16] House, that's a promising sales situation and they bounce themselves back out because they don't want to be there. 

Nick [00:34:21] Or, you know. 

Nick [00:34:22] Whatever the. 

Nick [00:34:22] Case, they've done some. 

Nick [00:34:23] Wrong. And costs cost you money as a crew leader, cost you a sale. 

Nick [00:34:28] So periodically, you know, you pull up to. 

Nick [00:34:31] A 7-Eleven or quick trip, whatever, and you'll get your your snacks and everything and move on. 

Nick [00:34:37] And so cherry coating is you would roll up to. 

Nick [00:34:41] The gas. 

Nick [00:34:41] Station and you would pretend to be on the phone. So instead of getting out and getting in yourself, whoever that person was on the crew, you'd you'd hand him a. 

Nick [00:34:48] $10 bill and you'd say. 

Nick [00:34:49] Hey, go grab. 

Nick [00:34:50] Me a cherry. 

Nick [00:34:50] Coke. So they'd run into, get you a check, you know, and then they'd, you know. 

Nick [00:34:53] Tell, you know, whatever. Keep keeping your buy something for yourself, keep the change. 

Nick [00:34:57] So they go in there. 

Nick [00:34:59] And they grab a. 

Nick [00:34:59] Cherry Coke. And when the other people on your crew. 

Nick [00:35:03] Heard the term Cherry Coke, they knew, hey, we got to knock it out. 

Nick [00:35:08] The seasoned guys. 

Nick [00:35:10] Knew what that meant. 

Nick [00:35:11] And so they go in to get your cherry coke and then. 

Nick [00:35:14] You just. 

Chris [00:35:15] Leave. You just. 

Nick [00:35:16] Leave. Some crew leaders would come back at the end of the day and pick them up. Some other crew. 

Nick [00:35:21] Leaders would just. Would you just leave. 

Nick [00:35:26] And just leave. 

Nick [00:35:26] Them there and not go back to that gas. 

Nick [00:35:28] Station? And the thought was, you give them a $10 bill. You tell him by Cherry Coke. So now they have something to drink. 

Nick [00:35:32] And a little bit of money for a phone call, you know, to call somebody. 

Chris [00:35:35] To get back. 

Nick [00:35:36] To get back home. But, you know, we typically only. 

Nick [00:35:38] Worked about an hour away from our office. 

Nick [00:35:41] So you were within range. But, you know, I saw guys not personally, but, you know, heard about guys. 

Nick [00:35:48] That would get you know, they'd go and take a week long trip to Oklahoma, go sell down there, and they'd get Cherry Coke to the middle of Tulsa. 

Nick [00:35:55] You know, or the middle of middle Oklahoma City. And it's like, well, what do you call it in? You know, Hey, come. You know, I got fired. Come, you know, pay. 

Nick [00:36:03] Or come. 

Nick [00:36:03] Come pick me up 5 hours away, you know, And, you know, the thing is, is those kind of. 

Nick [00:36:10] Guys or. 

Nick [00:36:11] Those guys that that would happen to you. 

Nick [00:36:14] You didn't actually fire them. In fact, if they. 

Nick [00:36:16] Came back the next day, you were like, Cool, hop on my crew. Let's try this again. Like, I'll explain to you what what you did. 

Nick [00:36:22] Yeah. And, you know, let's go out there and let's get it right, right. You know. 

Nick [00:36:25] And so, you know, you've got a little bit of you got a little bit of. 

Nick [00:36:29] Respect. If you got cherry coked. 

Chris [00:36:31] And you made. 

Nick [00:36:31] It and you came. 

Nick [00:36:32] Back the next day. 

Nick [00:36:33] Because it showed. 

Nick [00:36:34] Some resiliency. 

Nick [00:36:34] But it also showed stupidity. And sales places. 

Nick [00:36:37] Prey on their prey. 

Nick [00:36:38] On stupidity. 

Chris [00:36:40] The organizational antics of the door to door. Kirby Salesman. I would have never guessed. How did you prep? How did you get to the point where you could masterfully sell someone a Kirby vacuum? 

Nick [00:36:54] Yeah. So it was just it was just the same. You know, they give you like they give you like a canned. 

Chris [00:36:59] Script. 

Nick [00:37:00] Pitch. Yeah. And you just I just repetition. I went through the script so many times and also. A trait that I tend to. 

Nick [00:37:09] Have that helps in. 

Nick [00:37:10] Sales is being. 

Nick [00:37:10] Self-aware and knowing like. 

Nick [00:37:14] This doesn't sound like me. This doesn't sound so. You know, I would be going through the pitch and I would say something. 

Nick [00:37:21] And I would say that that. 

Nick [00:37:22] Just doesn't sound. 

Nick [00:37:23] Natural to me. 

Nick [00:37:26] To the way that I talk. And so I would just tweak that a little bit. And, you know, like I said, I. 

Nick [00:37:29] Work there a long time. 

Nick [00:37:31] But, you know, it took me. 

Nick [00:37:32] You know, seven or eight months. 

Nick [00:37:34] To really get it down. 

Nick [00:37:36] To where I could walk into. 

Nick [00:37:38] A house. And basically the only reason. 

Nick [00:37:42] That I wouldn't sell it is if they had bad credit. 

Chris [00:37:44] Because you would get them on credit. 

Nick [00:37:47] Yeah, because you can. 

Nick [00:37:47] Finance a 30 $700 vacuum cleaner. Wow. So. 

Nick [00:37:51] So, yeah, So. So just. Just being, you know, being self-aware. Being self-aware. 

Nick [00:37:57] And just knowing. 

Nick [00:37:58] Just getting the script whittled. 

Nick [00:38:00] Down to I'm. 

Nick [00:38:00] Like, This doesn't. 

Nick [00:38:01] Help. 

Nick [00:38:02] Me. This part of. 

Nick [00:38:03] It doesn't help me. 

Nick [00:38:04] And this part of it does surreally like I would just kind of. 

Nick [00:38:08] Use the logic of like. 

Nick [00:38:10] Hey, if I would, you know, I'd show them. 

Nick [00:38:13] Like an attachment. I'd be like, Hey. 

Nick [00:38:14] If you had this attachment. 

Nick [00:38:16] What's the first thing you would clean? What's the first thing you would do? Oh, well, my, you know, whatever my. 

Nick [00:38:23] Above my cabinets. 

Nick [00:38:23] Gets really dirty. I have no. 

Nick [00:38:24] Way to clean it. Cool. Let me show you this. Hey, look at that. I can clean the top of your cabinets, you know, basically. And that's been my approach. 

Nick [00:38:31] To all sales is. 

Nick [00:38:32] Just getting the consumer to a point. 

Nick [00:38:35] Where they're like. 

Nick [00:38:37] It makes more sense to buy this than. 

Nick [00:38:39] It does to not buy it. 

Chris [00:38:41] Wow. 

Nick [00:38:42] And then. Once you're at that. 

Nick [00:38:44] Point, the. 

Nick [00:38:45] Price. 

Nick [00:38:45] Of it doesn't. 

Nick [00:38:46] Matter. Because because here's the thing is, is there's a thing. 

Nick [00:38:50] That we talk about in sales called price versus cost. 

Nick [00:38:53] The price is what you spend on it. The price is what you would spend to get it. The cost is what. 

Nick [00:38:59] You would spend if you didn't if you didn't get it. 

Nick [00:39:03] And in a lot of times, the price of something, the the the savings, the the savings of the of the cost justify the price. 

Nick [00:39:15] Right. You know. 

Nick [00:39:16] And it's like it's like you go into some homes and they have 30. 

Nick [00:39:20] Different things to clean. Their house. You know. 

Nick [00:39:24] It doesn't make sense to drag all that out. Like, how often do you actually clean your ceiling fans? 

Nick [00:39:29] Well, not very often. 

Nick [00:39:30] Why not? Well, because it's a pain. Well, you know what? If why you were vacuuming. 

Nick [00:39:33] You could just change one thing. Clean your ceiling fans while you're already standing there under it. 

Nick [00:39:36] Well, you know, then it makes then it doesn't make sense not to have one of these, does it? You know, And so and so that's that's kind of been my. 

Nick [00:39:43] Approach to. 

Nick [00:39:43] Sales is, you know, I've always been like a logical thinker, like if I disagree with somebody. On certain things. There are some. 

Nick [00:39:51] Things that I cannot be swayed on. 

Nick [00:39:53] But if I disagree with somebody and they. Calmly walk me through logic. I'm like, you know, I, I can I can consider that like, I can see you have a good point. 

Nick [00:40:06] You know, Whereas if they're just like, oh, you're an idiot, you know. 

Nick [00:40:09] But so I've always been kind of that that way. And so for me, it was just like, Man, if I can just get these people to a point. 

Nick [00:40:17] Where they're like. 

Nick [00:40:18] It logically makes sense for. 

Nick [00:40:20] Me to purchase this. 

Nick [00:40:21] Item. Like that's that's a win like that. So that was my clothes. If you if you had this, what would you clean? Cool. Well, now you can clean everything. 

Nick [00:40:29] You know, you clean every surface of your house. Yeah. 

Nick [00:40:32] You know, and. And now I don't know what you spend on all these other goofy. 

Nick [00:40:35] Gadgets, but this one's under four grand. Yeah. So there you go. 

Chris [00:40:39] You know that metaphor of price and cost? That's awesome. I love that. Because whenever you walk up to the door, the only thing that that person who's answering the door is thinking about is the price. And then after you start talking and have the conversation. You switch their focus to the cost? 

Nick [00:40:59] Yeah. Yeah. 

Chris [00:41:01] Was there anything that you couldn't clean with the vacuum? Whenever you're in person's house and you're like, Shoot, I ain't going to be able to sell this thing. 

Nick [00:41:10] No, but I did see. 

Nick [00:41:12] A guy ruin. A patch of $3,000 bamboo flooring. Oh, no. Trying to clean. 

Nick [00:41:19] It. But I mean, I mean, they really are amazing. Like I have one now. I didn't pay. 

Nick [00:41:23] Retail price for it. I bought it on Craigslist used. But but. 

Nick [00:41:30] I mean, you know, and I'm not selling them now so I can you know, I could say I could say that. But but, I mean, they're they're they're. Made out of stainless steel and titanium and. 

Nick [00:41:41] Kevlar, like all the parts are indestructible. 

Nick [00:41:44] And you can clean literally any surface of a home. And they have a if you buy them retail. 

Nick [00:41:50] From a from a door to door guy. 

Nick [00:41:52] They have a lifetime. 

Nick [00:41:54] Service plan. 

Nick [00:41:55] So, like, if the fan if the Kevlar. 

Nick [00:41:57] Fan breaks. 

Nick [00:41:58] They'll replace it, you know, and and so, you know, it's like it's like made out of indestructible, indestructible material with a lifetime warranty. 

Nick [00:42:06] Yeah. 

Nick [00:42:06] Like, just based on that alone. 

Nick [00:42:08] It's like it's. 

Nick [00:42:09] Silly to. 

Nick [00:42:09] Buy a $40 Walmart vacuum that's going to throw about two months, you know? 

Chris [00:42:12] So that's the pitch, right? Is buy this one vacuum and it's the only one you'll need for the rest of your life forever. 

Nick [00:42:19] Yeah. 

Chris [00:42:20] Nice. 

Nick [00:42:21] Yeah. 

Chris [00:42:21] And that makes 30 $700 seem like, wow. I mean, I'm going to be living for this many more years and this has this many attachments on it, so. 

Nick [00:42:32] Well, one of my favorite. 

Nick [00:42:34] Things to do is, is to walk was to walk into somebody's house and see a Dyson, because those things are like our area almost. 

Nick [00:42:40] At that time were. 

Nick [00:42:41] Only like a grand or 800 bucks for the cheap. 

Nick [00:42:44] Ones. And it's like you know and, and they have like. 

Nick [00:42:48] A ten year warranty or something like that. It's like, well. 

Nick [00:42:51] You know, you're going to live for. 

Nick [00:42:52] 30 more years. You're going to spend this on these Dyson's. 

Nick [00:42:56] And then and then I would. 

Nick [00:42:57] I would go through the pitch. And part of the pitch is designed to show them that their vacuum is not picking up, you know, as much. And Kirby does have patents. On all their on all their machinery that do. 

Nick [00:43:09] Actually make it. 

Nick [00:43:10] More. Work better than your traditional plastic brush or vacuum. 

Nick [00:43:15] So, I mean, it's a legitimate. 

Nick [00:43:16] Product. 

Nick [00:43:17] And that's why. 

Nick [00:43:18] I sold it for so long is like. 

Nick [00:43:19] It is a legitimate. 

Nick [00:43:20] Product. 

Nick [00:43:21] Never mind the sleazy sales. 

Nick [00:43:22] Part of it. 

Nick [00:43:23] Yeah, You know, it is a legitimate product. 

Nick [00:43:25] That's been around since. 

Nick [00:43:26] 1913. 

Chris [00:43:28] You didn't feel like you were lying to people. 

Nick [00:43:30] No. No. And that, you know, that was, you know, just just part of my pitch was just like, you know, this is you know, I had a. 

Nick [00:43:37] Patent book, like a book that showed all the patents of the Caribbean. You know, I was like. 

Nick [00:43:42] You know, And so I would just do this thing. 

Nick [00:43:44] Where I would show them that there Dyson wasn't doing anything, wasn't cleaning anything. And it's like you're going to buy you can buy three of these. 

Nick [00:43:51] You're going to go buy three of these Dyson's. There's a shark or whatever. You're going to spend this four grand from now on. 

Nick [00:43:58] The rest of your lifetime until you can't push a vacuum anymore. 

Chris [00:44:00] Yeah. 

Nick [00:44:01] You know, buy once. Buy, Right. 

Chris [00:44:03] So what would you do with the Dyson? Would you intentionally be bad at vacuuming when you're using the Dyson? 

Nick [00:44:09] Oh, no, no, I would. I would. 

Chris [00:44:10] Was there something you'd throw out that would be difficult to vacuum with a Dyson or. 

Nick [00:44:15] Yeah, well, we. Yeah, we use baking soda a lot, but when I. 

Nick [00:44:17] First got there, I would just say, Hey. 

Nick [00:44:19] You know, I'm going to show you I'm going to show you this demo. But a lot of people know this, but the curvy. 

Nick [00:44:22] It is like shampoos, carpets and stuff too. So it turns into a shampoo or on one machine. 

Nick [00:44:26] But yes, I go in there and say, you know, hey, I'm going to I'm going to shampoo your carpet. You know, I'm going to you know, I'm going to show you a few things about this thing and then. 

Nick [00:44:32] I'll shampoo the room. But before before I do that, I want to get this really, really clean. Can I borrow your vacuum? 

Nick [00:44:38] And so they would get it out, and I'd vacuum both ways, right to left, front to back, you know, I'd vacuum all. 

Nick [00:44:45] Four directions of the carpet. 

Nick [00:44:47] And just say, you know, and and I just kind of. 

Nick [00:44:50] Have a conversation with them. 

Chris [00:44:51] And while your vacuum. 

Nick [00:44:53] Was vacuum, Yeah, just talk to them. Get to know, you know, it's like I said, you can you can be a little more truthful. They'll be a little more truthful with you, especially when it. 

Nick [00:45:00] Comes time for objections. They'll be more truthful. 

Nick [00:45:03] In their. 

Nick [00:45:04] Objections if, if they. 

Nick [00:45:06] Trust you, if they feel like. 

Nick [00:45:07] They know you a little bit. 

Nick [00:45:08] You know. So I just. 

Nick [00:45:09] Talked to them about whatever. You know, I'd look at pictures and like. 

Nick [00:45:11] Oh, are those your kids, you know. 

Nick [00:45:13] Pet their dog? It's one of my favorite things to do in the world is pet dogs. 

Nick [00:45:17] And then after about 10 minutes of. 

Nick [00:45:19] Vacuuming, you know, a single room, I'd say. 

Nick [00:45:21] Is that is that about usually about how clean you get it when you. 

Nick [00:45:24] Vacuum? You know, a lot of times they're like, oh, no, I had to stop vacuuming eight and a half minutes ago. 

Nick [00:45:30] And then and then so the Kirby had this. 

Nick [00:45:31] Little thing that we clipped on the side that had these these little pads that the air could come through. But the dirt, they were like filter pads. And it was just for demonstration. But you put it on there and it would suck the stuff through this air, through this pad, but the dirt would stay. 

Nick [00:45:46] And so the very first that. 

Nick [00:45:48] Pass with the Kirby, I'd pull all this nasty dirt well out of the carpet and just be like. You know that I kind of side. I look at their shark or whatever, you know, or their, you know, $40 Wal-Mart special. 

Nick [00:46:00] Bissell that they had and you know. 

Nick [00:46:01] I pull that first one out and I'd hand it to him and I'd kind of look at that thing and be like, Did I not have the, you know, that I had. 

Nick [00:46:08] There was I not work in that thing? Right. You know, And then at that point, basically from then on, they knew I had them. 

Chris [00:46:14] And every show has begun. 

Nick [00:46:15] Yeah. And, well at that point they knew I had them and then everything. 

Nick [00:46:18] Else was just. 

Nick [00:46:19] Let me show you what this thing. 

Nick [00:46:20] Can do. 

Chris [00:46:21] Yeah. 

Nick [00:46:22] So like the selling the selling. 

Nick [00:46:24] Portion happened very early on. 

Nick [00:46:27] In my demo and then everything else was just like. I know you're going to buy this. Let me show you how to work it. 

Chris [00:46:33] Yeah. 

Nick [00:46:34] You know, and so that was that was kind of how I. 

Nick [00:46:36] Approached my sales. 

Nick [00:46:38] Pitch. And I talk bad about my. 

Nick [00:46:40] Time in Kirby just because it is just such a insane environment. 

Nick [00:46:45] And just just that. 

Nick [00:46:47] Type of direct sales is just hard. And it's there are a lot. 

Nick [00:46:51] Of people that. 

Nick [00:46:52] Aren't trustworthy and. 

Nick [00:46:53] It's just it's just a tough environment. But it taught me the art of the pitch. To where it taught me that I have the ability. To sell to do the selling early on. And there were guys that didn't. 

Nick [00:47:09] Sell the product until the very end, when it was time to be like, Hey, would you. 

Nick [00:47:13] Would, you know, do you like this thing. 

Chris [00:47:15] Like we call to action? 

Nick [00:47:17] But yeah, and, and so I learned very. 

Nick [00:47:19] Very early on like. The call to. 

Nick [00:47:22] Action comes in the beginning. Every like. And that's the most awkward part. 

Nick [00:47:26] Of a sales situation, right? 

Nick [00:47:27] I mean, like you're at the grocery store. 

Nick [00:47:29] Which nobody. 

Nick [00:47:31] I mean, you check. 

Nick [00:47:31] Yourself out at the grocery store now, but I'm a little older, so I remember when there used to be clerks at the grocery store. But it's like that. 

Nick [00:47:38] You know, you check somebody out and they got. 

Nick [00:47:40] $600 worth of groceries. And there's that moment where you're just like, Ooh, I don't want to say the total out. 

Nick [00:47:44] Loud, you know, because. Because you know. 

Nick [00:47:47] What? If this is a mistake, what if it's not really as much, you know? 

Nick [00:47:50] And and so there's. 

Nick [00:47:51] There's an awkward and uncomfortable moment that comes when you're talking about. An exchange of money. An exchange of goods for money. 

Nick [00:48:01] And one of the very first things I did was tell. 

Nick [00:48:04] People how much it cost. Hey, you know, this thing is, you know, here's here's the price sheet. This thing is 3700 bucks. They're for sale. You don't have to buy one, but they're on sale. 

Nick [00:48:13] While I'm here, you know, so. So that just got them thinking. 

Nick [00:48:16] Early on. 

Nick [00:48:16] About money. So. So one thing that that job taught. 

Nick [00:48:19] Me as far as sales goes is. 

Nick [00:48:22] Getting getting the hooks in early on, getting the tension out of the way so that everything else is just. 

Nick [00:48:29] Like fun and like. 

Nick [00:48:31] You know, like I said in my in my head, the way I developed my pitch in my head, it. 

Nick [00:48:36] Was like. 

Nick [00:48:36] Okay, I know you're going. 

Nick [00:48:37] To buy this thing. 

Nick [00:48:38] Now. Let's just have some fun. I'm going to show you how this works. I'm going to clean. I'm going to clean this whole, you know, not just not just the carpet, but I'm going to clean your TV, I'm going to clean your cabinets, I'm going to clean some fans. I'm going to open up your sliding glass. 

Nick [00:48:50] Door and I'm going to clean all the dirt that's. 

Nick [00:48:52] Keeping it from from sliding right in. Like, I'm just going to have some I'm going to put this thing in your hands. You're going to have some fun with it. You know, by the time I leave here, whether you buy this thing or not, you're going to want to use like you. 

Nick [00:49:05] Already want to. 

Nick [00:49:05] So it took a lot of it. And I think one, not one positive. 

Nick [00:49:10] There were a few positives that came out of the job, but. 

Nick [00:49:12] One of the biggest positive. 

Nick [00:49:13] That came out of that job. 

Nick [00:49:14] Was teaching me when I deal with people was to get the. 

Nick [00:49:19] Awkward tension out of the way early and just be like, okay. 

Nick [00:49:24] Now that that's out of the way, you know? And it's helped me and it's helped me tremendously in my marriage. My wife and. 

Nick [00:49:30] I don't have a lot of tense discussions because we have a good marriage. 

Nick [00:49:34] But in marriage, tense discussions do happen. And especially in that type of sales, I was creating a. 

Nick [00:49:42] Problem, right? So the problem is the vacuum that you have doesn't work. There's dirt everywhere. 

Nick [00:49:47] You're living in filth, you know, this whole thing. And and so my demo. 

Nick [00:49:53] Very much lent itself to. 

Nick [00:49:55] I'm creating. 

Nick [00:49:56] A problem. 

Nick [00:49:57] But. Now that I've now that we've had the tension. 

Nick [00:50:01] Of this problem that I've created. 

Nick [00:50:03] Let's have fun and let's. 

Nick [00:50:04] Reach a solution together. 

Nick [00:50:05] And the solution is going to be that you're going to purchase. 

Nick [00:50:07] This from me. 

Nick [00:50:08] And so that's really helped in communicating, especially with my wife. It's like, you know, because it's like, I'll bring that tension of like, hey, we. 

Nick [00:50:16] We need to talk about the budget. 

Nick [00:50:18] But I've created that tension. 

Nick [00:50:20] Early on now, like. 

Nick [00:50:23] Let's have fun and let's you know, these are these are some possible solutions. Like, I've been thinking about some solutions. You know, let's have fun. 

Nick [00:50:29] Let's reach a solution together, you know, with it, like, let's have some fun with our budget. Let's or, you know, whatever it is. Hey, I want to talk to you. I, I really. 

Nick [00:50:39] Didn't. 

Nick [00:50:39] Like that you said that I don't look good in skinny jeans. 

Nick [00:50:44] But. Hey, but hey, you know what? It's okay, because. 

Chris [00:50:47] I've been thinking about these other jeans. 

Nick [00:50:49] Well, it's okay. I'm going to stop wearing your jeans, and I'm going to go get some of my own, you know, So. So, you know. You know. So you know, something like that. And then that's a goofy example. But but it's really just helped in it's helped me connect better with people because my approach is. I'm going to think this through before. I bring it to you. I'm going to create the tension early. And then we're going to come up. 

Nick [00:51:16] With a solution together. 

Chris [00:51:18] Yeah. What a good blueprint for sales. Yeah, that is a really cool strategy and structure. There's this in public speaking. It's like a munros strategy of persuasion. And there's all these different steps. One of them is to grab people's attention. One of them is to, like, conceptualize or imagine a certain scenario. And then whenever you are imagining that scenario, then you introduce a problem and then you talk about how big and bad and dense and impactful this problem is. And then you transition into, well, I think there could be a solution and then you begin to tease that solution and develop that solution. And then at the end, it's kind of like the call to action. Yeah. Okay. Let's let's partake in this, you know, like we were quite daunted by that problem. But there's promise here that this could be a solution. And it's funny that you were stringing that out with Kirby vacuums and not like you were tricking people, but the way that you presented the information and got over the awkwardness. I think that's a really good strategy. Like minimize awkwardness as quickly as you can. And oftentimes, you know what that's going to take like for you say the vacuum is 30 $700. Don't sit in the guy's house for 30 minutes and then think, okay, you've probably been waiting, oh, it's 30 $700. But that's a awesome blueprint for sales. I'm curious about something and. You often mentioned like your weight loss journey. So if you're comfortable with what what's what did that look like? Because I think that a lot of people identify with that. I think that a lot of people navigate similar journeys. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nick [00:53:14] Yeah, we can. Yeah, we can talk about I mean. 

Nick [00:53:16] I'm open about it and I'm open about it in. 

Nick [00:53:18] The hopes that maybe somebody will forget something. 

Nick [00:53:21] So, yeah, in October 21st of last. 

Nick [00:53:24] Year, I had gastric bypass surgery. So I've always been, I've always been, I've always struggled with my weight, whatever you want to call it. People say, Well, I've always been heavy, always been thick. You know. 

Nick [00:53:36] I was a fat kid, you know, you know, I can say it. And I'm I'm. 

Nick [00:53:40] Comfortable saying that it doesn't hurt my feelings, but. 

Nick [00:53:43] Um, and in in 2013. 

Nick [00:53:49] About the time that I stopped selling Kirby vacuums, I got a job at a gym, and I had lost some weight. 

Nick [00:53:55] But I was still like I was in great shape. 

Nick [00:53:57] I was boxing, I was competing. I was doing, you know, these different intense workouts. And I was still. £270. You know, like, I was like, man, I feel like I'm in great shape, but I just. 

Nick [00:54:11] Put the number. 

Nick [00:54:12] Wasn't going any lower. And then I was I was doing a some training at the boxing gym and I hurt myself. 

Nick [00:54:21] And then I kind of took a break. And about that. 

Nick [00:54:24] Time I started dating my wife. And you. 

Nick [00:54:27] Know how that that kind of goes. 

Nick [00:54:28] Is you just you just kind of give up. 

Chris [00:54:32] Yeah. 

Nick [00:54:32] And not. No, I mean, not give. 

Nick [00:54:33] Up, but you're like, man, what do I have to you know what? I have to look good for, you know? 

Nick [00:54:37] And so just over. 

Nick [00:54:38] The last over the next. So we've been together. March will be eight years together. Seven years married. We got married on our one year anniversary. And we've known each other for almost 20 years. We've been good friends for a long, long time. But. 

Nick [00:54:53] So, you know. 

Nick [00:54:54] Marry your best friend. I'll throw that plug in there. 

Nick [00:54:55] But at any rate. And so we started dating. And I just I mean. 

Nick [00:55:00] It was just like the wait just. I mean, faster than I could burn it off by doing anything, just, you know, And then, you know, three years of that, I was working at a desk job where I just sat on a chair and it just got out of control. And I was. 

Nick [00:55:16] At my very heaviest. 

Nick [00:55:17] I was in the mid four hundreds. And I just you just don't feel good. I had some issues with my heart, which is scary, you know? And when doctors say your heart doesn't fire, you need to take medicine every day, which I'm not on anymore after the weight loss. But, you know, I had horrible sleep apnea. Not only was I snoring and keeping everybody awake, but I would hold my breath in my sleep and make some really creepy sounds and I would wake up out of breath like I would just stop breathing in my sleep. 

Nick [00:55:50] And there were just a lot of health implications. But you know, that and just. 

Nick [00:55:56] I mean, obviously, when you're that size, you don't really. 

Nick [00:56:01] You know, people say. 

Nick [00:56:02] Like, oh, body positive, body positive. You don't like how you look at that size. I don't know. Really buy into the hype of the body positivity models that are like, Oh yeah, I'm beautiful no matter what. 

Nick [00:56:14] I agree with that too, to a certain extent. But nobody that's. 

Nick [00:56:20] That size likes how they look. 

Nick [00:56:22] And there's something. 

Nick [00:56:23] Interesting also that happens with your brain because I. 

Nick [00:56:27] I put on my Facebook. 

Nick [00:56:28] A while ago side by side picture of I was like eight months. Post-surgical, maybe. Or maybe, maybe not quite that, but. 

Nick [00:56:37] When I was at my heaviest, I felt I felt like. 

Nick [00:56:41] I looked like the after picture. 

Nick [00:56:45] So to go back and see. 

Nick [00:56:46] The before picture of. 

Nick [00:56:48] What I actually look like, but then actually looking like what. 

Nick [00:56:51] I felt like was like a total mind blow because you're like. 

Nick [00:56:56] Oh, because you're like when I get when I got. 

Nick [00:56:58] Dressed. 

Nick [00:56:59] When I picked an outfit. 

Nick [00:57:01] I felt like I looked one way in it. 

Nick [00:57:04] But now I actually look. 

Nick [00:57:06] Like I feel like I felt. 

Nick [00:57:09] Then. So that's kind of a that's kind of a crazy sidenote. 

Nick [00:57:11] That's kind of a crazy deal with with all the weight loss. 

Nick [00:57:14] But so. So anyway. Yeah, so. So at my heaviest I. 

Nick [00:57:18] Was I was mid four hundreds. I pursued the weight loss thing three years ago and it just. 

Nick [00:57:25] I changed. 

Nick [00:57:25] Insurances a couple of times. So I kind of had to start over the process. 

Nick [00:57:28] But I finally was approved. 

Nick [00:57:29] For it and I got the surgery October 21st of last year. 

Nick [00:57:35] And I've lost about close to £170, somewhere between. 

Nick [00:57:39] Around £670. 

Nick [00:57:40] It it fluctuates day to day. 

Nick [00:57:42] Now that I'm a year out and I can, you know, eat a little bit more, I'm introducing carbs back in a little bit as I expend energy just as necessary. 

Nick [00:57:51] So my weight. 

Nick [00:57:52] Does fluctuate a little bit from day to day. You know, sometimes I'll lose our gain, you know, £2 in a day. 

Chris [00:57:59] Yeah, that's natural. 

Nick [00:58:00] Yeah. Yeah. But, but I'm so I'm between 100 and £670. 

Nick [00:58:03] Lost my weight right before surgery was, was for 22 and I'm right. 

Nick [00:58:08] Now right at about 2. 

Nick [00:58:10] To 50 about that area. 

Nick [00:58:14] And now I'm starting to do you know, it's like a it's like when you have. 

Nick [00:58:17] An older car and like you get the engine replaced and then you're like, man, I'm going to keep up on oil changes and spark plugs and all the maintenance. So, you know, like I've been going to chiropractor and I've been. 

Nick [00:58:27] You know, seeing, you know, different doctors, you know, because it's like now that I'm you have this kind of new lease. 

Nick [00:58:34] On life now I want to keep. 

Nick [00:58:36] When you're that big, you're in. 

Nick [00:58:37] Pain all the time. And so I haven't ever really known the life without pain. I've been having joint pain since I was like nine or ten years old. 

Nick [00:58:46] And so, you know, just going to. 

Nick [00:58:50] Go into different doctors and, you know, like right before I was here, I went to the chiropractor this afternoon and. 

Nick [00:58:55] Do some upkeep and stuff like that. And it really does make you like it really does make you like a little. 

Nick [00:59:00] Bit more conscious of. 

Nick [00:59:01] Man, I need it. 

Nick [00:59:02] I need to foster this. I need to take care of this, this body. And as far as. 

Nick [00:59:07] Speaking to. 

Nick [00:59:08] The journey part of it, and I don't know, I'm kind of a I hate that term just because it's kind of like. 

Nick [00:59:16] To me. 

Nick [00:59:16] It's the it's the. 

Nick [00:59:19] Vinyl live laugh. 

Nick [00:59:20] Love wall stickers of of weight loss. 

Nick [00:59:23] You know. But, you know, I'm kind of a grumpy old man. 

Nick [00:59:25] So, you know take that for what it what you will. 

Nick [00:59:28] But the first thing I'll say is anybody. 

Nick [00:59:30] Who says that weight loss surgery is an easy out doesn't know what they're talking about. It's not a quick fix. It's not an easy thing. 

Nick [00:59:40] So with food, the thing about food. 

Nick [00:59:42] Addiction is it's it's an addiction that you have to have. 

Nick [00:59:46] You're addicted to something that you can't sustain it. Yeah. That you can't quit. And so the first thing that I'll say is that the mental. 

Nick [00:59:55] Aspect of having weight loss surgery is like you're. 

Nick [00:59:58] Literally making your. 

Nick [01:00:00] Body. So you. Cannot have. 

Nick [01:00:04] The thing that. 

Nick [01:00:05] You're addicted to. Hmm. And so. 

Nick [01:00:08] You go to sleep. 

Nick [01:00:11] And you're able to consume whatever you want. 

Nick [01:00:16] And and feed. 

Nick [01:00:17] Your addiction to any degree. 

Nick [01:00:19] And you wake up. 

Nick [01:00:20] And you're now no longer able to feed your addiction. 

Nick [01:00:24] So, you know, it'd be like it would be like if a heroin. 

Nick [01:00:27] Addict had a surgery that made their skin impenetrable. 

Chris [01:00:30] Wow. 

Nick [01:00:31] And they and they. 

Nick [01:00:32] They can no longer shoot up. 

Nick [01:00:34] So mentally coping with that. I still I still. 

Nick [01:00:39] Struggle with because there's still times where I'm I'm stressed out or, you know, the kids are being crazy or I just need some time alone. I just need to put myself in a grownup timeout. 

Nick [01:00:50] And that's what I used. 

Nick [01:00:51] To do during those timeouts is just eat. 

Nick [01:00:53] And, you know, I was never really sweet. 

Nick [01:00:54] Guy, but, you know, I mean, I'll smash a bag of potato chips or, you know, anything savory, you know, there was a saltiness. Yeah, There was a time in my life where, like. 

Nick [01:01:05] I would eat a full. 

Nick [01:01:05] Dinner and then after dinner I would have a snack watching TV and a snack would be a pound of bacon. 

Nick [01:01:11] You know, I like, I'd cook, I cooked dinner and then I'd cook bacon after dinner. And so so those times where I would normally fill that. 

Nick [01:01:20] Emotional void with eating or that coping mechanism with eating. 

Nick [01:01:25] I just all of a sudden just couldn't. 

Nick [01:01:27] And the desire for them didn't change. 

Nick [01:01:29] Like things still taste good to me. But I just I mean, especially. 

Nick [01:01:36] For like the first six months, you just you just can't really eat. And so there's a lot of like. 

Nick [01:01:42] If I never. 

Nick [01:01:43] Drank another protein shake ever in my life, I would I would be okay, be fine. 

Nick [01:01:47] I would be. 

Nick [01:01:48] Perfectly okay with that because. 

Nick [01:01:50] You just you can't eat. 

Nick [01:01:52] Enough food to sustain yourself. So you have to supplement with with liquid liquid protein. 

Nick [01:01:57] So that's the first. The first thing is it's. 

Nick [01:01:58] Mentally it's mentally difficult. It's mentally hard. The second thing is, it's physically hard. 

Nick [01:02:05] Not only for for. 

Nick [01:02:06] A couple of reasons. The first one is. Like I said, you just can't eat and it's hard. Having energy is in the books, but you just. You just. 

Nick [01:02:17] I've just I resigned myself to. 

Nick [01:02:19] I just am never, never going to have energy again. 

Nick [01:02:21] You know that from food and, you know, like now. Now I said I can. 

Nick [01:02:26] Add a few more carbs, but like, I'm I'm like, under 100 carbs a day. 

Nick [01:02:31] And I'm still £250. So to sustain me swing at hammers and up and down on my you know, my. 

Nick [01:02:39] Knees are climb in ladders all day. You know, I burned through that. Mm. Fairly, fairly quickly. 

Nick [01:02:45] And so, you. 

Nick [01:02:46] Know, just, just having energy, just not having energy is. 

Nick [01:02:49] Tough. But at the same time. 

Nick [01:02:51] I can do more. So I'm like. 

Nick [01:02:53] I'm. 

Nick [01:02:53] More active, I'm more active, but I have less fuel. 

Nick [01:02:57] So. So figuring that out and like, you know, do I slow burn. 

Nick [01:03:03] Or do I or do I. 

Nick [01:03:05] Line up and just hit the thruster button and just go, you know, in like trying to figure. 

Nick [01:03:10] Out the scenarios where like, my my energy bank, my, my energy account. Yeah. 

Nick [01:03:18] Just trying to figure out how I can best debit that. 

Nick [01:03:20] Energy depending on what I'm doing. 

Nick [01:03:22] And, you know, a year in a year. And I'm now kind of figuring that out. 

Nick [01:03:28] But things like cold weather, you burn more calories in cold weather. You know, I've. 

Nick [01:03:34] I've. 

Nick [01:03:34] Never been cold before in my life. Now I'm cold. 

Nick [01:03:36] All the time, you know? Yeah. And the other physically. 

Nick [01:03:40] Hard, physically difficult thing is. 

Nick [01:03:43] Just the the shape of your stomach. It doesn't. 

Nick [01:03:45] Allow air to. 

Nick [01:03:47] To come out any more when you eat and drink. 

Nick [01:03:49] So drinking water is difficult. 

Nick [01:03:52] So after surgery. 

Nick [01:03:55] My water goal was like. 30 ounces a day. 

Nick [01:03:59] Which doesn't sound like a lot. But when you I mean literally anything. 

Nick [01:04:05] More than a sip and it would like get stuck and then you're like. 

Nick [01:04:08] Then you don't feel good. 

Nick [01:04:09] Then you're, you. 

Nick [01:04:09] Know, and then you can't and then you can't take. 

Nick [01:04:11] Another sip again for a while. 

Nick [01:04:13] So then you're behind, you know, And now, now I can, you know, you sit here. 

Nick [01:04:17] Staring at this giant. 

Nick [01:04:18] 64 ounce. 

Nick [01:04:19] Yeti growler that I have. 

Nick [01:04:21] So now my. 

Nick [01:04:22] My water. 

Nick [01:04:22] Goal. 

Nick [01:04:23] Daily is minimum 64 ounces, which is what this. 

Nick [01:04:26] Is. So I so I drink half gallon of. 

Nick [01:04:28] Water a day. 

Nick [01:04:29] Well, my biggest I was drinking a. 

Nick [01:04:31] Gallon of water a day because I was eating so much salty food that I just was thirsty all the time. 

Nick [01:04:36] But I get through this thing fairly easily and I can drink. 

Nick [01:04:39] More regularly now. 

Nick [01:04:40] But there was a time where I was like. 

Nick [01:04:42] Frustrated because I was like, I am so thirsty. All I want to do is take a drink of water and I just. 

Nick [01:04:49] It just will not go. 

Nick [01:04:50] Down, you know? So I would either, you know, throw up or I would get the hiccups really bad. 

Nick [01:04:54] And yeah, so mentally and. 

Nick [01:04:56] Physically, it's just a really difficult thing to go through. 

Nick [01:05:00] And not only that, and this is kind of the the. 

Nick [01:05:04] Comedy value of the situation is. 

Nick [01:05:06] Your body geometry. 

Nick [01:05:07] Changes every day when you lose that weight that fast. I have been so clumsy for the last year. 

Nick [01:05:14] Because every every time I mean, every day you wake up and it's like. 

Nick [01:05:20] You know, for. 

Nick [01:05:20] There, you know, there was there was a. 

Nick [01:05:22] Time where I was losing four or £5 in a. 

Nick [01:05:23] Day and it's like, Man, your body geometry changes. So how you moved yesterday is not how you move today. And I tripped and fall. And so many times in this last year, you know, and that's, you know, that's kind of a goofy thing, but that's real. Like you just it's like it's like I'm you know, it's like it's like learning to drive all over. You know? It's like it's like if you drove a different car every day and every day, you had to. 

Nick [01:05:47] Like, adjust. 

Nick [01:05:48] The seat, adjust the steering wheel, figure out where the pedals are. It's just there's days where I. 

Nick [01:05:52] Just walk around. I'm like. 

Nick [01:05:53] Uncomfortable because I'm like, I feel like I'm about to. 

Nick [01:05:55] Fall over. 

Nick [01:05:56] Because I don't know where my feet are. You know, I feel underneath. 

Nick [01:06:00] So. 

Chris [01:06:00] So what's the process like? Whenever I think of I really don't know that much about weight loss surgery. Whenever you go into the operating room, is the surgeon saying we're going to remove X amounts of matter in the body, and then after that, you're going to be doing a rehab with like a diet and exercise program. Like is it a whole bunch of weight at once? And then the goal is to essentially. Sustain where you're at there? Or is it like a procedure's done and then it's little by little weight, but little by little weight? 

Nick [01:06:40] Yeah. Yeah. So that's yeah. So that's that's a good question. That's actually one that. 

Nick [01:06:44] You get fairly. 

Nick [01:06:45] Commonly because I think people you think. 

Nick [01:06:47] Weight loss surgery and people think of the common nineties fad of like liposuction where they're actually like removing fat or removing mass from the body. 

Nick [01:06:57] So. So that's actually not. 

Nick [01:06:59] What it is. 

Nick [01:06:59] So the weight loss. 

Nick [01:07:01] Surgery, whether it's the lap band or the vertical sleeve gastrectomy or what I had the the the gastric bypass. 

Nick [01:07:10] Is actually what they do is. 

Nick [01:07:12] They reform your stomach to limit the amount of food you can intake. 

Nick [01:07:17] So basically so with the gastric. 

Nick [01:07:18] Bypass, what they did was you know. 

Nick [01:07:20] Yourself I guess goes down and and without. 

Nick [01:07:23] Without people being able to see my hands and what I'm doing here, it's it's kind of hard. So you just you just kept it. Bear with me as I try to explain. 

Chris [01:07:29] Soon we'll have camera. 

Nick [01:07:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nick [01:07:31] So so basically, you know, your esophagus comes down, your stomach is. 

Nick [01:07:36] Shaped kind of like a a. 

Nick [01:07:38] Fat banana. 

Nick [01:07:38] Or like a football. 

Nick [01:07:40] And then it goes down. 

Nick [01:07:41] Into your intestines with a gastric bypass. 

Nick [01:07:44] They cut your stomach basically out of that loop. They leave a. 

Nick [01:07:50] Pouch that's about the size of an egg. So it's about three ounces when you wake up. 

Nick [01:07:56] And they they cut off about three feet. 

Nick [01:07:58] Of your small intestine. 

Nick [01:08:00] So the part of your. 

Nick [01:08:02] Small intestine that actually absorbs nutrients is directly connected to your stomach. 

Nick [01:08:08] Wow. To your new stomach. So So food doesn't actually sit in your stomach. 

Nick [01:08:13] And, like, break. 

Nick [01:08:14] Down any more. So it goes directly into your small intestine. And then about six inches. 

Nick [01:08:19] Past where your esophagus and your intestine connects. 

Nick [01:08:25] They reroute your. 

Nick [01:08:26] Old stomach. 

Nick [01:08:28] Because my old stomach still in there. I just. Nothing. 

Nick [01:08:30] No food goes in there. 

Nick [01:08:31] It's still in there. They just stitch it up and they attach that about six inches past. 

Nick [01:08:38] Where your esophagus and your intestines are now connected. 

Nick [01:08:42] And and all that it does is it provides acid. 

Nick [01:08:45] To break down food. Mhm. 

Nick [01:08:47] So basically like I eat. I eat something and it almost immediately goes into my intestine. My intestine. 

Nick [01:08:56] Absorbs what nutrients it. 

Nick [01:08:57] Needs to, and then it. 

Nick [01:08:58] Gets broken down by stomach acid. And then it. And then it. Girls in the journey. The rest of the journey, you know, to where it comes out the other end, if you will. 

Chris [01:09:09] Digestion. 

Nick [01:09:10] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So they don't actually remove any fat. They don't actually move anything. 

Nick [01:09:16] On my. 

Nick [01:09:16] Body. They just, they just make it. More difficult for me to eat. 

Nick [01:09:22] Large, large quantities. 

Nick [01:09:25] But then they make it so that I can get more. 

Nick [01:09:27] Nutrients quicker out of the small quantities that I do eat. 

Chris [01:09:31] Okay, so that makes sense now. Yeah. Whenever you tell me there'd be days where you lose four or £5. 

Nick [01:09:37] Sure. Yeah. 

Nick [01:09:38] Yeah. Yeah. So? So when I woke up. 

Nick [01:09:39] From surgery, I was exactly the same weight as when they put me under. 

Nick [01:09:43] And also, because of that, you can't just. 

Nick [01:09:45] Wake up and eat anything. You know, I think, you know, it's people. It's like, Oh, man, I'm going to have the surgery and I'm going to eat ice cream and pizza and all that. 

Nick [01:09:52] Pizza is a no go. I love pizza. I would eat pie. There was a time when I worry pizza every day. I can't eat. 

Nick [01:09:58] There's too much bread. 

Nick [01:09:59] It's just it's just empty carbs. So like when my family, when we have a pizza and. 

Nick [01:10:03] I scrape off the cheese and the meat, which I can't have, and I just eat cheese and meat, but eating but enjoying like a good crust on a pizza doesn't happen anymore. 

Chris [01:10:13] Do you miss the pizza? 

Nick [01:10:15] No, because all the. 

Nick [01:10:16] Flavor is in the toppings. 

Nick [01:10:19] I mean it. I can still have cheese. 

Nick [01:10:20] I just, you know, I mean, it's a lot of fat, but there's also some some protein nutrient in cheese. 

Nick [01:10:26] But yeah, so. So basically they basically just reset. 

Nick [01:10:30] My body to like, okay, food is now only fuel for you. 

Nick [01:10:36] Like you're not going to eat for enjoyment. And that's not to say that I don't. 

Nick [01:10:39] Enjoy the things that I eat because. 

Nick [01:10:42] I eat beef jerky. 

Nick [01:10:43] For lunch like four times a week. And that's like a dream of mine come true. 

Nick [01:10:48] Like before surgery, if I have been like, now I just eat beef jerky. 

Nick [01:10:50] For lunch every day. People are like. 

Nick [01:10:52] Man, that's unhealthy. But now I'm like, I eat. 

Nick [01:10:54] Beef jerky for lunch. My doctor's like, Good. Yeah, that's perfect. 

Nick [01:10:57] So, you know, so. So there are some good implications. 

Nick [01:11:00] With with the diet portion of it. 

Chris [01:11:02] What's the reasoning with beef jerky? 

Nick [01:11:05] It's high in protein and no carbs. 

Chris [01:11:08] Okay? 

Nick [01:11:08] It's just pure protein. So. 

Nick [01:11:09] So basically, my focus my focus with with macros, if you will, is protein. 

Nick [01:11:15] First. 

Nick [01:11:16] So like I can make a plate that's got some like complex carbs. 

Nick [01:11:20] So like a. 

Nick [01:11:22] Let's say like. 

Nick [01:11:23] A 3 to 5 ounce piece of chicken. 

Nick [01:11:27] So like, let's say like a chicken thigh. 

Nick [01:11:29] And some sweet potato kind of sweet potato. 

Nick [01:11:34] So I can have that. But I've got to eat the chicken. 

Nick [01:11:37] First. 

Nick [01:11:39] Because protein is the most. 

Nick [01:11:40] Important thing to sustain me. Hmm. 

Nick [01:11:42] So now. 

Nick [01:11:43] If I eat a late lunch or something, I'm just. 

Nick [01:11:45] Not feeling it. And the chicken. 

Nick [01:11:47] Fills me up. I don't get it. Enjoy the sweet potato. You know, I don't get it. Enjoy that. The carb or the, you know, the complex carb part. So. 

Nick [01:11:56] So it just I mean, it just changes everything. I can't just sit down at a. 

Nick [01:11:59] Plate and eat what I want. I've got to eat everything and starting with protein. So. 

Nick [01:12:03] So that's the that's the idea. 

Nick [01:12:04] Buying the beef jerky is that it's just it's pure protein. It's got some healthy fats in it. Um, and then there's no, there's not any carbs in it. 

Chris [01:12:13] Yeah. What would you advise someone if they are considering doing the surgery that you took. 

Nick [01:12:20] Be sure that you're mentally ready to change your life. That much like. 

Nick [01:12:26] The biggest in and I've I've struggled with. 

Nick [01:12:31] In my past with addiction of other things. And so, I mean, this would ring true for anybody. But like. 

Nick [01:12:37] Be sure that you. 

Nick [01:12:38] Have a plan in place. 

Nick [01:12:40] And that the the people. 

Nick [01:12:41] That are going to be around you after surgery know that like. 

Nick [01:12:45] I'm. 

Nick [01:12:46] I'm dealing with having giving it given up an addiction. I'm not always going to respond to everything in healthy ways. 

Nick [01:12:56] I think in any. 

Nick [01:12:58] Situation where you're able to say that is good. 

Chris [01:13:00] But that's good. 

Nick [01:13:01] Self-awareness. Yeah, Yeah. But, you know, I can I can guarantee anybody that has. 

Nick [01:13:05] A surgery that you're going to struggle with. 

Nick [01:13:08] Not handling. 

Nick [01:13:09] Emotions very well no matter who you are. 

Nick [01:13:14] And that's. 

Nick [01:13:14] That's been like invaluable for me to. 

Nick [01:13:17] Recognize that. 

Nick [01:13:18] And to explain that to my family. 

Nick [01:13:22] You know, like, and it manifests itself in different ways, you know, And the place. 

Nick [01:13:26] That I went to have it on staff on staff psych. 

Nick [01:13:28] One of the things that he said when I was. 

Nick [01:13:32] Like a week out or something or two weeks out and I saw him. 

Nick [01:13:36] And he said, You're going to have some. 

Nick [01:13:37] Weird urges or some weird, um, I forget the word I'm thinking of, but. 

Nick [01:13:43] You're just you're just going to have. 

Chris [01:13:44] Some cravings. 

Nick [01:13:45] Some not necessarily cravings, but just like. 

Nick [01:13:48] Some weird emotional responses. 

Chris [01:13:50] Okay. 

Nick [01:13:50] And he said, if they're not harmful. 

Nick [01:13:53] Embrace them. 

Nick [01:13:54] So, like a month out from surgery, so. So for like 12 years, I've always either had. 

Nick [01:14:00] Scruff on my face or a long. 

Nick [01:14:01] Beard, and I've only ever. 

Nick [01:14:03] Cut my beard with a guard on, you know, to leave it to leave it. And that's about as short as I ever went, was like a two guard. 

Nick [01:14:10] So for the first time in 12. 

Nick [01:14:11] Years, I was I was looking in front of the mirror and I had grown a decent beard before surgery. And I was looking at the mirror and I was like. 

Nick [01:14:18] Yeah, I'm kind of getting the. 

Nick [01:14:20] Urge to. 

Nick [01:14:21] To shave my beard with like with a razor, like, legitimate, like down to the skin, a. 

Chris [01:14:25] Clean shaven. 

Nick [01:14:25] Like, clean shaven. And I, and I did and I looked terrible. And my five year old. 

Nick [01:14:32] Daughter, who has never seen me without facial hair. 

Nick [01:14:35] She was. 

Nick [01:14:35] Asleep. And the next morning I went in to wake her up. 

Nick [01:14:38] And she woke up and she looked up at me and and freaked out. 

Nick [01:14:43] And like I put her, I was like, you know, it's okay. 

Nick [01:14:45] It's still me. And I put her in the bath. 

Nick [01:14:48] And I was. 

Nick [01:14:48] Trying to. 

Nick [01:14:49] Have a conversation with her. 

Nick [01:14:50] She would not look me in the eye. She would not look at my face. But she would but but hearing my voice. 

Nick [01:14:57] She heard that it was the same me. 

Nick [01:14:59] And now periodically. 

Nick [01:15:02] Just randomly, when I'm talking to her, she'll go, Please don't ever shave your beard again because you just freaked out that much. Yeah. 

Chris [01:15:09] And so I wonder what it is that why the psych knew that you were going to have weird inclinations after surgery? 

Nick [01:15:18] Well, I just think that's. 

Nick [01:15:19] I just think that's something that happens to. 

Nick [01:15:23] Like, when you get rid. 

Nick [01:15:24] Of an addiction, your brain is going to look for other. 

Nick [01:15:26] Coping. 

Nick [01:15:27] Mechanisms. And and so there's. 

Nick [01:15:29] Just going to be. 

Nick [01:15:30] Small, weird urges that you're that your brain is going to. 

Nick [01:15:34] Try to use to cope. 

Chris [01:15:35] Yeah. 

Nick [01:15:36] With things. 

Chris [01:15:37] Yeah. 

Nick [01:15:37] You know. 

Nick [01:15:38] And, and yeah and so and I mean I. 

Nick [01:15:41] Absolutely I absolutely just I did just have some weird stuff that I was like, man, I just want to as well shave my beard off. I just, you know. 

Nick [01:15:50] It's been, it's been a while. I just want to see what my face looks like. And. 

Nick [01:15:53] You know, unfortunately for me, I was like, No, I don't necessarily want to see this anymore. 

Chris [01:15:59] Because you have a beard now. 

Nick [01:16:00] Do you have a beer now? Yeah, This is and you know, this is. 

Nick [01:16:03] I trimmed it back two or three weeks ago, and this is about as short as I've had it in a while. But I lost so much. 

Nick [01:16:09] Weight that I have a jawline. 

Nick [01:16:10] Now. 

Nick [01:16:11] So I'm like, I'm going to I'm going to flaunt it. 

Chris [01:16:12] Like you got to show that jawline. 

Nick [01:16:14] Yeah. 

Nick [01:16:14] You're welcome. You're welcome. Public. 

Nick [01:16:16] Yeah. Now I'm sharing my jawline with the world, you know, and. 

Nick [01:16:19] Yeah, so yeah, the whole thing has just been about. 

Nick [01:16:24] As bizarre and rewarding of an experience as I've ever had in my life. 

Chris [01:16:30] So now are you in a position to where you want to lose even more weight or are you in a position to where like, what's the psychology a year after the surgery? 

Nick [01:16:43] Yeah. So, so now I'm I'm I'm at a place. 

Nick [01:16:47] Where. 

Nick [01:16:48] I'm kind of maintaining I'm at about £250, which is still obese. 

Nick [01:16:55] For my. 

Nick [01:16:55] I'm five. 

Nick [01:16:58] Well, I say 511, I'm like 510, but I give myself the extra inch. 

Chris [01:17:02] But me too. 

Nick [01:17:04] Yeah, I'm not particularly tall. And so £250 are still big. 

Nick [01:17:08] On my. 

Nick [01:17:08] Frame. I do have some muscle because I'm in. 

Nick [01:17:12] You know, the can. 

Chris [01:17:13] You know, a muscle. Come on now. 

Nick [01:17:15] So, you know, I. But I, you know, I use my hand. I carry heavy stuff. I, you know, with stuff around. So, you know, I'm but I but I'm still I'm still and it's never really been about I mean, some of it's been about how I looked, you know, obviously, like I said, when you're that big. 

Nick [01:17:30] You're not happy with how you look. 

Nick [01:17:31] But I'm happy with how I look now. 

Chris [01:17:33] Yeah. 

Nick [01:17:34] So but I'm kind of maintaining I'd like to lose. 50 more pounds or so. I don't know. 

Nick [01:17:40] With my frame if that's plausible. 

Chris [01:17:43] Right. 

Nick [01:17:45] But I'm at the point now where exercise where now it's. 

Nick [01:17:49] Exercise is going to be the next step. 

Nick [01:17:52] I've held off putting you with a jog around my neighborhood a few. 

Nick [01:17:55] Times, which I can do now, which is nice without pain. 

Nick [01:18:00] We do. 

Nick [01:18:00] We have a gym membership. I do go to the gym occasionally, You know, once every couple of weeks will go, we'll go down there. 

Nick [01:18:06] So nothing really committal, but I'm at the point. 

Nick [01:18:10] Now where that's that's the. 

Nick [01:18:12] Exercise is going to be the move because I've kind of. 

Nick [01:18:15] Lost what I can, especially with now reintroducing carbs where I wasn't having any before. 

Nick [01:18:20] You know, I'd like to put on somewhere like I've just never seen myself. As thin as I am now. And so now it's kind of like it's like when you have when you get your savings account. 

Nick [01:18:31] To a certain space. 

Nick [01:18:32] And you're like, oh, this is my goal. You know, my goal is to have. 

Nick [01:18:34] Ten grand, ten grand in. 

Nick [01:18:36] Savings. And then you get that and you're like. 

Nick [01:18:37] Man, I wonder if I can get to 15 grand, 20 or 50 or. 

Chris [01:18:41] Whatever it would six digits. 

Nick [01:18:42] What would six digits in savings look like? You know, and I you know, and so and so I'm kind of at that point, I'm like, man, you know, I'm happy with. 

Nick [01:18:51] What I look like. Now. I've got a positive self-image. 

Nick [01:18:54] I'm just more positive because I don't hurt all the time. And. So like. 

Nick [01:19:01] Now, what would you know, What would 240 look like? What would 220 look like? What would 200 look like? 

Nick [01:19:08] And according to the. 

Nick [01:19:11] Military body scale, £190 is like 5% body fat for me. 

Nick [01:19:18] Wow. So, like I said, I don't know that I'm I don't know that I am willing. 

Nick [01:19:23] To work hard enough. 

Nick [01:19:24] To get to that point because I'm because I am happy. But now, you know, I'm just you know, I mean, we're as human beings. 

Nick [01:19:32] And as as as men especially, you know, the the. 

Nick [01:19:37] The masculine. 

Nick [01:19:39] Sensibility is like, how far can I take this thing? 

Nick [01:19:42] You know, so now I'm. 

Nick [01:19:43] Like, you know, how how far can I take this? You know what? You know? 

Nick [01:19:46] And so I've got I've got some guys that. 

Nick [01:19:49] Are encouraging me that are guys that run. I've never been a runner. I get bored. I'm like, okay, I've ran 200 feet. What do I do? 

Nick [01:19:58] Like, what do I do now? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what's. 

Nick [01:20:01] Next? And, you know, I'm like, Nobody's going to chase me that far, you know? Like, somebody is going to give up by now. Why do I have to run faster than this? 

Nick [01:20:08] So, you know, I've never been a runner, but I've got some buddies. 

Nick [01:20:11] That are they do like 200 mile races and that. 

Chris [01:20:14] Oh, boy. 

Nick [01:20:15] And so I'm going to do a5k this year. And I'm like, I realize that this is like. 

Nick [01:20:20] You guys is like. 

Nick [01:20:21] After a workout is a5k, but it's a big deal to me. 

Chris [01:20:25] No kidding. To go from over £400 to running 3.2 miles in a span of 18 months. 

Nick [01:20:33] Yeah. And I ran. 

Nick [01:20:35] A5k when I was younger, but I was like to 95. So I'd gone from like three to about 30, 43, 50 down to down 2 to 95 at that point in my life. And I ran a5k then and it was, it took me 56 minutes. It took me just. 

Nick [01:20:51] So, I mean, you know, I wasn't really happy with the time, but I did it and I didn't stop. You know, and now even like. 

Nick [01:20:59] You know, £45 less than that. I'm like. 

Nick [01:21:01] Well, I wonder and I only trained for like. 

Nick [01:21:03] Three or four months, you know? 

Nick [01:21:05] And so now I'm like, well, if I train for it from now until the fall, you know, I'd had some good training in. Not only would I be. 

Nick [01:21:14] Lighter, but, you know, what could my. 

Nick [01:21:15] You know, so now, now I'm because of having. 

Nick [01:21:19] The surgery. 

Nick [01:21:20] Now I'm thinking not only like, hey, I'm just going to do it. And just finish. But now I'm thinking about like, what's it going to take to be competitive and not necessarily win, but what's it going to take to be competitive, you know? Top five, what's top five look like? You know, And then, you know, like I said, who knows? 

Nick [01:21:39] You know, it's like. 

Nick [01:21:40] That ten grand and savings. 

Nick [01:21:41] You know, like once I get to top five. 

Nick [01:21:44] Knowing me, I'm. 

Nick [01:21:45] Now I'm going to want top three. 

Chris [01:21:46] Oh, you're going to be dangerous. Yeah. 

Nick [01:21:48] Yeah. Well, I mean, not. 

Nick [01:21:50] You know, not dangerous because I'm still I'm still. 

Nick [01:21:54] You know, the body geometry, still, you know, I still am a little bit clumsy, but, you know, but it's just it's I just I find myself looking. 

Nick [01:22:02] Forward and saying like, man. 

Nick [01:22:03] There's there's so many things that I. That I can do now. Or that that I could do that were just. 

Nick [01:22:12] Wasn't an option before. 

Nick [01:22:14] You know and it's and and for anybody out. 

Nick [01:22:17] There that's probably thinking this I'll address this. 

Nick [01:22:19] Like yes at. 

Nick [01:22:20] 400 and. 

Nick [01:22:21] You know almost for you know mid four hundreds. Yes I could have dieted. 

Nick [01:22:28] Hard and exercised and. 

Nick [01:22:30] You know, done all the things necessary. 

Nick [01:22:32] To lose weight. 

Nick [01:22:34] But there's just there's just a mental. 

Nick [01:22:37] Block that you get when. 

Nick [01:22:38] You're that old and there's a physical while. 

Nick [01:22:40] You're not all that way, rather. 

Nick [01:22:42] And there's a physical block. You're in pain. You're in pain all the time. I mean, everything hurts. 

Nick [01:22:47] All the time. 

Nick [01:22:48] You don't sleep well, so you don't ever have any energy. The things that you eat give you energy for, you know, 5 minutes and then it's spent. So there's there's there's, you know, and then there's the psychology of I don't want to be at a gym. 

Nick [01:23:03] In front of people, you know. 

Nick [01:23:04] And there's there's just a lot that. 

Nick [01:23:07] Goes into. 

Nick [01:23:08] Making the. 

Nick [01:23:09] Decision to do it naturally versus doing it surgically. 

Nick [01:23:12] And there's people that that. 

Nick [01:23:15] That do it naturally that have a lot of. 

Nick [01:23:16] Success. Ethan Suddenly he's an actor. A lot of people know him. 

Nick [01:23:21] As. 

Nick [01:23:22] Louie Plastic on. 

Nick [01:23:23] Remember the Titans. 

Nick [01:23:24] So the big fat. 

Nick [01:23:25] White guy in Remember the Titans. 

Nick [01:23:27] Is now. 

Nick [01:23:28] A. 

Nick [01:23:29] Bodybuilder. 

Nick [01:23:30] Basically. I mean, he's just ginormous. 

Chris [01:23:33] Wow. 

Nick [01:23:34] Muscular and just looks incredible. And I follow him on Instagram. 

Nick [01:23:38] And he did it naturally. 

Nick [01:23:40] And, you know, no, no surgery. 

Chris [01:23:43] And I'm sure he had a team working with him. 

Nick [01:23:47] Team, right. You know, because. Yeah, because he's. 

Nick [01:23:48] An actor, but. 

Nick [01:23:50] But, you know, you know, and not all of us have that. And and so, you know, there are people out there, no matter what you. 

Nick [01:23:57] Do, there's going to be somebody. 

Nick [01:23:59] That's going to dislike. 

Nick [01:24:01] Your process. And that's just natural. 

Nick [01:24:03] And anyone dislikes my. 

Nick [01:24:05] Process can kiss me somewhere where you can probably imagine what I'm talking about. 

Nick [01:24:10] Because I really because I really don't. 

Nick [01:24:12] Care what they what they. 

Nick [01:24:13] Say. This was the process. 

Nick [01:24:14] That was right for me. Yeah. 

Nick [01:24:15] And, you know, and, and it may not be. The process is right for everybody. Some people can do it. I couldn't you know, I'll admit, I just I wasn't strong. 

Nick [01:24:25] Enough to do it naturally. I wasn't good enough. I wasn't I didn't have the stick to itiveness. You know, there's. 

Nick [01:24:30] Just that just process. That process didn't appeal to me. 

Chris [01:24:33] Like you said, there's so many variables. And to look at all of these variables and to have one answer, it's really hard. The psychological aspect of it, what your daily life looks like, the people around you, what there's all of these different things that compound and compound. What was the moment that you were like, okay, this is it. This is the move for me. Was there a certain event that happened or was it just, uh. 

Nick [01:25:05] You know, yeah, I think not one event, but just when I was in my. 

Nick [01:25:11] Mid-twenties and I was in better shape and. But still obese. And just going through like the mid-twenties dating life. 

Nick [01:25:25] Just that insecurity. 

Nick [01:25:26] Of, you know, am I attractive or am I, you know, like, you know, when somebody is like, you know, oh, oh, you know, yeah, you're a big guy, but you wear it well. It's like, well, that's not really a compliment. You're just saying like, Hey, I don't mind that you're fat. 

Nick [01:25:38] You know, like, I don't I don't completely hate looking at you. That's basically what. 

Nick [01:25:43] People are saying. And. 

Nick [01:25:44] And, you know, self-awareness be damned. That's what I hear. 

Nick [01:25:47] When people say that, that kind of thing. 

Nick [01:25:49] And and so just kind of navigating that. I mean, I've. 

Nick [01:25:53] Wanted this surgery for a long for a long time. Um. 

Nick [01:25:58] But, you know, I think I think for me it was. 

Nick [01:26:01] It was. 

Nick [01:26:03] When I was in a in that sales. 

Nick [01:26:05] Job where I was sitting in a chair for two years and I had some issues with my heart just beating irregularly. And I went to the doctor and, you know, the doctor was like, Well, we'll give you some medication, but. You know. 

Nick [01:26:19] It's it's not going to do much. 

Nick [01:26:21] For you if you aren't more active, if you don't lose some weight and. 

Nick [01:26:25] Everything like that. So. So it stemmed down to like what I you really got. 

Nick [01:26:28] Serious about it. It stemmed down to a health decision but I've. 

Nick [01:26:31] But I've wanted to have. 

Nick [01:26:32] This surgery since my mid-twenties was when I really started seriously considering it. 

Chris [01:26:38] And that means that you were considering it for how long? 

Nick [01:26:43] About ten. 

Nick [01:26:44] Years. So I'm 36 now. Yeah. 

Nick [01:26:46] And so to ten. Yeah, 10 to. 

Nick [01:26:48] 12 years was. 

Nick [01:26:50] You know, and you know, of. 

Nick [01:26:51] Course when I was younger and, you know, in my twenties, I, you know, I had jobs that didn't have good benefits, so I didn't have health insurance to do it or anything like that. And, you know, health insurance has just been. 

Nick [01:27:02] A relatively new concept. 

Nick [01:27:04] You know, since I've been married and had kids. And, you know, so, you know, when you when you get married and have kids, you want to be responsible and do grownup things like like health insurance and dental, you know, dental insurance and vision and all that. So. 

Nick [01:27:17] You know, all the other grown up stuff. But, you know, yeah, now I get excited. I'm like, man co-pay paid this much like, that's. 

Nick [01:27:23] Incredible, you know? 

Nick [01:27:24] And, you know, it's like. 

Nick [01:27:25] Before I was, you know. 

Nick [01:27:26] Excited about like, oh, man, they got, you know, 24 pack a bushel is $2 off book. So, you know, things you get excited about. 

Nick [01:27:35] In your you know, when you get married and it. 

Chris [01:27:36] Changes. 

Nick [01:27:37] You get into your thirties. Yeah. 

Nick [01:27:38] But um yeah it, it just, it just wasn't. 

Nick [01:27:41] Financially feasible for me and in my, you know, my twenties or I'd have done it then. 

Nick [01:27:45] But, you know, I just, I think that things in your life. 

Nick [01:27:49] Happen when they're supposed to. I know that sounds. Like like a hippie sensibility. 

Nick [01:27:54] But it had I got on the surgery in my twenties. I don't know. And I'm not saying. 

Nick [01:28:00] I'm not saying she's going to listen to this. 

Nick [01:28:02] I'm not saying that like my wife settled. 

Nick [01:28:05] Or that I settled in any way because. My wife is the one for me and I. I knew I was going to marry her when I was 17 years old. 

Chris [01:28:13] Really? 

Nick [01:28:14] My story. I knew she didn't. Yeah. 

Nick [01:28:16] Yeah, that is. Is that as a story? I can. I can tell that one at some point. 

Nick [01:28:19] But I think had I had, I had the surgery in. 

Nick [01:28:22] In my, in my twenties my dating life would have looked different and I probably would have ended up in some. 

Nick [01:28:29] Unhealthy situations. 

Nick [01:28:31] That weren't. 

Nick [01:28:32] Mentally fulfilling. 

Nick [01:28:33] But may have been, you know, physically fulfilling. 

Nick [01:28:35] You know, I do believe that, you know, being obese. Kept me from some of that. Not all of that, you know, because I've been in some unhealthy. 

Nick [01:28:46] You know, situations. Not necessarily long enough to call relationships. 

Nick [01:28:49] But some unhealthy situations. You know, but but those situations taught me, you know, it's like that sales pitch. You know, it's was like dating, you know, And I've got a whole thing. 

Nick [01:29:00] I can say on dating. But, you know. 

Nick [01:29:02] Dating was like was like that sales pitch. Like, the more I did it, the more I was like, okay, this this thing is it for me? Like this one thing? Is it for. 

Nick [01:29:09] Me? 

Nick [01:29:10] So I take it out in. 

Nick [01:29:11] Favor of something else and it's like. 

Nick [01:29:13] I dated a lot. And I would. 

Nick [01:29:15] Encourage anybody that's young and. 

Nick [01:29:17] Single, not necessarily the physical part. 

Nick [01:29:20] Because that can be really emotionally. 

Nick [01:29:21] Damaging. But date. 

Nick [01:29:25] Often. 

Nick [01:29:26] Date a lot because it's going to be like that. 

Nick [01:29:30] Where you're like, okay, this works for me, but this doesn't. 

Nick [01:29:35] And then you'll hone it down. 

Nick [01:29:36] And eventually you'll have a list of like. 

Nick [01:29:38] Like this is what I want. And so, like, it's like being able to like, date and not necessarily. 

Nick [01:29:47] Always have the the physical part. 

Nick [01:29:50] Looming immediately. Right. You know, like, not immediately. Having that physical connection allowed me to really dial in that list and really realize that. 

Nick [01:30:01] Like, my wife was that person and. 

Nick [01:30:03] Is and is is still. 

Nick [01:30:05] You know, every day is that is that person. 

Nick [01:30:07] You know, it's like it's like it's like superpowers. 

Nick [01:30:10] You know, if. 

Nick [01:30:10] I would have got them in before I would have got this these, these. 

Nick [01:30:13] Powers early in my twenties, I would have abused them for. 

Chris [01:30:15] Sure. Yeah, they say that. They say like with money, like you don't get money until you're old and you can't use it. Yeah. Versus whenever you're young and you could travel around and do everything. What's your favorite thing about your wife? 

Nick [01:30:30] Gosh, man, everything. Because I know she's going to hear this. I'm going to say everything. 

Nick [01:30:35] But, man, it's just it's. 

Nick [01:30:37] Just her. 

Nick [01:30:38] Heart. I mean, my wife is just. You meet a lot of. 

Nick [01:30:42] People that are kind and patient and willing to. 

Nick [01:30:48] Accept. 

Nick [01:30:49] People at their worst. 

Nick [01:30:52] And it's and it's and it's something they do. With my wife. 

Nick [01:30:59] Those things are at the core of who she is. So like. 

Nick [01:31:03] Being kind isn't something that she practices. Being kind is just something. 

Nick [01:31:08] That like. 

Nick [01:31:09] She opens her eyes every day. And that's just. It's just. How she. 

Nick [01:31:15] Navigates life. 

Nick [01:31:17] Just treating people. 

Nick [01:31:18] Everybody with. 

Nick [01:31:19] Kindness. 

Nick [01:31:20] And grace and respect and love. 

Nick [01:31:22] And it's you know, it's just it's not something that she does because she thinks that's. 

Nick [01:31:28] What the public wants her to be. 

Nick [01:31:30] She's she she's indiscriminately and unapologetically. 

Nick [01:31:36] Patient and loving. And that's just part of who she is. 

Chris [01:31:40] That's awesome. 

Nick [01:31:41] And that's yeah, that's my favorite thing about her is like, it's not fake. 

Nick [01:31:45] It's not a it's not a front. 

Nick [01:31:46] It's not a mask. That's just who. 

Nick [01:31:48] And, you know, I just I'm the kind of guy that needs. 

Nick [01:31:51] A little patience from the person that I live. 

Nick [01:31:53] And I live with every day. You know, she's just genuine. I mean, she's genuine about it. 

Nick [01:31:58] You know, It's not you know, I'm nice to you because people are watching. She's nice to people even when nobody else is watching. 

Chris [01:32:06] Yeah. And you had known her whenever you were a teenager. Yeah. But you weren't dating then. 

Nick [01:32:12] Yeah. So she lived in another state. 

Nick [01:32:15] And I was friends with her cousins that lived in my hometown. And we were hanging out one time. 

Nick [01:32:23] And they said, Are our cousins going to our cousins. 

Nick [01:32:25] In town? And our cousins are going to come meet us. And we went to the playground. We used to play basketball at a playground. We weren't that young. We were I was 17. She was 16. 

Nick [01:32:35] But there's a playground. 

Nick [01:32:36] Across the street from the house. We used to go shoot some hoops and. 

Nick [01:32:39] She was. 

Nick [01:32:40] There and. 

Nick [01:32:42] She was she was on. 

Nick [01:32:43] Crutches. She had had a knee issue. She was on crutches. 

Nick [01:32:47] So she didn't play basketball. So I opted to sit out with her. And I mean, immediate attraction. 

Nick [01:32:53] You know, my wife's a good look and a good looking lady and immediate attraction. 

Nick [01:32:57] But then we sat there and talked while everybody else was playing basketball. And there was just I mean, there was just that genuine, you. 

Nick [01:33:06] Know, like I said, just that genuine, like that heart. And I just I picked up on it immediately. And when when she went back to wherever her parents were, later on, I told her cousins, like, man, I'm told I'm going to marry I'm going to marry that girl. Wow. You know? 

Nick [01:33:23] And so I got our wedding. I was like, Man, somebody owes me. 

Nick [01:33:25] Some money because I'm pretty sure somebody said, Bet you won't. And like. And I did the collect. 

Nick [01:33:30] Yeah, yeah. And so we just, you know. And then she went back. 

Nick [01:33:33] She went back to where she lived out of state. 

Nick [01:33:36] And we just that was the day of AOL Instant Messenger. 

Nick [01:33:40] You know, So. 

Nick [01:33:41] We kept. 

Nick [01:33:42] Up on AOL Instant Messenger and then like and Zynga, if anybody ever remember Zynga. 

Nick [01:33:46] And then and then Facebook as like Facebook became. 

Nick [01:33:49] More prevalent, we kept up on Facebook and. 

Nick [01:33:53] You know, it may have been six. 

Nick [01:33:55] Months or a year or sometimes. 

Nick [01:33:58] A week in between times that we chatted. But she eventually moved. 

Nick [01:34:02] Here to the town that I that I grew up in. 

Nick [01:34:06] And we didn't reconnect when she moved here. And then she got into. 

Nick [01:34:11] A relationship that was not great and. 

Nick [01:34:16] Had she got pregnant. 

Nick [01:34:17] With her son and then she moved back to out of state. And at the time I was working in that job and she was up all night with a newborn. And so we just we had kind of reconnected recently before that. And so we just talked, you know, I was up all night on the night job, any of anybody else to talk to. And so we texted all the time. 

Nick [01:34:36] And then when her son was kind of old enough that she didn't. 

Nick [01:34:40] Need as much help from like her mom and dad, she moved back here. 

Nick [01:34:44] And a few. 

Nick [01:34:46] Months after she moved back here. 

Nick [01:34:49] We we started hanging out and. I was just I was kind of at a. 

Nick [01:34:54] Place where I was like, ready to be done with dating, but I didn't really know what that looked like for me. And we hung out for like, an entire day. I skipped work and she skipped work. 

Nick [01:35:05] And we hung. 

Nick [01:35:06] Out for an entire day, like almost a full 24 hours. And at the end of it, we were just like, Why did we never think to do this? And we've been together ever since. 

Chris [01:35:20] Wow. 

Nick [01:35:21] So, yeah, March 25th of eight years ago, this March, I don't know what the day of. 

Nick [01:35:28] The. 

Nick [01:35:28] Year was, because I'm. No, I'm not a mathematician, but. But yeah. 

Nick [01:35:31] So, So, yeah, it took us. 

Nick [01:35:34] Like 11 or 12 years to finally. Actually day. And then. 

Nick [01:35:39] You know, because we knew each other so well. I mean, I mean, we we had it intimate friendship. 

Nick [01:35:45] It's like we already knew each other really well. Mhm. 

Chris [01:35:49] So is the dating process really quickly for you guys. 

Nick [01:35:51] Which is. Yeah. 

Nick [01:35:52] We got engaged after seven months. 

Chris [01:35:54] Okay. 

Nick [01:35:54] And then like I said, I got, we got married on our, on our one year anniversary. Um. 

Nick [01:36:00] And, you know, there's said there's a difference between dating and. 

Nick [01:36:07] I courtship, I guess you could say. 

Nick [01:36:08] I mean, it's like. It's like before my. 

Nick [01:36:11] Wife, I was just dating to kind of hone my list. What do I like? What do I not like? 

Nick [01:36:17] And sometimes there was potential and I would date. And let me just let me. 

Nick [01:36:22] Let me back up because it really sounds like I'm I'm a player here. 

Nick [01:36:25] Everybody that I dated. We had the. 

Nick [01:36:29] Conversation upfront of like. 

Nick [01:36:31] Hey, I'm, I'm looking to settle down eventually, but I'm not. But I'm not just going to settle. 

Nick [01:36:38] Down with one person just because we get along for. Five or six or ten dates. 

Nick [01:36:45] And so it was it was it was known right upfront, like I'm dating other people. 

Nick [01:36:51] You know, I'm I'm not committed to you or them. I am you know, I am I'm dating other people. And and this is why that's because, you know, I want to. 

Chris [01:37:01] Find the right fit. Find the. 

Nick [01:37:02] Right fit. 

Nick [01:37:03] So when my wife and I started, I was kind of like I had kind of narrowed down. 

Nick [01:37:10] My list, I guess. 

Nick [01:37:11] And there was actually one one. 

Nick [01:37:14] Girl in particular that I had been kind of dating more than everybody else. 

Nick [01:37:18] And as soon as. 

Nick [01:37:20] My wife and I kind of started. 

Nick [01:37:23] It started seeming like. 

Nick [01:37:25] There was like something. 

Nick [01:37:26] That kindling there. 

Nick [01:37:28] I stopped dating that other girl. 

Chris [01:37:31] You squashed everything. 

Nick [01:37:32] Else? Just everything else. I mean, I just cut everything else off. 

Chris [01:37:35] Focused on. 

Nick [01:37:36] That cold turkey. And I and I, you know, again, communication, like I told my wife, like after we had the conversation of, like, man, why. 

Nick [01:37:43] Did we never, like, think. 

Nick [01:37:44] To date before we started dating, I was like, I. Like, I think, you know, we've known each other. 

Nick [01:37:49] For a lot of. 

Nick [01:37:49] Years, but we've we'd never we'd never even looking back, there was probably like some flirty. 

Nick [01:37:55] Moments because that's who I. 

Chris [01:37:55] Am, sure. 

Nick [01:37:56] But but we'd never really. 

Nick [01:37:58] Talked about. 

Nick [01:37:58] Like, Hey, I like you, I like you. You know, like, I never had that. 

Nick [01:38:02] Conversation with her. 

Nick [01:38:04] So. So it was always just a friendship. So, like, here we are on. 

Nick [01:38:08] Like, our third. 

Nick [01:38:09] Date. We've known each other forever. We're familiar with each other, but we'd never been in dating so early on our third date. And I'm, like, telling my wife, like, hey, like, just so you know, like, I start. I've stopped dating anybody else. 

Nick [01:38:21] Like. 

Nick [01:38:22] Like you're it. I like, I think. I think that you have the potential to be. 

Nick [01:38:27] An important part of my life, an important part of my future. You know, so here we. 

Nick [01:38:31] Are, like. Like sitting, eating, like. 

Nick [01:38:33] Mozzarella sticks at some bar and grill. And I'm, like, pretty much saying. 

Nick [01:38:37] Like, I want to be with you. 

Nick [01:38:38] Forever, Right? You know? 

Nick [01:38:39] And I think I think you could. 

Nick [01:38:41] Be this person. So. 

Nick [01:38:43] So that was so that was a fun conversation. But, you know. You know. 

Chris [01:38:46] But was it reciprocated? 

Nick [01:38:48] Yeah, absolutely. 

Nick [01:38:49] Yeah, absolutely. You know, she. 

Nick [01:38:50] Was like, I. 

Nick [01:38:52] I believe that to be the case for me as well. And so. 

Nick [01:38:58] You know, my wife's one of those like she kind of. 

Nick [01:39:01] Has some insecurities sometimes. 

Nick [01:39:05] Because honest people and people that are. 

Nick [01:39:08] Patient and have grace get taken advantage of, you know? 

Chris [01:39:11] Yeah. 

Nick [01:39:12] And so it was like hard to pry that out of her. Ah, like, kind of like we had to dig deep. 

Chris [01:39:18] To be vulnerable. 

Nick [01:39:19] To be vulnerable. But. 

Nick [01:39:21] But she really was like, yeah, like, I really see this going, going the distance as well. 

Nick [01:39:27] And yeah, so it was, it. 

Nick [01:39:28] Was reciprocated and it was really like, like I'm sure that I held my breath like, while waiting for her to leave talking. I was like, Oh, thank goodness, you know? 

Nick [01:39:37] And then. And then like. Like a week later. 

Nick [01:39:41] You know, I'm pretty sure we said, like, I love you for the first time. And then like. 

Nick [01:39:45] From that moment on, you know, it was just. 

Nick [01:39:47] Like it was just. 

Nick [01:39:48] Like, yeah, like I intended like, I'm going to marry you. So, like, when I proposed to her, it wasn't like a big proposal. 

Nick [01:39:54] It was. 

Nick [01:39:54] More like, like. 

Nick [01:39:55] A just a private kind of small affair, But like. 

Nick [01:40:00] She knew it was. 

Nick [01:40:00] Coming because I was. 

Nick [01:40:01] Like, I'm going to marry. 

Nick [01:40:02] You. 

Chris [01:40:02] So it wasn't a question of if it was when. 

Nick [01:40:05] It was when. Yeah. 

Nick [01:40:06] And it was like, you know, so. 

Nick [01:40:08] So we actually had our wedding. We actually we got legally married. 

Nick [01:40:13] On our one year anniversary in the park. 

Chris [01:40:15] And you said one year anniversary of being engaged? 

Nick [01:40:18] No. Of dating after being together. 

Chris [01:40:21] Okay. 

Nick [01:40:21] Yeah. 

Nick [01:40:22] So we being official. 

Chris [01:40:25] Nice. 

Nick [01:40:26] And so we got. So we got engaged at seven months, and then we. 

Chris [01:40:31] Five months later. Of engagement. You were engaged for five months and then got married. 

Nick [01:40:39] Well, okay, so. So, yeah. So we got we got. 

Nick [01:40:42] Together in March. 

Nick [01:40:43] We got engaged in. 

Nick [01:40:44] October for her. Her birthday is in October. So we got engaged on her birthday. 

Nick [01:40:48] And we were planning our wedding. 

Nick [01:40:50] For a year from when we got engaged. So October of the next year. 

Nick [01:40:56] And then there's something some things happened with some of the people that. 

Nick [01:41:01] Were going to be at our wedding, just some drama. And so we were like. 

Nick [01:41:05] Let's just I don't want. When we get married. I don't want it. 

Nick [01:41:09] To be overshadowed by this drama. 

Nick [01:41:11] So we just got married. 

Nick [01:41:13] In the park. It was just. 

Nick [01:41:15] Her, me, her son. 

Nick [01:41:17] And our pastor, and that. 

Nick [01:41:19] Was it. And that. And so that was actually. 

Nick [01:41:21] On our one year anniversary that we got married. 

Nick [01:41:24] And then we kept our. 

Nick [01:41:25] Wedding day in October. 

Nick [01:41:27] So our family attended our wedding. Wow. We had been. 

Nick [01:41:30] Married for seven months before our wedding. 

Nick [01:41:34] And, and and we told everybody well, we told a select few. 

Nick [01:41:38] People that we were already married, but. 

Nick [01:41:40] We told. 

Nick [01:41:40] Everybody at our wedding like, hey, we've actually been married for. 

Nick [01:41:44] And. I got to say, our wedding was the least. 

Nick [01:41:48] Stressful. 

Nick [01:41:50] Gathering that I have. 

Nick [01:41:52] Ever planned or been a part of. 

Nick [01:41:54] Because we were. 

Nick [01:41:54] Already married. 

Chris [01:41:56] Right. What's at stake? 

Nick [01:41:57] Yeah. So then it was just a gathering of a bunch of people that we love making a day all about us. 

Nick [01:42:01] It was excellent. So, you know, we can. We catered in some food. We had some drinks. 

Nick [01:42:06] You know, we told people like, Hey, if you don't want to come, like, don't be obligated. 

Nick [01:42:09] To come just because we invited. If you don't want to be here, don't come. 

Nick [01:42:13] So everybody that. 

Nick [01:42:14] Was there wanted to be there and had a good time. And it was just it was no stress, just people that we love loving on us, man. It was a great, you know, you know, they're dressed up, so it's good. 

Chris [01:42:24] Yeah. What was that process like of whenever you first began dating her and became serious with her of getting to know her kid and becoming transitioning into that role of being a father. 

Nick [01:42:39] Yes. 

Nick [01:42:39] So. Yeah. So. So his dad was. 

Nick [01:42:43] Not really involved much when I first got involved. So she. 

Nick [01:42:45] Had she had full. 

Nick [01:42:46] Custody. 

Nick [01:42:47] So, I mean, it was basically like and I knew I understood that if I was going to be. 

Nick [01:42:55] Involved in her, that, you know, he was going to be a part of my life. So. 

Nick [01:42:58] So that was definitely a. 

Nick [01:42:59] Consideration, you know. 

Nick [01:43:01] And I guess that was. 

Nick [01:43:02] Like another thing that made it easy to think about, like this is going to be my future is like, if I'm going to cut off all these other people that I'm dating, all these other women that I'm dating and be exclusive to you, like. 

Nick [01:43:12] I'm pretty much committing myself. 

Nick [01:43:16] To you because I don't want to get into a kid's life and then back out of it and, you know. Yeah. 

Nick [01:43:22] And, you know, my parents are still married. 

Nick [01:43:24] My parents are coming up on 40 years. This year in 23, I'll be 40 years being married. Wow. You know, all my dad's brothers have all been married for 40 plus years. So. 

Nick [01:43:36] Like, I have a good. 

Nick [01:43:36] Picture of staying together, you know, And so. 

Nick [01:43:40] You know. Staying together, you know, was was the only option for me. So. So I pretty much am like, you know, if we're going to date for. 

Nick [01:43:48] The intent of getting married, you know, our son is going to be important part of that. 

Nick [01:43:52] And I just I mean, he's he's just he was such an easy kid to love. 

Nick [01:43:58] I mean, he just had a little personality. He just laughed so much. 

Nick [01:44:03] And was just so happy all the time. And from the day that we decided. 

Nick [01:44:09] To be together, we were just together all the time. 

Nick [01:44:12] And she had him full time. So it just was really like after a few months, I just really didn't know any different. 

Nick [01:44:19] Like that was just my life. 

Nick [01:44:21] And I know that's that's not. 

Nick [01:44:23] Like a super deep answer, but it just. 

Nick [01:44:26] I just accepted it and it was just was. 

Nick [01:44:28] It was just my life. 

Nick [01:44:29] And it's actually. 

Nick [01:44:31] Harder for my brain to say my. 

Nick [01:44:32] Stepson than. 

Nick [01:44:33] Just to say my son, you know, And he's almost nine. 

Nick [01:44:37] So, I mean, I've I've been we got together. 

Nick [01:44:40] Shortly after his first birthday, like a month after his first birthday. 

Chris [01:44:43] You've been there practically the whole time. 

Nick [01:44:45] Yeah, well, and her and I were. 

Nick [01:44:47] Friends, and we're hanging out when they move back. And he was five months old. So. 

Nick [01:44:51] I mean, I've literally. 

Nick [01:44:53] Known him his entire life. 

Nick [01:44:55] And so it's a lot easier. 

Nick [01:44:57] For me to consider him as a son. 

Nick [01:44:59] I remember like we had been dating. 

Nick [01:45:02] You know, six months or or. 

Nick [01:45:05] It was right shortly after, I think maybe. 

Nick [01:45:07] Shortly after we got engaged. 

Nick [01:45:08] That he called me dad. 

Nick [01:45:09] For the first time. 

Nick [01:45:10] And unsolicited, like she didn't call me dad to him, but he bet he called me that and it was just like, Well, okay, I guess I'm dad now, you know? And so that was that was just it. Like, he made the decision for us. Like, you know, I'm dad now and, and I don't, I don't treat him like a a step because he. 

Nick [01:45:30] You know, is as much a part of of my family as my biological daughter is. So, I mean, we just our family doesn't know any different. 

Nick [01:45:37] And so it wasn't really a process. 

Nick [01:45:40] It was just sort of something that. 

Chris [01:45:42] It's natural. 

Nick [01:45:43] To happen. Yeah. 

Chris [01:45:45] Well, I'm imagining him calling you down for the first time. That would have been an interesting moment. Like, Whoa. 

Nick [01:45:51] Yeah. 

Nick [01:45:51] And, you know, and maybe, like, in his little baby's subconscious. 

Nick [01:45:55] He knew that he was supposed to have a dad, but didn't really see him very often. 

Chris [01:46:01] Yeah. 

Nick [01:46:02] And so, you know, just like, Hey, this is a man. 

Nick [01:46:05] It's my dad. Yeah. And, you know. 

Nick [01:46:07] So I'm like. 

Nick [01:46:08] Well, it's kind of, like, flattering. 

Nick [01:46:10] It's like, okay, well, you know, that's. 

Nick [01:46:12] You want me to be in that role. 

Nick [01:46:13] That I'm honored to be in that role. And, you know, I've been I've been honored to honored to call him my son, you know, ever since. 

Nick [01:46:19] And he has some some difficult moments. 

Nick [01:46:23] You know, as he's getting older and trying to navigate life. 

Nick [01:46:26] And. 

Nick [01:46:27] You know. 

Nick [01:46:27] His dad married a. 

Nick [01:46:30] Woman that was. 

Nick [01:46:32] In his life about the same length of time that I. 

Nick [01:46:34] Was that was his stepmom. 

Nick [01:46:37] And they've and. 

Nick [01:46:37] They've now gotten divorced. And so. 

Nick [01:46:40] We've been a stable home. 

Nick [01:46:42] For him. And so, you know, not having a stable home. 

Nick [01:46:46] Except for hours and even that it was. 

Nick [01:46:49] You know, with custody, you go back and forth. So. 

Nick [01:46:51] You know, these last two years. 

Nick [01:46:52] He's been at our house our year and a half. He's been at our house regularly full time. 

Nick [01:46:59] And that's that's like the most. 

Nick [01:47:00] Consistency he's gotten in his entire life. 

Nick [01:47:04] And so he still struggles a little bit. 

Nick [01:47:06] With some. 

Nick [01:47:06] Things. But, man, it's just been I mean, it's been an. 

Nick [01:47:11] Honor, you know, getting to be his dad. 

Nick [01:47:13] And I get an opportunity to tell him a lot. 

Nick [01:47:16] You know, like, man, you know, when he says, you know, of course, siblings are you love the other one more. And, you know, he'll always say, man, you. 

Nick [01:47:22] Know, you love. 

Nick [01:47:23] You know, my daughter Charlie. You love Charlie more because, you know, because she's yours, because she she came from you. And and I said, Well. 

Nick [01:47:31] Or maybe I love you more because I picked you. You know, I didn't. Yeah, you just weren't born. And I just was stuck with what I got. Like, I picked you. I chose to be your dad, you know? And so I get. 

Nick [01:47:41] An opportunity to, like, kind of. 

Nick [01:47:43] Troll him with that, with that thought is. 

Nick [01:47:45] That's true. You're more special because I chose you, you know? 

Chris [01:47:48] That's awesome. 

Nick [01:47:49] Yeah, that's a. 

Chris [01:47:49] Lot of fun. What's been your favorite thing about fatherhood? 

Nick [01:47:54] Oof! Man. Just. Kids just learn so much. 

Nick [01:48:01] You don't think about how much you take things like. 

Nick [01:48:06] The word the for. 

Nick [01:48:08] Granted till your five year old goes. 

Nick [01:48:10] Hey, there's the word VA. That's one of our site words. 

Nick [01:48:13] You know what it's like. And just just like speech and like. Figuring out new. 

Nick [01:48:19] Things. And like now, my five year old daughter is like wanting to get in the garage and do like some some car stuff with me and like, just. 

Nick [01:48:26] Watching her, like. Pick something up. 

Nick [01:48:31] That I'm doing are like perceiving what I'm doing. And then like two or three months later should be like, Oh, look, there's a talk rinse. You have one of those. And it's like, I you're right. I do like, that's great. 

Nick [01:48:42] And it's like it just it's just really rewarding watching, you know, as somebody like. 

Nick [01:48:47] Myself who, you know. 

Nick [01:48:48] I'm a. 

Nick [01:48:49] Knowledge seeker, you know, like I'm always just reading something or like, man. 

Nick [01:48:54] I wonder what next? And then I'll just look it up and then I'll like, do these deep dives into this. 

Nick [01:48:59] You know, because I like being the guy that's like. You bet you didn't know this, but, you know, like the interesting information, right? 

Nick [01:49:08] So as somebody who places a lot of value on. 

Nick [01:49:11] Information and and in self-education and stuff like that. 

Nick [01:49:16] It's incredible that this watch, you know, like I said, you just you don't realize how little how much. 

Nick [01:49:21] You've learned in your life. 

Nick [01:49:23] Until you see. 

Nick [01:49:24] People that are learning basic things and are excited about it. 

Nick [01:49:28] And like just that. 

Nick [01:49:29] Excitement, you know. 

Nick [01:49:30] You know, and plus, you know, it's cool to have other people. 

Nick [01:49:35] Around who also think farts are funny, you know, in my house. 

Nick [01:49:38] So, you know. You know. 

Chris [01:49:39] Do you all have fart humor at your. 

Nick [01:49:40] House? I mean, yeah, always. 

Nick [01:49:43] Oh, you do. And, you know, I. 

Nick [01:49:45] I get. 

Nick [01:49:46] It. My wife is going to kill me for probably saying, you know, because cause cause, you know, women don't fart. But, you know, I do this thing where, you know, like, I'll have one that's like, you know, loud and obnoxious, and then, like, she'll have one that's, like, quiet and meek and I'll go. 

Nick [01:50:01] GROSS It's just like, look at her with this, like, disgust. 

Nick [01:50:05] On my face and be like. GROSS That that's disgusting. 

Chris [01:50:07] How could you. 

Nick [01:50:08] Yeah, how how could like, like. 

Nick [01:50:10] I'm sitting five feet away from you. You you just. 

Chris [01:50:12] Have some respect. 

Nick [01:50:13] You disgust me. 

Nick [01:50:14] In every way because of what just came out of your body. 

Nick [01:50:16] Yeah. 

Nick [01:50:16] So yeah. So yeah, we do we have, we have party. We have a lot of fun. You know, my kids, especially. 

Nick [01:50:22] Everything with kids. 

Nick [01:50:23] Is fart poop and. 

Chris [01:50:25] Yeah, just. Yeah, you. You said something at the beginning of our conversation. You said there's nothing that will make you feel more insecure as a man. That whenever your kid says something that cuts to the core. 

Nick [01:50:37] Yeah. Whenever your kid gives you. 

Nick [01:50:38] Feedback about you being a father. Yeah. 

Nick [01:50:41] Yeah. Kids. Kids are good at telling. 

Nick [01:50:43] You the ways that you failed. 

Chris [01:50:45] Wow. Yeah, I've. I've been thinking about that because, you know, I don't have a kid right now, and. I'm trying to imagine that whenever your kid gives you feedback about being a father, because that's such a big identity, right? And you want to be the greatest dad that you can be. Um, so I feel like that'd be tough. 

Nick [01:51:07] Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and to those kids, that's your only identity. 

Nick [01:51:11] Like, you're not. You're not a coworker, you're not a friend. You're not, you're not a a regular at their job. You're. You're their dad. That's So they're basically telling you that you're, you're not measuring up in the only role that you. 

Nick [01:51:28] Play in their. 

Nick [01:51:29] Lives. And. 

Nick [01:51:31] You know, and that's just, you know, kids don't have a filter. 

Nick [01:51:35] And that's one of the most fun things about them. But, you know, it's just. 

Nick [01:51:39] They'll tell you. They'll tell you. 

Nick [01:51:41] When they don't like something, you know, And it's just like, yes, please. 

Nick [01:51:44] Tell me tell me all the other ways I'm letting you down. And the. 

Nick [01:51:47] Literally the only role I play in your life. 

Nick [01:51:50] And Yeah. And yeah, so it it is, you know, and you just have to. 

Nick [01:51:54] You just have to learn to. Take it for what it is, is, is they're telling you how to be a better. 

Nick [01:52:02] Father like they're telling you how to. 

Nick [01:52:04] Improve that role. 

Nick [01:52:06] There. You know, kid, the kids don't know it, but. 

Nick [01:52:08] They're telling you like. 

Nick [01:52:09] This is how you know, this is the only role. 

Nick [01:52:11] You play in my life. And this is how you can do that role in a better way. 

Chris [01:52:16] Yeah. 

Nick [01:52:17] So you got to take. 

Nick [01:52:18] It for what it is. You know. 

Nick [01:52:19] It's it's sometimes it's. 

Nick [01:52:20] Hurtful, but. 

Nick [01:52:21] You know, in the end, in the end, they're. 

Nick [01:52:23] Just telling you what they need. There's communicating their needs. 

Chris [01:52:26] Yeah. You're one of the things that you're really good at is, like you said, gathering that information. And I laugh because you're also really good at playing like this role of, Oh, I just work on houses, you know what I mean? Like, sure, Yeah. What do I know? I've been on this side. You're like, reading all these books and, you know, all this information and you're eloquent about being able to communicate it. What's one book that you'd recommend people to read? 

Nick [01:52:51] The Bible? No. No. Well, that's again, that's kind of that's kind of a tough that's kind of a tough. 

Nick [01:52:58] Question to answer, because I don't read books often. Like, I have a really short attention spans. Are reading like a whole book. Is not always feasible for me. I'm more of like a let's Google it and just the first five. 

Nick [01:53:14] Things that pop up. But but like, I'm going to come in an hour. To doing nothing but getting. 

Nick [01:53:20] This information on this thing, you know, And then. 

Nick [01:53:23] And then. 

Nick [01:53:23] You know, obviously, like with some of the the hobbies and things that I have, it's like just doing it more and more. Yeah. You know, I can tell you almost. 

Nick [01:53:32] Anything. 

Nick [01:53:32] You'll ever need to know about any year of Chevrolet engine GM ever produced. 

Chris [01:53:38] You know, the Chevrolet 2002 blazer. 

Nick [01:53:42] Yeah, there are two ways. Yeah. The 4.3 liter v6. 

Chris [01:53:45] That was my first car. Yeah. 

Nick [01:53:47] Yeah, It's. 

Nick [01:53:48] Basically a small white. 

Nick [01:53:50] V8 with two less less cylinders. And it's. 

Nick [01:53:53] One of one of the. 

Nick [01:53:55] Greatest V6 performance platforms out there. Come on. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. For building. I think a lot of guys do turbo platforms on those now. 

Chris [01:54:04] And I've heard of Turbo Blazer's. My friend was telling me about this blazer that his friend had, and he kept saying, Oh, it would wreck yours in a race. And I was like, Come on. 

Nick [01:54:13] Yeah. So there's a saying that. 

Nick [01:54:15] For that 4.3 liter v6, there's a, there's a saying among some car guys and it's like, it's like. 

Nick [01:54:21] All, all of the, all of the. 

Nick [01:54:23] Reliability of a small block V8 without any of that pesky power. 

Nick [01:54:27] It's like you know it's basically they just. 

Nick [01:54:29] Knock two cylinders off one, you know, one of the most. 

Nick [01:54:32] Iconic and. 

Nick [01:54:32] Long running engines in history. Yeah, they just knocked two cylinders off of it and they stuck it in everything. 

Nick [01:54:38] You know, But then, you know, then you've got like the. 

Nick [01:54:40] 3100 V8, which was used in like the supercharged Bonfils or like the turbocharged. 

Nick [01:54:46] Pure grand. 

Nick [01:54:47] Nationals and stuff like that. But that for that 4.3 liter they put them in. So there was a in the. 

Nick [01:54:53] Early. 

Nick [01:54:53] Nineties 91 through well 91 was the pickups 92 and 93 was the, was the jimmies but they were. 

Nick [01:55:02] On the S ten platform. 

Nick [01:55:03] So Sonoma's. 

Nick [01:55:04] Yeah. 

Nick [01:55:04] GMC Sonoma and they call them the, the cyclone and it was a 4.3 liter v6 with a single turbo and an intercooler all wheel drive and they would do like 13 seconds flat from the factory. And they. 

Nick [01:55:16] Were, they were the fastest. 

Nick [01:55:18] Production truck. 

Nick [01:55:19] In. 

Nick [01:55:20] History until I think the 1999 Ford Lightning came out. So they were the fastest production truck in history for almost ten years. And they had that same engine. And I'm just with it with a fat turbo stuff Sonoma. 

Nick [01:55:34] Yeah, yeah. So it was a it was basically a turbo Sonoma with a. 

Nick [01:55:37] Bodykit They got the cyclone. 

Nick [01:55:39] And then, and then they did a two door. Jimmy So it was on the cyclone. 

Nick [01:55:43] It was only produced in 91. 

Nick [01:55:45] And then they did a two door Jimmy the SUV in 92 and 93. 

Nick [01:55:50] And they called it the typhoon and it was the same deal, same body kit and everything. It was just a SUV instead of a pickup. Mm hmm. 

Nick [01:55:56] So, like I said, I know. Like, I could I could. 

Chris [01:56:01] You could go about I. 

Nick [01:56:02] Could spell. Yeah, but the point the point being is like. I like because I have a short attention span. I like to learn in little chunks. And so it's and so like, I find. 

Nick [01:56:16] Sources everywhere. 

Nick [01:56:18] That, but I'll find. 

Nick [01:56:19] Like five or. 

Nick [01:56:20] Six, you know, obviously, like. 

Nick [01:56:21] We're in a time where like arguing about politics and the political climate is big, like, you know, whose fault is the gas prices or, you know, whatever. 

Nick [01:56:29] And so I like to find. 

Nick [01:56:31] Five or six different sources pro and. 

Nick [01:56:35] And against. 

Chris [01:56:36] On both sides. 

Nick [01:56:36] And and then and then, you know, I know this sounds crazy to some people listening, but then for my own opinion based on all of the fact. 

Chris [01:56:46] I'm gonna have to cut that. 

Nick [01:56:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who yeah. Who uses facts to for their opinion anyways. But, but so, so you know, taking the three. 

Nick [01:56:57] Mile roundabout answer to answer your question. 

Nick [01:57:00] I don't really have any books that I'm reading. I mean, I'm, I'm a Jordan B Peterson fan. I started listening to the audiobook of his new book, and it's it's pretty intense. But really, I would say for anybody that. 

Nick [01:57:15] Wants to seek knowledge in the same way that I do is just. 

Nick [01:57:20] Figure out. 

Nick [01:57:22] What sources that you trust. 

Nick [01:57:25] And then just get. 

Nick [01:57:26] Your information a little bit at a time from those sources. You know, I. 

Nick [01:57:29] Mean, like I know it sounds. 

Nick [01:57:32] Bad to say this, but like. 

Nick [01:57:33] Wikipedia, for all of the flak that they get for being, you know, anyone like is actually really thoroughly curated. 

Nick [01:57:44] So there's a lot of really good information on Wikipedia. 

Nick [01:57:46] But it's not the only source of knowledge, you know, It's like and so a lot of the knowledge and a lot of knowledge. 

Nick [01:57:52] That that I have of just random things is just like. 

Nick [01:57:57] Yeah, I'm going to read this and, you know, I might read five things and they might. 

Nick [01:57:59] Say the same thing. 

Nick [01:58:00] But that one. 

Nick [01:58:01] Last one that I read might give me like another thing that I'm like, Oh, well, that's kind of cool. 

Nick [01:58:06] You know, like that's and that's, that's like maybe the one thing that. 

Nick [01:58:10] Is going to stick. 

Chris [01:58:11] Has always been the case for you. 

Nick [01:58:13] Man. When I was a kid, I used to take apart alarm clocks. I used to like anything that worked. 

Nick [01:58:21] I wanted to know how it worked. 

Nick [01:58:22] And that's always in my brain. And that lends itself to. 

Nick [01:58:26] Mechanical and like contracting and, you know, building stuff. 

Nick [01:58:29] But it also I also kind of apply that. 

Nick [01:58:31] In the the seeking of knowledge is like I just like I want to put my hands on, I want to put my hands on knowledge. 

Nick [01:58:37] And it's just been I've always liked interesting facts, but it's just been since. 

Nick [01:58:44] The Internet days. 

Nick [01:58:46] Like since the Internet's. 

Nick [01:58:47] In the palm of our hands that I've really, like. 

Nick [01:58:48] Applied that that. 

Nick [01:58:50] Mechanical application. 

Nick [01:58:53] To seeking. 

Nick [01:58:54] Knowledge. 

Chris [01:58:55] Yeah. 

Nick [01:58:56] That makes sense. 

Chris [01:58:56] Yeah. No, the same approach. What's one thing that you wish people knew about you? 

Nick [01:59:06] You know, I think the biggest. 

Nick [01:59:08] Misconception about me is that, like I. 

Nick [01:59:12] I come off as like. 

Nick [01:59:14] The grumpy like the grumpy old man. But like. Really? 

Nick [01:59:21] I guess there would be like I know you said, what's one thing, but I guess there's like, there's like two things that people I don't know that I want them to know. But there's just there's two things that people wouldn't know. 

Nick [01:59:29] Just from looking at me. 

Nick [01:59:30] The first one is that like, I'm actually I'm actually like really. 

Nick [01:59:35] A generous and really, like. 

Nick [01:59:38] Loving guy. I just I just take the long. 

Nick [01:59:40] Way around to get there, you know? And like. 

Nick [01:59:42] Most of the time when I'm giving. 

Nick [01:59:44] Somebody a hard. 

Nick [01:59:45] Time. 

Nick [01:59:46] It's because I'm like. 

Nick [01:59:48] Because I want you to. 

Nick [01:59:49] Be in my circle, you know, like, if I'm like. 

Nick [01:59:50] Ribbon somebody, it's because. 

Nick [01:59:52] I'm like, I see value in your friendship. Right. 

Nick [01:59:55] You know, But it's almost like a little bit of a of. 

Nick [01:59:57] A like a tempering, you know, like. 

Nick [01:59:59] Like put him to the fire and. 

Nick [02:00:00] Hammer on them a bit and. 

Nick [02:00:01] See see what comes. 

Chris [02:00:03] Sharpening them. 

Nick [02:00:03] Sharpening them. Yeah. 

Nick [02:00:05] The other, the other thing that people don't. 

Nick [02:00:09] Know about me unless they talk to me like this is like. 

Nick [02:00:12] I mean, like you said. 

Nick [02:00:13] Earlier, like. 

Nick [02:00:14] I play is. 

Nick [02:00:15] Like. 

Nick [02:00:15] Now I'm just a I'm just a I'm just a dumb white trash. 

Nick [02:00:19] Kid from, you know. 

Nick [02:00:20] A town of 3000. 

Nick [02:00:21] People. 

Nick [02:00:22] But I'm actually. 

Nick [02:00:23] A really intelligent, well-spoken. 

Nick [02:00:26] Learned guy, you know, like. But but on the on the other side of that coin, like. 

Nick [02:00:30] I've earned. 

Nick [02:00:32] I've earned that. It's not. I'm not. I'm not naturally, I don't have a. 

Nick [02:00:38] Natural talent of like a high IQ or of being smart. 

Nick [02:00:43] It's not like I've earned the right. 

Nick [02:00:44] To say, like I have a lot of knowledge, Like I've earned that right because I've worked hard. 

Nick [02:00:50] To get it, you know? It's like, it's like it's like I'm a I'm a. 

Nick [02:00:52] Drummer and I'm a really good drummer. 

Nick [02:00:54] But I'm not I'm not naturally good. It took me a long time to pick it up. And the reason that when I step onto a stage that I'm the. 

Nick [02:01:02] Best musician on the stage. 

Nick [02:01:04] Typically is because. 

Nick [02:01:05] I've earned that right, because I've worked really, really, really hard, you know? And so, you know, there's natural musicians. When I was when I was there, I got a bit of a tangent here, but when I was a teenager, I was friends with four brothers of various ages that were all musicians. 

Nick [02:01:21] And they were all that like. I'm going to pick. 

Nick [02:01:24] Up an instrument that I've never seen before, and within an hour I'm able to make it. 

Nick [02:01:28] Make some sort of decent sound. You know, maybe not play it, but. 

Chris [02:01:32] They just had that gift. 

Nick [02:01:34] They just have that gift. I don't have the gift. 

Nick [02:01:36] Of being a natural musician. 

Nick [02:01:39] But I have a passion. 

Nick [02:01:40] For being a musician. 

Nick [02:01:41] And so, like, I can guarantee you one thing. 

Nick [02:01:44] About myself is that. 

Nick [02:01:46] If I'm in a room sharing knowledge with people. 

Nick [02:01:49] Or if I'm in a room playing music. 

Nick [02:01:51] With people, I can almost guarantee you that. 

Nick [02:01:54] I have worked harder to earn. 

Nick [02:01:56] That than anybody. 

Nick [02:01:57] Else in the room. And that's a fact. 

Chris [02:02:00] Mm hmm. So you're really hard worker, too Hard worker? 

Nick [02:02:03] Yeah. Works Never been. 

Nick [02:02:05] You know, And it's interestingly enough. So I had to go to high school. 

Nick [02:02:08] For five years. 

Nick [02:02:10] Because in high school, I didn't mind being a. 

Nick [02:02:13] Hard worker if I enjoyed it. But like, homework, I'm like, I got to be here 7 hours a day. Why would I. 

Nick [02:02:19] Go home and want to do this summer? Like my parents don't do that. Like, yeah, they come home from work in their home, you know? So, like, why would I want to sit at my kitchen table and do math. 

Nick [02:02:28] For another hour? 

Nick [02:02:30] And so, like, I didn't do not one. 

Nick [02:02:32] Homework assignment from. 

Nick [02:02:35] About halfway through seventh. 

Nick [02:02:36] Grade, all the way through my fifth year of high school. And then I finally I finally graduated. I had to go to, like, a special school to graduate, but I graduated a year late. 

Nick [02:02:47] And so, like. I've had two. 

Nick [02:02:50] Really in my adult. 

Nick [02:02:51] Life, had to really apply myself to things that I didn't enjoy. 

Nick [02:02:57] And. 

Nick [02:02:59] Figure. 

Nick [02:02:59] Out how to make them enjoyable. 

Nick [02:03:01] Enough that I could put. 

Nick [02:03:02] In the work to. 

Nick [02:03:03] To. 

Nick [02:03:04] Get proficient at them. 

Nick [02:03:05] Like I still. Math. I still hate math, but I can do 16th and 32nd. 

Nick [02:03:12] Fractions. 

Nick [02:03:13] In my head because that's. 

Nick [02:03:14] Applicable to. 

Nick [02:03:15] Measurements. 

Nick [02:03:16] That I make every day. 

Nick [02:03:18] So, you know, I, I figured out by applying. By applying that stuff mechanically to my two things that I needed. Like, I just I figured out a way to apply this stuff. 

Nick [02:03:32] Where it's like. 

Nick [02:03:33] Now I kind of enjoy. 

Nick [02:03:34] Like somebody is like, let's see, you know, it's it's not you know. 

Nick [02:03:37] It's not a half, it's not quite, you know, five, eight. 

Nick [02:03:40] So I'm like, okay, well, a half is for a. 

Nick [02:03:43] It's, it's not quite 5/8. 

Nick [02:03:45] But. So now we're you know, four eight. 

Nick [02:03:47] Is eight, six, five, eight. 

Nick [02:03:48] Six, ten, 16. So our. 

Nick [02:03:49] 916 stats. 

Nick [02:03:51] You know, that's the. 

Nick [02:03:52] The sweet spot so like being able to do those in my head. So then I'm like I have like a little bit of that. 

Nick [02:03:58] Swagger about me because I'm like. 

Nick [02:03:59] Okay, you just ask me, I can tell you, you know, And so like. You know, there's there's there's people not not at my job now, but, you know, people that I do. 

Nick [02:04:07] Like car stuff or whatever with or we'll be measuring and they'll be like. 

Nick [02:04:10] Okay, what is. Like, I'm the guy that they'll ask, okay, like, give. 

Nick [02:04:13] Me this measurement. You're the. 

Chris [02:04:14] Calculator. 

Nick [02:04:15] Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and even though, like, I, I hate all things mathematical now it's fun because. 

Nick [02:04:21] Now I'm like. 

Nick [02:04:22] Like it's like now I've earned it. Now I'm like, I'm the guy and I. 

Nick [02:04:26] Love. 

Nick [02:04:26] Being the guy. 

Chris [02:04:28] Yeah. Join the club. Yeah. 

Nick [02:04:29] And yeah, and I think I mean, I think that's just like a, a masculine, if not human. 

Nick [02:04:34] Like response is like, it's like to. 

Nick [02:04:36] Be to be needed. 

Nick [02:04:38] In like. 

Nick [02:04:39] Like now, you know, to be, to. 

Nick [02:04:40] Be the guy or the girl. But there's, but there's this part of my brain. 

Nick [02:04:44] That's like, I don't want to be the guy unless. 

Nick [02:04:47] I've earned my right to be the guy, you know? 

Nick [02:04:50] And so the things that I'm cocky about, the things that I'm. 

Nick [02:04:53] Confident about are like people. 

Nick [02:04:54] Are like, Oh, man, you're really. 

Nick [02:04:55] Arrogant. I'm like, Yeah, but I've earned it. I've earned that. 

Chris [02:04:59] Right. And it's confidence because you know the experience and you know what all it took to get you there and they only see where you're at. They don't see all that time where you've spent learning. Yeah. Mean, you're a great podcast guest. You are really good at this. I think that. You're also a good example of talking to people because I see you around and you're constantly talking to people and your careers. All of the stuff that you've done really lends itself to this. So thanks for being on. 

Nick [02:05:33] Yeah, sure. 

Chris [02:05:34] Yeah, it was a blast. I'm going to have you back on. We're going to talk about all the things that, you know, we didn't touch. But for now, we'll see you next time, folks. Oh.