#34 - Kristen Kalinka: Here's How to Be a Great Long Distance Friend

Later in the 50s, you're like, you're never going to know what you're doing.

You're never, there's always something that's going to hit you, and life's going to hit you with eight balls.

Like it is, it's just like, they're never going to have a plan.

And if you have a plan, it's going to change.

Well, hey there, I'm just putting the finishing touches on this week's episode of the Talk to People Podcast.

My name's Chris Miller, and if you're new here, let me just say, this whole podcast is dedicating towards building your social fitness and helping you grow a better social circle.

We believe that one of the most overlooked aspects of a healthy life is social connectedness.

And this is something that we can change.

So we talk about it.

This week's episode features a friend of mine, Kristen Kalinka.

Now, let's go to the book to see what all we discussed.

You can expect to hear the art of being a long distance friend.

This is perfect stuff because the world's become so mobile and transient.

How to make friends at work?

Great.

How to navigate friend breakups and what to do if you feel like you're growing apart from your friends?

How to deal with self comparison and what if we're freaking out about our life plans and we don't know what we're doing?

All of these things are applicable, and we wanted to focus on friendship because we all have friends.

Kristen is a great long distance friend.

Once you move away, that doesn't mean you have to stop being friends.

So without further ado, thank you for listening to the Talk to People Podcast, and I hope you enjoy this episode.

So you're officially live.

Yeah, welcome to the dining room studio.

Thanks, Chris, so much for having me.

Honestly, it's such an honor when you asked me.

You know, I've been listening since day one, and when Andy told me you're starting a podcast, I was so excited.

But if anyone listens, everyone's new here.

Every time I listen to an episode, I always get at least one thing out of it.

So hopefully today someone can get something out of this.

But thanks so much.

It's an honor to be here.

Of course.

You have been a heavily requested guest by previous guests and by listeners.

Yeah.

So it's like, as I've gone more into this, I've learned the creator needs to think about the audience.

And if my audience is saying, we want her, we want her, then I need to make sure I get her.

And it worked out.

Yeah, and your rate wasn't too high.

I mean, it did put us two years behind in our savings, but I think you're worth it.

Thanks, Chris.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Who's been your favorite guest?

What's your favorite episode so far?

I think Dr.

Hall.

He was one of your first guests.

And he's Connection, correct?

Yeah, there was something he said in there, I think towards the end of the podcast, about always continue showing up.

And I think I read, immediately I was resonated with that.

So that was one of my favorites.

I love when you and Annie come on together.

It's so fun, the energy.

It's been really cool.

Jeff Hall, he's the guy who I want to be when I eat my academic vegetables.

I hope one day I can get to the point where I'm able to navigate this concept of social connectedness and the importance of relationships the way he can, because I'll listen to his podcasts.

He'll be a guest on some big podcast or go get interviewed by the Washington Journal.

And it's like, oh my gosh, that's what I want to be able to say.

So oftentimes I'll regurgitate some of the stuff he's saying because it's so good.

And what I've been learning is it's okay to copy as long as you maintain your, like your personality.

Like don't try to be someone you're not, but if somebody's doing something really well, then it's okay to, it's like copying Michael Jordan's jump shot.

It works for a reason.

Yeah, 100%.

You know what I mean?

Always stay true to yourself.

And one of the things I heard, one of the reasons why people are so excited for you to be a guest in the podcast is what they've coined you is one of the best long distance friends.

That's so, that's an honor to have that.

What do you think about that?

It's, I mean, I think moving, I moved away post grad, like 2018 after, yeah.

So I've always lived in my hometown.

And so I was always close by.

But I think when I finally moved away, I moved to Boston, I just think I try to make a very mental note that just keeping up with friends.

And it's like, you know what I mean?

I don't know.

And it just became a great habit.

But I think in college, because I stayed home in my hometown.

I went to a small liberal arts college, literally a mile down from my parents' house.

And I think I always try to make an effort to go and see Mia and Annie when they were in Kansas.

I try to do that once a year.

But I think when I finally was in the hot seat, when I moved away, I think maybe I was, I don't know, maybe homesick.

I never thought I was, but I just made effort.

I think that's the biggest thing.

Yeah, totally.

My roommates actually would laugh.

They're like, you're always on the phone.

You're always, not in a mean way, but they were just always like, and I was catching up.

I also have three other sisters.

So yeah, I'm one of five.

And I have my older brother, my sisters.

I would talk to my mom all the time.

So I talked to a lot, I don't know.

I think as life gets, that was four years ago when I moved, almost five.

And I think I'm realizing more and more as more things start coming up, it's just life gets in the way, and it's hard.

So it's like I'm really trying to make an effort, keeping up with friendships.

And every friend though is different.

Every friendship is different.

Yeah, every friend is different.

One of the guests we had on Dr.

Amri Galat, did you listen to that one?

He was Israeli.

He was a professor of social psychology.

But he talked about relational disposability, which is whenever we view relationships like any tangible good, and we'll look at them and be like, oh, we can just replace that.

So all the relationships I have in Kenosha, Wisconsin, or in Lawrence, Kansas, when I move, I'll just get new ones.

But the thing is, it's actually way harder to rebuild friendships, especially if there are deep relationships.

So when people move away, it's like they have to start over.

So one of the things that I was excited to talk to you about is particularly with long distance friendship, like how could people become better long distance friends?

Because sometimes moving doesn't always mean the end of a friendship.

Yeah.

Did you ever fear that to be the case?

Never.

I'm very blessed with my friends.

I grew up with the most amazing people in my life.

Like, I don't know.

I have a couple of people from grade school that I'm still transitioned into those high school friends, middle school, high school.

And I know they say sometimes when you graduate high school, especially, you know, and as you get older, sometimes your friends start trickling off in some of those friendships.

But our group was a really great group of people.

I mean, I think I recently was talking to, I forget, just an acquaintance.

And they were asking specifically about all these of our high school friends that are in this group.

And I was just listing off like, oh my gosh, this person's doing great.

And it made me really emotional because I was like, I'm surrounded by the most amazing women and people in my life.

And that, I just can't, I mean, it's a blessing.

And it's awesome that when you're older, as we get older, and you grow and evolve, that your friendships are growing and evolving, but you're still friends with that person, but it's grown and evolved.

And then you can still, you still have things in common, it's fun.

So you moved away, and I moved away.

I went to North Carolina for a few years, and I remember there being moments of feeling homesick.

And I know you had mentioned it earlier.

You're like, yeah, I think I was kind of homesick.

And in the moment, it's kind of hard to determine that we're feeling homesickness.

It's like we'll feel sad, or we'll feel like not as excited about what's going on, or we'll feel overwhelmed.

That's a really big deal.

You're in a new town, and you feel overwhelmed.

Oftentimes, it's because you don't have that social support, and then you begin to miss the one that you did have.

So you were really good at reaching out to people whenever they moved away.

So whenever you moved away, was there ever a moment where you're like, man, I wish more people reached out to me, because I know that I reached out to so many people.

Yeah, I definitely had those thoughts, but I think it was actually Mia's mom.

I vented to her about this, and she was like, yeah, but I think people also expect you.

That's just their expectations, and they're kind of like, oh, I know, I'm gonna catch up with her.

So I try not to take it personally, because again, life just, it's so busy.

I mean, the weeks are going by, the days are going by.

I mean, we're already halfway through summer, and it's just like, I try, I think what I try to do now is I try not to expect that from other people.

I just continue to show up and be the friend that I can be.

And again, every friendship is different.

I talk to Mia, like weekly all the time.

Mia and Andy are definitely like honoring sisters in my book.

And then I have a really close friend, Marissa, shout out to Marissa, one of my day ones.

And maybe we catch up like every other month, or every month.

But every time we catch up, and every time we see each other, it's like no time has passed.

But again, I think having those, being blessed with those deep friendships that I have, it's like you don't have to, your social battery is actually, your cup is being filled when you see them.

It's not like your cup's being drained, at least from my understanding.

Yeah, it's fulfilling and rewarding.

And I think it's because it's like you do have those really deep connections, and they know who you are, you know who they are.

They've seen all different kind of stages of the person you've already, definitely not the same person since middle school, high school, college.

And as, oh, you're supposed to evolve, you're supposed to grow.

I'm still growing.

I'll always keep growing.

We're growing right now.

Yeah, this is awesome.

And you are particularly growing because this is completely new to you, like sitting down and being on a podcast.

This is really new.

Were you feeling nervous?

Yeah, but I think I told you this earlier that I'm like, you have the gift of making people feel very, very comfortable, and you're very attentive and just, yeah, I feel good.

I mean, I think I was getting a little nervous.

And my angle is that you should get nervous, and we all should get nervous.

I get nervous before this, and I've done getting to the point to where I've done plenty, but still being here and being under the camera and under the lights.

Yet at the same time, it's like this, what we have going on.

And I feel for people who are like, I don't want to talk to people because of the nerves, because I don't know what's going to happen.

And there's so much uncertainty there.

I feel that whenever I'm sitting down doing a podcast, I don't know if I'm going to be sound super witty or be super smart or say the right thing or smile at the right time.

And I have to turn that analytical thing off and tell myself what could I learn from Crisco?

Because I know I can learn a lot.

So that being said, how do I get to the point to wherever I'm actively learning?

I would suggest people to have that same approach whenever they're going out to the world, wanting to talk to people.

It's like, what could you learn?

That's always one of the best places to be.

They call it intellectual humility.

Seeing the people around you as individuals who could intellectually contribute to you and to not being like, I'm better than everybody, you know?

Right.

Yeah.

What I was also thinking too is like, you just gotta be true to who you are.

And then that's the, I think that's also how friendships also are formed, when you can just be you.

And if those people are supposed to click and you click with them, then they, you know?

And it reminds me of one of your guests, I don't remember, it was the snack.

Yeah, Chianti.

Chianti.

How he said, how he just practiced talking to strangers.

And now he's just like, yeah, like that's, and I'm like, see, like every time I listen to an episode, I get something, if not more out of it, you know, one thing at least.

And that's definitely from that episode, I got something out of that.

You're really good at being yourself.

Would you say so?

Yeah, sometimes I think I'm to myself, like, and I, it's like a hand full of mouth, like, oh my God, you know, just stop talking.

But I'm trying to learn to be more slow down sometimes, like think before I say, because I've had a tendency my life to just ramble.

And then afterwards, like my mom would be like, why did you say that?

Like, why did you say that?

You know what I mean?

Because you would get yourself in trouble.

Yeah, or just like, you say something you're not supposed to say, and you're like, why did I say that?

It's like, think before you say.

So that's, you know, respond, don't react.

Yes, totally.

But being yourself can be hard.

And there can be moments wherever people feel like we can't be ourselves, because they'll be like, you're so over the top, or you're annoying, or I feel like you just need to chill out.

And I've had people say things like that to me, or it'll be on the other side of the house.

Like you're too calm.

I remember I was driving once, and this one person cut me off.

And I was just like, and kept going.

And the person sitting next to me was like, oh my gosh, I do not know how you didn't blow up on that person.

Like I would have blown up on that person.

And to me, I wasn't even thinking about it.

I was like, all right, he's in front of me.

Okay, I've got to make sure I don't hit him.

All right, we're going to keep going.

But they couldn't process.

So since we're wired differently, sometimes people will be like, hey, quit being like that, which is uncomfortable.

Yeah, but also there's tendencies where I need that feedback.

So my sisters are very well, really good at this.

And it's something I'm very, that's also shaped me into someone I am.

You know, our families always just like hold each other accountable.

And so again, if we handle situations that maybe we shouldn't have, it's just maybe saying in a respectful manner, and I have to do the same when I say to my sisters, like, oh, maybe we should handle that differently.

But I think relatively as we get older, we're not necessarily getting too much of that feedback, but it's some feedback sometimes good.

You know?

Yeah.

Like for me, some of my feedback, my sister gives me, sisters.

So I need to be more of an active listener.

Yeah.

So something I'm really mindfully trying to check myself on.

But everyone needs to work on things.

Everyone.

No one's perfect.

And I think that's like, again, people should hold each other accountable in a respectful manner.

And I think, again, I'm the person I am because of the people I've surrounded myself with, my family, my parents, sisters, everything.

How do you improve the act of listening?

Okay, well, one, not looking at my phone when people are talking to me.

So that's a big one.

Being more present.

Again, I definitely have to be looking at each other in the eye.

And then working from home, that's a skill I ended up losing.

So I have to mindfully...

I go in the office now once a week into Chicago, and I really have to be making sure...

I'm getting now that skill back.

But when you're working from home and just looking at people on the screen and you're actually looking more at yourself and not at them...

Yeah, you do that too?

Oh, yeah.

It's so funny.

I will put the screen of where I am nearest to the camera.

I do that too.

I do that too.

Because I find myself looking at myself the whole time I'm talking.

It's the funniest thing.

And it's not even our...

It's the camera and the projection that the camera's producing.

But we're talking to this person who we know, who we could be incredibly fascinated by, yet we look at the little tiny box of ourselves.

Even for FaceTime, if you double...

Oh, I know.

So anyway, that's another thing.

Okay, like not looking at my phone, like being more present.

Listening while they're talking and not thinking, okay, what am I going to say next?

And actually, like they'll just say, like, listen to me.

That's all they'll say.

Just like, just listen, you know?

And I have to be very, I have to be better at that.

And I'm working.

So they're going to be listening to this and feel like probably roll their eyes and laugh.

But I mindfully am trying to be a better listener.

That's great.

So again, something I need to work on.

I've always been working on.

Yeah.

So that's what you're working on.

What's kind of like your superpowers?

One of my strengths is actually relationship building.

So at work, we do an assessment called like the Clifton Strengths.

And so my theme that I lead with within my top 10 strengths is all relationship building, the six through 10.

So that's what I lead with.

And that 100% makes sense.

My number one is consistency, which I'm very routine, but I also have my creativity side that ends up like I get so much talent to a routine sometimes, then I'll get into a creative route.

So I need to like find that balance of like being a little bit more free flowing.

And but also like I'm a list girl.

I'm checking things off.

I got my list on my computer, on my planner, sticky notes, it's like, you know, I need that.

But then sometimes I find that we go on and I'm working on a project and I'm like, oh, you know, I'm in a creative route.

So consistency, what's your number two?

It's a communication.

It's either communication or discipline.

That's a good mix up.

Consistency, communication and discipline.

Yeah.

And then activator is in my five, top five.

And then from six through 10, it's positivity, empathy.

Are they all in relationship building?

My six through 10 are.

Oh, you're six through 10.

Yeah, so within the CliftonStrengths, it's 34 strengths.

Right, and then there's subcategories with the-

Yeah, it has like, I thought, was it five themes?

It's like strategic thinking, influencing.

Yeah, so my superpower is definitely making people feel welcome, I feel, I hope, at least.

And I think that also goes into just, I think I've always just been myself.

And you know, there's times as a kid, I was maybe a little, to myself, but I've grown into a totally different person, at least I think I am, not that little girl on the tennis court throwing a racket at the net and screaming.

And so I hope I am a little bit-

Because you were competitive.

Yeah, I was so hard on myself.

Self-critical.

Yeah, just making a scene clearly.

Speaking of the CliftonStrengths, guess what my number one is?

Or, I mean, I need to take it again.

I haven't taken it in years, but back then, guess what my number one was?

There's so many though.

It was in relationship building though.

I'm pretty sure it was positivity.

And I had positivity.

Do you know connectedness?

Do you know what that means in CliftonStrengths?

Because that was one of my strengths.

I would have to have my cheat sheet pulled up in front of me.

One thing that my agency is doing really well at is really trying to...

People have to understand their strengths.

So I'm really trying to understand at least my top.

But then our weekly suggestions or challenges, for say like last week, it was like, I challenge you to ask a colleague or ask someone about their strengths and have them talk about it.

Because the more you start understanding your strengths.

So that's something I should be working on.

Yeah.

Because belief, connectedness, positivity, and then one strength I always wanted to have, I was kind of envious, was woo.

Oh, I think that was one of my low ones.

Yeah.

Winning others over.

Yeah.

I feel like I need to double check that.

Unless it's in my 15, I can't.

Anything that's like past my 10, I haven't memorized.

Yeah.

So I should look at that.

But relationship building is your superpower.

Relationship building is my superpower.

I think making people feel, like I think maybe to backtrack when I say, maybe I'm a little too myself, maybe that's why people feel comfortable around me.

Because then I can just, when I'm spitballing things, and then people claim, some people say I'm funny.

But then I think I have my sisters who are like, you're not funny.

They're like, just you're being an, you know, you're being an idiot or what they all say.

But to people who aren't your sisters.

Yeah, I mean, people laugh, I don't know, but I think sometimes it just say things.

And then I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that came off funny.

Also, I'm sure my facial expressions, I don't know if they're maybe under control right now, but say yes.

Say yes, right?

Whenever you say yes, your eyes go up.

If it's funny, you smize when you say yes.

Hey, I first heard about the smize on America's top model, Tyra Banks, smize.

I've been watching this woman on TikTok.

I mentioned to you a little bit, but she does poses.

Oh, yeah.

She's a posing coach.

So she'll have all of these videos, what to do in this, what to do in that, what to do in this.

And you know how Barbie is a big thing right now?

And Margot Robbie is doing all of the, like they dumped $300 million into marketing Barbie.

So they have hundreds of brand partnerships, but they're doing a lot of those big red carpet events.

And she goes down and breaks down all of the Margot Robbie pauses and all this poses.

And it's fascinating.

There's a whole science behind it.

Like what to do with your shoulders and your head, and you look this way and you look that way.

But I've been watching that just generally because I'm curious.

And then also because I wonder if it could help me at all, like on the camera.

It's wild.

The stuff that people can get paid for because she's getting, this is full time, full time creator, everybody's so interested in it.

How do you make people feel more welcome?

Because it's the superpower of yours.

At least I hope so.

And you, I ask this question, it's really vague, but one of the things I've learned is like ask vague questions because you get to take wherever you want.

And then the other thing is, you've already answered it, like you yourself.

I was going to say too, I'm a hugger.

So maybe that breaks sometimes, sometimes not.

But then again, maybe it's like reading the room.

I mean, I will say I could be a little shy, not shy, but maybe I have a wall up when I first meet people.

But once I start feeling comfortable, and then maybe I say something and someone laughs, and then maybe if I'm just being like Crisco myself.

But I'm a hugger.

I feel like, I don't know, just being myself, just looking at people and I don't know.

I've come a long way, but I can think I also, it's who I surround myself with.

Like my friends are very welcoming.

Actually, all my friends are very welcoming.

And I surround myself with people that may be a better person.

And I've seen that.

Which is a big achievement.

That's what I'm saying.

It's such a blessing to have everyone in my life.

I have very deep friendships from seventh grade, even actually one of my friends that I've reconnected with that we've always been friends, but my oldest friend, we've been friends since preschool, and we share the same first cousins, but she also lives back in Wisconsin.

So when I moved back, we've been hanging out a lot, and it's just so fun.

And we always laugh.

I'm like, we're each other's oldest friends, besides our sisters.

But I have very deep friendships that just make me, that they've always made me feel comfortable, and I don't know.

And like even my friendships later in life, like in Boston, all my friends I met in Boston, all of my friends I met are actually, whether people I live with, so my roommates, or everyone I met through work.

And I'm very grateful for that, because that's hard to come by, especially as making a hard making friends as an adult.

But all my friends have always were super inclusive, especially me moving out there and not really knowing, besides like my roommates were great.

They were very inclusive and like making me feel welcome.

But I think when it comes to answer the question, going back, my superpower, I think just making sure people feel welcome and myself and inclusive and comfortable.

Do you have many work friends?

Yeah.

Actually, a lot of my friends have left.

It's a little sad, but like that's life.

To different companies?

Yeah.

And they are doing awesome in their careers, but I still have friends with the agency.

But we had a really good core group right before COVID.

Then we all started kind of like hanging out.

We were on the same age.

And yeah, we would go out.

That's kind of how we started like becoming really good friends.

And then COVID hit.

And so we'd all go out right on Thursday nights.

Thursday nights was like kind of our thing.

Because everyone worked from home on Fridays.

This was pre-COVID.

And so, you know, it's kind of hard to kind of get to know someone really deep down when you're like drinking and it's loud and things like that.

But it was still great people.

But I felt like I didn't start becoming really close with these girls until COVID hit.

And instead, we were using our time to go on long walks or just go and watch movies together.

Interesting.

Yeah.

And that's how I felt.

That's when I started getting really close with them.

Because then I think I started opening up and being more myself.

So that took a while.

That took a while.

So those were my later in life friends.

So do you think it took not having the alcohol?

Or do you think it was just after a length of time?

A good time?

I think just quality time.

I mean, don't get me wrong.

We still also went out.

And we still, you know, we still did.

Don't get me wrong.

We had a good time.

But that's not...

I feel like when I got really close with them was during COVID.

Yeah.

Because I got in the walks.

They've been so inclusive with me meeting their families.

Because all their families live in Boston.

And it's just like, then you kind of...

I don't know.

Everyone's just so...

I've been very blessed with people who I surround myself with.

And someone recently told me this.

And that made me...

It made me feel a little emotional.

But she said, who you surround yourself with is a mere reflection of you.

Yes.

And I just was like, wow.

And it brought me back to your wedding.

When we were getting ready, for all the listeners, I was in your wedding.

You were in Andy's wedding.

It was a very big honor.

And that afternoon, we were gallivating ready with Annie, and it was the most peaceful, calm, everything.

And it was like everyone in that room was so close with Annie.

It was just like that.

It was like, oh, wow, that's such a reflection of Annie.

And I'm like, oh my God, but Annie is such a great person.

She's awesome.

And then I'm like, wow, you're also a good person, Kristen.

You're great, you know, like in my head.

And I'm like, you know, to have really great friends is a lot.

It says something.

I don't know.

I'm blessed to have everyone in my life.

That's what I've been thinking is you've said multiple times, I have such good people in my life.

I have such good people in my life.

And it's like, there's a reason why.

You know what I mean?

I hope so.

Yeah.

It doesn't just happen because a lot of people that you talk to don't have that.

A lot of people I talk to don't have that.

Meeting your work friends' families, that's rare.

I know.

They're the best.

They're the best.

Not everybody does that.

A lot of people, it's just, hey, hi.

Well, it's funny because they're not really work friends.

I mean, now they all have left my agency, but they're my friends, friends forever.

And I don't know, it's something to come by, because you're always going to have friends in different stages of life, right?

So I had my friends growing up, and I'm still very close with them, and it's awesome, and I'm very blessed to have those group of girls.

And then college, I had my college friends and my tennis friends, and then I moved to Boston.

And it's like, yeah, you have your roommates, and those are my friends.

But then to make friends through work, you know, and to then actually become really good friends, it's like, that's huge.

How do you do it?

Do you like message them a bunch?

Like, how do you get to the point to where you're seeing their family?

Because I've had work friends, but I don't know if I've ever met their families before.

So shout out to Dialla.

My friend Dialla is Syrian, and she was raised in Saudi.

But she and her sister went to school out at BU, Boston University.

No, yeah, Boston University, because there's Boston College, Boston University, BU.

And her parents were always living over there, but her dad actually came to the States to go to school at Mizzou.

And her mom's from Texas, but the story is her parents now live back in Boston, because her and her sister lived there.

And when he found out that had friends that went to Kansas, he was like, oh my God, I have to meet her.

Like, oh, and then I don't know how it all came about, because they used to live all in the same apartment complex, DL and her parents and her sister.

So I think it was one night he just came up, when we were like, we had like a Galentine's brunch or something.

And he's awesome.

He's the best.

Did you say go KU?

Yeah, he loved it though.

He was so funny.

And so I don't know over time, it was kind of like if I had dinner over there, we would do a Red Sox game one time.

And then my other friend is about her parents live in Massachusetts, and she's always welcoming over to her mom's house.

I don't know.

It would usually go meet her there sometimes at her mom's, and we go on walks and we have coffee talk in the little courtyard.

But yeah, it's an honor.

I mean, that's an honor.

Yeah, their family is always just so welcoming.

And then one of my roommates I lived with for all four years of living out there, her name's Emily, and she was very welcoming.

And her family has become basically like another honorary family.

So I don't know.

It's just always kind of been brought into that.

I guess I never really thought about that until now I'm talking it through.

Yeah, it's rare because I have, I worked for a big corporation for a while, and I never went to anybody's family's house.

And then the year before that, I worked for another big corporation, also didn't go.

University, I didn't really, a little bit I did.

That's something I need to do more of, and that's something that our society, Western United States, we don't do that well.

We'll move, after college, we'll move and go live by ourselves, or go live with like a roommate, which I prefer the roommate over by yourself.

But you don't live with your family, and that's one of the cool things that I think you've been able to do, is there is no guidebook for how we navigate life after college.

They say get a job, and then you find a partner, and then you build a family.

But that, like it's like, well what job do I get?

What partner do I get?

When do I build a family?

Where do I live?

There's all these questions.

So being able to navigate that at your own space, at your own pace, in a way that feels good to you, which is one of the things I love, because right now you're in Wisconsin, you were in Boston, you've been, myself, you know we all have our little curvy, bendy paths, and it's interesting when we reflect on that.

Yeah, I mean, I'm still working through that, trying to appreciate the season of life I'm in, and to also stop comparing, because, yeah, it's just, not everyone's on the same trajectory, and like, you know, same playbook.

I'm still fighting through that, so it's hard.

But then there have really good days, and I'm like, yeah, it's totally fine, and we're moving and grooving.

Like this past week, I was like, I feel really happy where I'm at right now.

Like there's a reason why my season's like this.

There is a reason.

And I followed my gut to go back to Wisconsin, and there's a big reason I have to trust that and to trust my intuition.

Part of you feel like you were not living up to what you should be living up to by coming back home?

I moved within three weeks.

I put my two weeks in.

My roommate at the time, Emily, they had a place lined up.

Did you have a job already?

No.

So that's all divine timing in a way.

No job lined up.

I just trusted that it was gonna work out.

And my parents were like, oh my gosh, we're not supporting you.

You have to really figure this out.

And I thankfully landed where I work now.

My first day was September 27th.

Then I moved out there September 1st.

So I literally got an interview.

Yeah.

And the reason why I got hired though is because they were filling a role for someone that was going to have an attorney leave.

So it was actually, I was a temp.

I was BJ from the office.

But they kept me.

They stuck me around.

And so I got hired on six months later.

And now here I am.

I'm still there with them.

And they're amazing.

And everyone I work with is the literal best.

I would take a lot of pride in my agency.

But I don't know where I was going with this.

Well, you were talking about...

But I'm just saying how, oh, when I moved, it was just...

I just was living.

I was just like, I never moved.

And if I don't do it now, I'm never going to do it.

That was my mentality.

I was like, I have no strings attached.

Just do it.

And I took a chance and it was great.

Was you what, 24, 23?

I was 23, yeah.

And I met all the amazing people.

And that was a great period in my life, those four years.

It was actually very...

And COVID hit.

But it's really taught me.

The past four years, I feel like I've done a lot of my growth.

I mean, I'm always growing.

I'm still growing.

But I'm a totally different person than I was even last year.

I was a totally different person than I was.

I mean, I feel like as everyone should be in a way.

How so?

Well, what I want out of life is different.

I'm starting to really start, like as you get older, and now I'm kind of freaking out, like where do I see my life kind of going?

But I think that's why I moved home to kind of slow down, because I was kind of up in this city lifecycle.

And it just kind of came to a point where like, what do I want?

Where do I want to live?

Where do I want to move?

How do I want to move?

Where?

When?

It's just like, it made the most sense to just take a step back.

And I thought about it for almost a year, like over six months, definitely.

So I know that wasn't a decision I just instantly made.

It wasn't something how when I first moved out there, you know, like this was something I really thought about.

And I trust my mom's gut a lot.

My mom's never wrong.

And you know, she never is.

She never, I mean, she knows best.

So I don't know.

I just kind of was like, I got to follow that.

And when I was getting a lot of support from my siblings, even from my brother and my parents, it's like, they're like, you're no, you're totally doing the right thing.

So you're thinking about it for a while.

Was there a moment that pushed you over the edge?

No, no.

I mean, I think I had my meltdowns though, of like, what am I going and what am I doing?

And thankfully, I have a lot of great mentors and people in my life and a great support system that every single person was like, you know, people even from later in their 50s are like, you're never gonna know what you're doing.

You're never, like, there's always something that's gonna hit you and life's gonna hit you with eight balls.

Like it is, it's just like they don't, they're never gonna have a plan.

And if you have a plan, it's gonna change in a way.

Something's gonna, you know, shake it up and it's just the way how you handle it.

And like, you never really know.

So that's something I'm still like, understanding, trying to understand.

Cause I think when it comes to the consistency, my strengths, it can really, I think when I'm not, I have this reassurance of something, you know?

Yeah, that's hard.

Because your strength is consistency, meaning you are able to maintain a pattern of behavior over a period of time.

Yet due to that, you also would like to have some predictability.

And it's hard whenever you don't know what the future looks like.

And then you freak out.

And then it's like, okay, come back to Earth, you're okay.

Everyone goes through this.

And it's, again, I still talk to some of my friends that are a little bit older than me, that like, again, if someone's trying to buy a house and they're trying to do this, they're like, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Or like, I'm freaking out because I don't know this.

And it's, everyone goes through it.

I don't know, you know?

And I have to, I just, I'm starting to really see that more often now.

And I love that you're talking about it because everyone goes through it.

And guess what?

They don't talk about it.

Yeah, because I think because we all think people have their stuff, their shit together.

Sorry, am I allowed to swear?

Yeah.

I don't, I haven't had many people swear.

So it's kind of like.

Well, I won't say like any F bombs or anything, but.

Feel free to.

My approach is people can swear.

I don't, but that's just my personal style.

There are some people who are really good at it.

Some people know how to cuss at the right moment and it adds effect.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Like, I think not everyone has their shit together.

You know?

And when someone is like being vulnerable and opening up and being honest and true, and you can relate to that, you're like, wow.

You know?

And if you do have your shit together, kudos to you.

You know?

Just wait.

Just wait.

The eight ball's coming.

It's about to roll in the pocket.

It just got hit by the cue.

And it's rolling in the pocket.

I just lost a game of pool a couple hours ago because I hit a ball.

Yeah, I hit a ball in the pocket that I wasn't supposed to when I was going for the eight ball.

Hearing you talk about this is so relatable.

And the reason why is, like you said, whenever we feel like we have our stuff together, it's temporary because there are moments where we don't feel like we have our stuff together.

And it's so convincing that we don't.

And then there are moments whenever we feel like we do.

And that's really convincing.

I was listening to this podcast and they said, don't make any decisions whenever you feel like you have your stuff together or whenever you don't.

Make decisions in the middle.

Because it's like whenever you graduate from your master's degree, though a lot of people will be like, this feels great, let's go get a PhD.

Annie.

Yeah.

Because they're super high, right?

And Annie was thinking about getting a PhD well before master's degree.

Exactly, yeah.

But the feeling of, man, this is really nice to climb this mountain.

Let's go climb one that's twice as tall.

And then once we are a quarter of the way up the mountain, we're like, what were we thinking?

You know, like it's hard to make decisions when we're at the high high.

And then at the same time, it's really hard to make decisions when we're at the bottom.

Like don't decide what you're gonna do with your life whenever you're in a depressive state, you know, whenever you're in a spot where you can't leave your house.

It's like, let's get stuff together.

Let's get consistency back up and running.

Then let's make decisions.

So coming home from going out and moving to the big city, I'm sure there were feelings that, what were the feelings?

Of coming back?

Of coming back.

Feeling like a failure.

Or feeling like you don't really know what, like what's, like I don't have, I'm comparing, comparing.

Like there are certain things that it's like, wow, I don't have that.

But again, taking a step back, if I'm gonna have that mindset, then I'm not gonna have it.

And I'm not gonna create that.

So it's like, now I'm really, you know, I am a positive person, and I have to remind myself of that, and remind me up, and that's why, you know, even more so lately, it's just remind myself all the blessings I have.

That like, there's a huge reason why I moved home.

There's a huge reason.

I mean, like, I'm never gonna get this time back with my parents.

Because like a lot of people moved home during COVID.

Where like their leases were up, or they moved home.

I didn't do that.

I still stayed out there.

Did you think about it?

No, no.

We were, you're chugging along.

I mean, when I moved out to Boston, I had no plan.

I was like, I don't know how long I'm gonna be out there.

Maybe I'll be out there for a year.

I was out there for four, but it was a good chapter.

I like to look at my life in chapters kind of, you know, like it's, high school was four years, college was four years.

Boston was four years.

So that was kind of like my quarter.

In 20 years, you'll be the president for four years.

No.

It's another chapter that I'm looking forward to.

You mentioned feeling like failure in self-comparison.

What do you do when you're in the middle of self-comparison?

Like, how do you go, Chris, go get out of this?

The gratitude.

Oh, the gratitude.

Like really putting forth gratitude.

And I can't take total, like, what's the right word?

Like you're saying you don't have an 100% figure down?

No, I'm saying like people have helped me get to the way this mindset.

Like I can't take 100% like credit.

Like I have a lot of people in my life that are like gratitude is the biggest thing, about, you know, appreciation, you know?

And my, one of my coworkers, shout out to Aaron, he always says this, appreciate you.

I appreciate, he doesn't even say sometimes I appreciate you.

He just says, appreciate you, appreciate you.

And just to think appreciation, really putting forth gratitude and appreciation.

So like, for example, the other day, my dad was putting together this toy or fixing something for my niece, Reina.

And I just went over there, I don't know, just nodding along and just started helping him.

And then it was just him and I working together.

In my mind, I thought, okay, this is kind of like a little core memory, like fixing something with my dad.

You know, like just little things that I started appreciating, and I'm starting to really open and recognize that.

And I'm like, you know, I'm gonna look back in this and be like, I used to always help my dad help, but they don't work on things, you know?

Another thing is I've been really grateful for my friends.

You know, coming out here, I was really like, obviously leading up to this, really looking forward to it.

Because every time I'm here, it's like time stops.

And I, you know, spent time with Annie this morning, and I'm just really grateful for my friends and the people that I surround myself with.

So anyway, yeah, I just think the big thing is trying to change your mindset and put forth gratitude and appreciation.

And that helps, that's been really helping.

And just really appreciating the season.

And my sister said recently, when I had, you know, kind of thinking, I think I was kind of in the dumps of like, I don't know what I'm doing and I have no plan, because I still don't have a plan.

She was like, you really need to appreciate the season of life you're in, because if you don't water your grass, it's not gonna grow.

So.

You better water that grass.

Better water, you gotta water that grass.

Why do you think you would have felt like a failure?

I think because I didn't have certain things, at least that I thought I would at this age.

Being married, buying a house, like maybe starting a family, because it's like, we grow up in the Midwest.

And like, that really is kind of the mindset I grew up in, that that was gonna happen.

And you know, I did go to a big city though, and people are getting married later in life, and it's different.

And I have, and I don't know, like all my friends were always single, all of them.

Like I never really, I think only now recently, some of my friends started getting married, but I don't know, I think that's how I started feeling, like you don't have these things.

So like, it just gets in your psyche, that it's like that negativity.

Like if you don't have these things, you're not successful, you're not worthy of it or whatever.

But it's like, no, I am worthy of it, and it's just gonna happen what's gonna happen.

My brother-in-law always tells me that you can't, and that your life's never gonna be at the same path as someone else.

It really, there's always gonna be something, and you're always gonna be some, maybe comparing yourself a little bit, but yeah.

Yeah, I feel that way too.

With this podcast, I'll feel that way.

There's this, there's these two teenagers, and they made this podcast, they made a podcast.

At the same time that I was making mine, a month ago, I was watching their posts, and they made this post saying, we just surpassed 100,000 downloads.

And I was like, what?

I'm nowhere near that.

And there was part of me, I was like, what's going on?

And then I'd see them do Instagram ads, and then I would see them do these posts about being on jets, and it became clear to me that they had a lot of money and that they were using the money to grow the podcast.

And just recently, I saw that they signed with some big publisher.

So now they are partnering with agents to book their guests.

And then whenever they do have guests on, more than likely, they're gonna be these high profile guests because those guests will have agents and they'll be on media tours and all this stuff.

And it really makes me think to myself, like, wow, that's so interesting.

We started at the same time and then they are well beyond me whenever you think about metrics.

But then I've had people reach out to me who started before me and they're asking me questions like, hey, how'd you do this?

How'd you do that?

And it's so funny how we get caught up in this because it's not transparent.

What's transparent with those two teenagers is they'll put this Instagram post up saying, oh, we have this many downloads.

You know, it's like, oh, wow.

And the people who you see who are your age and they're married, that's transparent because you saw those wedding pictures and they looked so happy.

But all the stuff that isn't visible is stuff that you may have already figured out and they're trying to.

And that's the funny part about the human experience is that, like you said, we're never the same as somebody else.

We may have gotten 10 grand, we may have 10,000 more dollars in our bank account, yet we may also be grieving because a loved one just got diagnosed with ALS, you know?

And it's like, we have no idea what people are going through.

But it's so funny that we still compare ourselves to one another.

I think it's also like our digital age that we live in.

But yeah, to piggyback off that, you never know what's going on in someone's life.

They're behind closed doors.

And sometimes you could even be someone's closest friend and maybe not know if they're not being totally honest or truthful, you know?

And sometimes, I don't know.

Everyone's going through stuff.

Everyone.

And I have to remind myself that too, that it's not just me.

But you know, I'm in my lifeboat, and my boat's floating, and it's going, and it might be at different stops, but it's still flowing.

It is flowing.

So what would you say to someone who's like, man, I'm 26, and people are buying houses, but I'm not?

I'd be like, oh my God, you're 26, you're fine.

I'd be like, oh my gosh.

At what age are they not fine?

I don't know.

Maybe ask me in a couple years.

No, yeah, I mean, that's the thing I have to remind myself, is what would I tell someone?

What advice, like I need to be taking my own advice.

And my advice would always be like, you're fine.

Just keep jogging along and putting effort in doing you.

And I have to remind myself that too.

I'm getting better at it.

I've helped so.

Like you asked me, what would you tell a friend?

Yeah, I said, well, what would you tell a friend?

And think about it that way.

And I was like, well, I'd say this to a friend.

And you're like, well, say it to yourself.

Yeah, because your brain doesn't, the subconscious is so powerful, but you really, we need to be more positive with it because if we're just feeding it negativity and anxious thoughts and it's like, start spiraling.

It's more like you could turn it around and really start, they say sometimes you have to just be a little bit delusional when you're manifesting.

It's more just like really believing what you have.

Yeah, so what does that look like for you whenever you're talking about manifesting?

How do you do that?

Oh my gosh, I'm no pro.

I'm no pro.

My sister Grace is super spiritual.

She's taught me a lot.

A lot of other people have taught me a lot.

But from what I'm learning is that, because there's manic manifesting.

Manic manifesting is like when you're doing all the things, you're saying your prayers, you're meditating, you're doing your things, right?

But nothing's happening.

And it's because you're not actually surrendering to God's plan or to the universe.

You're not letting go.

You're actually holding up roadblocks.

So something I'm trying to learn is to really let go and flow and be at ease and just trust, trust.

So again, so I think I said this to my sister like a month ago sometime, she said the same thing.

You just gotta trust.

I'm like, how do you trust?

How, you know, and I think it's just like, we finally let it be.

I don't know how we let it be.

Just really believe that it's gonna happen and it's gonna work out and yeah.

With manic manifesting or I don't know anything about here.

I remember there was a moment where I had just gotten dumped.

I was sitting on my front porch, balling, crying.

And my mom was next to me and I was pouring my heart out.

And she told me, you just need to let go and let God.

Yeah, it's so true.

It is true.

And in the moment, I was like, seriously?

You got anything else?

I need something more constructive than that because whenever we hear that, you just need to trust, you just need to let go.

You just need to.

You're just like, okay, but how?

Right, totally.

It's not, in our heads, it's not practical.

Yes, it is the truth, but practically, I wonder what that looks like.

I know it depends on each situation we're in, but it does raise the question, and I'm curious.

Like, hmm, I wonder what things like that look like.

Let me think about this.

Whenever I think about the word manifesting, what it takes my mind to is it's really hard to know what we want, like what we truly want.

Like, people will ask you, what's your dream job?

Do you have a dream job?

I think I said this to Annie earlier, that maybe later in life, I could see myself doing something with, whether it's a boutique or some kind of business, but I don't know what that looks like.

So, but I don't necessarily, I don't know if I have a dream job.

I have a lot of skillsets.

Right.

So it's hard and I am very creative, but I'm also very organized and I have, I think maybe a little jack of all trades.

Yeah.

But I want to be more of something that's a creative, like I could see that's a fight later.

Creative industry.

So you're a Renaissance woman.

You can do a little bit of everything.

I hope so.

Yeah, that's your goal.

Yeah.

So like, with that being said, it can be hard to know what your dream job is.

And I know me for a long time, I would always answer, I don't really know, because it's hard to know what we want, what we really want to do.

Whenever we're dating, we can, maybe someone's attractive, maybe someone makes us laugh, but it takes a really hard time for us to learn what do we actually want in somebody.

Out of a person, yeah.

Yeah, like what?

Our partner and yeah.

What do you wanna build your life with?

Right, what type of life do I wanna build?

Whenever you're house shopping, and you go, right, you go and you look at all of these houses, and you will walk in the house, and you're like, I don't really like that.

But it's like, well, what do I want in a house?

And your realtor will ask you, what are you looking for?

And you're like, hmm, what am I looking for?

And we begin to see, it's really hard to know what we want.

And it takes a long time, it takes a ton of life.

And we learn like, ooh, I didn't like that job.

Ooh, I didn't like that guy.

Ooh, that girl was not cool.

And like trial and error, and we start to dial things in.

And then once we get to that point, do we really know what we want?

Then if we truly believe that, and if we shape everything around that, like we do start to see things come about, which is so interesting.

But it's like a big perspective thing, and there's a lot of things that contribute to it.

But it's fascinating.

Yeah.

I've learned from friendships from being actually a bad friend.

In the past.

And I've like, you know, when they say friend breakups, I've had that happen to me.

And I was like, I couldn't really grab my mind around it.

And obviously you're young and you're immature, and you're just like, but then when that friend was like, basically like, you're not being a friend to me.

Like I can't have you in my life and cut me out.

And for like, because she was putting up boundaries, which it's like, wow, like, no, great.

No, like you need to do that.

And that was like kind of devastating, but also, you know, you're in high school and it's just like, whatever.

But then it came to a point where like, I just one day apologized.

And she was like, that's all I wanted you to say.

And then now we're still really great friends.

And like, I'm very grateful to have her in my life.

But she's taught me that specific scenario, that situation, that you can't, yeah.

Like I would, I was an insecure person and I would project.

And I didn't treat people all the great.

That's because I wasn't treating myself great.

Because that's how I was feeling inside.

I wasn't feeling great about myself.

And I was projecting.

And I was hurting people in the process of it.

And she really, that specific scenario is like, you can't treat people that way.

But what does God do?

God will continue bringing other things in your life if you're not gonna learn your lesson.

And it happened to me again in a situation with a person.

And now more than ever, it's like, no, like I know that, and that's years ago, right?

Like over 10 plus years ago now.

It's like, but it's really shaped me into who I am.

So like, be a better friend and to treat people with respect.

But also it's cause I've grown to really love myself.

I hope at least I do.

And that's projection, you know?

It's like how you feel by yourself is how you treat others.

And just be a good friend.

And it's okay to make mistakes.

And it's okay that to admit you've made mistakes and be accountable for them.

You know, I think that's a big thing is just being accountable.

I mean, sometimes you gotta go through that humility, which in the moment is like, ugh, do I really have to face this?

But I think at the end, it makes you stronger.

Again, there's a lot of gifts of the Holy Spirit, humility, charity, and, but yeah.

That's what I've kind of learned, if people can ever come out of it is that, I mean, listen, I have really great people in my life still.

They know me from when I wasn't probably the nicest person and when I would project.

So it's just like, I don't expect, like people are in my life for a reason, who they're meant to stay there.

But it's like, I don't know, I'm sure people in the past are like, oh my God, she's the worst, or she's not a nice person, she's the, you know, and I have to remember that like, okay, well, they knew me at a different time.

So friend breakups.

Yeah, I know, right?

It happens.

Do you think that's cool?

Is it okay to break up with a friend?

I think it's okay to recognize when you're not growing, but it's not necessarily a break, like sometimes people don't need to have an official, like, you're not my friend anymore.

Like, that was more just a situation that happened.

Luckily, we're all friends.

We're good now.

But I think as you get older and you grow apart, it's okay, sometimes you're not gonna grow with your friends.

And again, some people you surround yourself with is a mere reflection of you.

So like, you know, there was probably a period of my time in my life that I just wasn't my best self.

And like, I don't know if I'm really growing with those friends.

And that's okay.

That doesn't mean that we're like not friends.

They're always gonna be in my life some part.

And like, when we see each other, pick up where you left off.

But that's why I'm really grateful that I have my deep, deep, deep core friends that I have.

And you created boundaries for those relationships.

I think so.

Or maybe they created boundaries with me too.

Yeah.

But they went up.

But I've just learned a lot.

I have something my sister Grace said this like months ago.

She's like, you just have so many friends in a good way.

She was saying it like positively.

And it's a lot to keep up with.

But I just try to just be myself and be natural.

And one of the things to be a good friend is like, show up.

Doctor, shout out, Doctor Hall.

Continue showing up and continue showing up.

Just be yourself, be a good person, you know?

It's okay to make mistakes, but I'm just grateful to have everyone and all the support that I have for my friends in my life.

Yeah.

How are you signing off?

How am I signing off?

I guess that's what I'm signing off.

Shh, shh, how am I signing off?

Just be you, be true.

Be you, be true.

No one could have said it better.

Well, thank you for being here.

Thanks, Chris.

This is so wonderful.

I hope to be invited back someday.

Ooh, number two.

Yeah.

Guest spot number two.

I like that.

I like that.

Do you, I wonder if it'll be like an InSun Studio.

We'll see.

Regardless, this is great.

Yeah.

I love it.

You're doing an awesome job.

Hey, proud of you.

Found it.

Be you, be true.

And we will see you next time.

And that's it for this week's episode of the Talk to People Podcast.

Again, thank you for being here.

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