#37 - Emily Farley: Leading with Empathy, the Power of Thoughtful Communication

My name is Chris, this is Sunny, and welcome to the Talk to People Podcast.

I started this podcast in January of 2023 to educate and inform people about the importance of social connection.

We believe that social connection has healing power, and your life is better when you talk to people.

In this conversation, we talk about a variety of things that I believe will help you, because I know they helped me.

From how to ask questions with empathy, the art of sharing someone else's story, the importance of being able to illustrate your own narrative, and how to navigate the burdens of leadership.

I just finished editing the episode, so now we can all watch it.

But before we do, if you could subscribe to the YouTube channel, that's gonna help this show grow.

I'll give you a chance to do that now.

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Emily is a really brilliant person, and there were so many good nuggets in here.

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Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, Emily Farley.

Okay, well, Ms.

Emily Farley, welcome to the dining room studio.

Thank you for having me.

How are you doing today?

I'm good.

A little salty with the weather in all the ways, but I'm good.

I'm very excited and nervous to speak to you.

We were playing soccer this morning at 6 a.m.

and it was so hot.

We were sweating like crazy.

So I'm hoping this comes to an end soon.

One would like to think.

One would like to think, but we're gonna start you off with some rapid fire questions, okay?

I'm ready.

Are you ready?

All right, what has been your favorite age so far?

My favorite age, I think was 28 years old.

Ooh, why was that?

I was a little bit more settled in my career.

My now husband and I were planning a wedding.

We just bought a house.

Oh wow.

I think I was in the midst of my masters, but I just kind of felt together at 28.

I could still have a good time, but I had some money and things just felt a little bit more tangible.

But I would say 28.

28, that's a good age.

I also feel like my soul is still 28.

So I'm 28 currently.

Oh, that's fun.

So I'm living your favorite age.

You're living my best life.

Yeah, right.

And I just turned 28 two months ago, so I have 10 months of 28 left.

And I would like to say this is my favorite age right now.

So we have a similar answer there.

Okay, what has been your favorite thing to do during the day in the summertime?

My favorite thing to do in the summertime would definitely be weekends with my kiddos in our pool.

Just no schedule, no time, like time kind of just pauses.

And so I think the summer in the pool with the kids has been my favorite.

You're chilling.

Yeah, mine too has been hanging out like that.

So soccer, I mentioned that earlier, but I'm playing Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and that's been my favorite part, but it's not limited to season.

So I need to find a good summer thing, right?

Because that can't be my favorite thing.

And then the last thing, if you were to write a book about anything, what would you write about?

Fiction or nonfiction?

I feel like I need like-

Give me a fiction and give me a nonfiction.

Okay, hang on.

I'm gonna see what, so my seven-year-old is in second grade and we were actually at the library yesterday.

Picking out, well, I had to get something notarized.

So you have some ideas.

I have some ideas.

Okay, so fiction, this is where like elementary school comes back.

Fiction is real.

Fiction, not real.

Because I think I get that nonfiction part.

Right, I know.

It's like, why do you do a negative?

Why don't you just call it like fact and fiction?

Okay, I feel like you want rapid fire, so I should give rapid answers.

That's the funny thing with rapid fire.

It's very rarely is it like rapid fire.

So I'm really into like, this is weird.

Western mystery.

Like that's kind of my summer jam right now.

I don't know why.

And then some Stephen King.

So we throw in some horror.

And like that, the suspense.

So I think I would do something, like, oh, suspenseful horror, Western mystery.

That's what I'd write about for nonfiction.

I think just human, I think what you're doing with this podcast, like the Talk to People, people is what my, that's my jam, that's my passion.

That's my career aspirations.

It's people.

So people behave, I mean, the behavior of people.

So have you always been interested in social behavior?

I would say yes, I have been.

I started out kind of dabbling in sociology, thinking I would do like criminal, crime scene investigations and all of that when I was younger.

I think people are just fascinating.

It's how everything happens.

There is something very tangible about people, but what's not tangible is why they do things the way they do it.

That's fascinating.

And it's really fascinating.

And I love what you're doing.

For those who don't know, you work with Bert Nash, which is all about bringing mental health support to the city, Douglas County.

And with my family, we have a lot of mental health stories.

We're both storytellers.

I work with this podcast and work with people a lot.

And then in your job, it's all about telling beautiful stories and bringing other people in.

So growing up, I didn't know much about mental health, but then I started to learn more about mental health whenever I saw my brother begin to have issues.

And there were moments that I didn't understand and my family got involved with NAMI, National Alliance of Mental Illness, and started going to meetings and just getting this verbiage and this vocabulary and this knowledge.

And then the more I look into communication and human psychology, the more I realize mental health is so important, right?

So whenever someone says, hey, here's this person who like operates in story regarding mental health, I'm like, oh, how cool is that, right?

So I love what you're doing, I think it's super cool.

And I also know that having a journalism background, like journalism is interesting, right?

Because typically journalists have a intent, like a motive, right?

Like an angle, right?

Right.

And then, but with people, it's kind of hard to walk into something with the angle because you don't really know the story.

So it's like your combination of journalism, but also community engagement.

How did you begin to navigate that and work in that world?

It's such a good question to reflect on.

And with journalism, you're right.

There's like a, there's an angle.

There's like real, there's an intent.

And sometimes, how do I wanna say this?

Sometimes it's not always, let's tell the good story.

Now there are journalists out there that do that.

But sometimes I think the journalism is, you're finding the headliner, like what's happening, the clickbait.

And in this world, my clickbait is, it's okay.

It's totally okay that you're not okay, but you should not do that by yourself.

And so how I got there, that's such a good question.

I ended up doing public relations for a state agency.

So it was at like a really high level, but it was very much press releases about things we were doing.

It wasn't really seeing the impact to the people.

And so I started working at Bert Nash, the Bert Nash Center back in 2014, and thinking about how can I tell our story without bogging down with numbers.

And granted, data is important, my team members that love data, they would very much sit here and argue to be like, that is the most important thing.

We need our data.

We need our data, people.

I am not the data person.

I am the storyteller of the data.

And data, they're people.

It's just not a number.

Like there's literally someone's life behind that number.

So I want to be able to kind of weed it out, have the person feel again, comfortable to talk about it.

There's so much joy and honor to be in someone's presence where they are telling you about something really vulnerable to them.

And probably most likely again, feeling unfortunately mental health has shame around it.

So how can I like just create a spot where there's no shame?

Because though I might not have the exact storyline that you have, I'm darn, it's probably a parallel where I can insert little jabs.

There's a lot of similarities.

I think the hardest thing about storytelling is that active listening.

Because when you were telling me about your, when you first started recognizing mental health with your brother, I so wanted to interject to be like, but how old were you?

So how old were you when you, and it's like, Emily, no, I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna listen.

And that has been something I have learned.

I mean, I'll be 38 next month.

I've been doing public health, where mental health is very much public health, for 17 years.

And I feel like I'm now sort of kind of figuring it out, how to do the active listening.

Just this last week, we interviewed three clients on video, telling their story, telling their experience, because I think I told you this, a story is like there's a period, right?

And I don't know who came up with the semi-colon.

I always, I need to look that up because I need to give them the right props for the semi-colon.

But that's why I don't know if I wanna say storytelling anymore, because it's, to me a story is the end.

Right.

And that doesn't-

When really it's ongoing.

It's ongoing.

I myself, it's an ongoing situation.

We all have it.

Right.

And it does not just with mental health.

It's, it begs the question of what to use other than story, right?

Being like, oh, that was a good story.

And it's like, well, it's still going.

You know, it's not over with.

So you're doing a lot of interviews and you're on the other side of the house.

You're asking questions.

How do you facilitate those interviews?

So with these, they get composed into a video that has to be about seven to eight minutes.

So three folks, it's about two minutes each.

But we spend an hour and a half, two hours doing the filming and have, we have this film crew.

Yeah.

But before we do that, I sit down like you and I did, we went, you know, grab coffee or invite them over to our office and say, I would love to hear more about you.

But I kind of, to do that, I need to know the before, which can be, that's the trickiest part, is the before.

Before, especially with mental health.

Because doing so, and you'll probably hear the word a lot, trauma-informed.

Trauma-informed is kind of what I talked about earlier, creating the comfort.

There's an ability to, if I need to escape, I can do it.

And that self-preservation, self-care.

Self-care is kind of the action.

Self-preservation is more of the, I know my boundary.

And so to set up, though, to have someone say, let them know, we're gonna talk to you about your before, Bert Nash, what happened during that time and what's possible now.

But without creating this, Bert Nash is this savior, because we're not, we're the guide.

We can help guide someone to recovery or help guide someone through their treatment, but it's the person that created the change for themselves or created the possibilities.

And so really coming at it with that, what did you get out of that experience?

And my whole point is, yes, do I want people to support Bert Nash financially?

Yes, do I want people to seek our care?

Absolutely.

But I would just be happy if someone just seeks care somewhere.

And so that's kind of a thing I value about where I spend my days at Bert Nash is, sure, would it be great if people did that for with us?

Yeah.

But I want people to feel the right fit, the right ability, and that might not be with us, even though I think it should be, but it might not be.

And that needs to be okay.

Because who's watching these videos?

So the videos are created for our sustainable funding efforts or fundraising.

So we do one fundraiser a year, and it's always in the fall, I'm here in town at Miscelli's.

Steve Miscelli is just-

Big supporter.

Big supporter.

And they make good food.

They make amazing food.

They have this scone with cheddar and bacon in it.

Oh, is that your go-to?

That's my go-to.

I'm a salt, like again, salty.

Savory.

I like the savory stuff.

I'm not a sweets person.

So we do that, and it's the best way for us to show what we do.

And then what we do with it is we have it on our YouTube channel, and it's a really nice collection of different stories throughout the years and different ways that we can tell the mission of Bert Nash is through those videos.

We also use it with new employee orientation.

We have, I mean, we have a staff of over 360.

And mental health, community mental health is not just one thing.

It encompasses truly a whole person approach.

So many times people come to work in mental health, community mental health, and they're just not quite sure what these other place, other sections, departments do.

So if we can kind of describe to them, like, what did you just sign up for?

Many times people know, cause they're the clinicians, they get it.

But I think having that sense of what am I capable of helping someone do is a good illustration of that work.

And that's what we use those videos for too.

Yeah, it functions as a good cause connection, right?

You connect them to the cause.

So the community approach, what does it look like whenever someone enters, like gets service from Bert Nash?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to ask what it is.

Is it like, say someone needs help with their mental health, and then like, okay, Bert Nash, that's the place to go.

So what does that process look like?

So it kind of depends on what someone wants, but really we have, anyone can walk through our doors and kind of go through the first intake process and you kind of have to tell your story.

And then a clinical therapist kind of goes through and decides, here's what they're kind of seeing right now.

And they're going to set up a next step with a therapist or maybe it's case management, someone with a persistent mental illness.

So for an example, someone with psychosis, which can be bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, someone that really needs more acute, maybe long-term care to get through all the life paths.

And so case management's really beneficial for those folks.

The other beauty about Bert Nash is we are operating a crisis center here in the county, in Douglas County.

It's a partnership with Douglas County, the citizens of Douglas County that voted for it.

And Bert Nash, we're running the crisis center.

So if you're feeling that you just no longer can handle what's going on, that's 24-7, 365 days a year, a crisis center.

So folks can get connected to us that way or other resources.

You just drive up to it?

Is it like a building or is it a hotline?

No, so it's a building.

We are connected to a hotline.

So if you're familiar with 9-8-8, the suicide prevention hotline, Douglas County has a specific number two through the Kansas Suicide Prevention Headquarters.

And we partner with them to have people reach out through that hotline because we know maybe a crisis center isn't necessarily what the person needs, but maybe it's just talking to a counselor.

We also have a mobile response team that can also go out.

So if a person's on the phone and they need help now with consent, we can go out there.

It's kind of like a mini crisis center on wheels.

And so we have that available too.

And so there are a lot of different paths to be connected to mental health.

Bert Nash isn't the only one.

There's DECA, there's Heartland RADAC.

There's so many different partners that do this work with us.

Your primary care physician, like doctor, Heartland Community Health, all these folks, that's kind of the beauty.

I'm gonna go with beauty with COVID, is the beauty with COVID.

Right, the silver lining, right?

Right, like, and like I was kind of alluding to earlier, I want people to come see us, but we, I just want people to get help.

And so at this point, if there are other organizations that also can be providing therapy or group therapy, that's so great.

And we do, I think we do a really nice job in our community, leaning into each other.

So you walk through the door, they have the intake process.

And then from there, it's the idea of, all right, what do you need?

You know, what could be the best for you?

Telling your before story, I really liked how you said that, like, that's the hardest part, right?

Because you don't know exactly what's happened and you have to figure out, it's similar to when you go to a doctor, it's like, hey, I have pain.

It's like, okay, could you tell me more?

You know, like, it would really be helpful if we could learn more and understand what's going on.

So navigating that beginning is challenging.

And like, when do you start?

When do you end, right?

What do you include?

That has to be a hard part.

Right, because not everything has a milestone to it.

Like, I don't need a date, you don't need to like go into like what you did.

But how did you, what was for you, what registered that it's time?

You know, it's kind of like, if someone were to ask me, Emily, when did you decide you had anxiety?

Well, in what part of my life?

We can go from fifth grade to, you know.

Several different parts.

Several different parts.

So, I think that's always the tricky part is, and honestly, it's that person's experience.

I don't want to have to, but it's helpful to have kind of the talking points, as you know.

You kind of want to write out some leading interview questions, but half the time, the conversation's gonna go from there during it.

Once we got past my rapid fire questions, we went beyond my preparation, other than my LinkedIn, or your LinkedIn thing that I looked at.

People use LinkedIn, don't they?

Well, the reason why people use LinkedIn is because it's a good one-stop shop.

So I have been active on Instagram and Twitter and stuff, but for this, honestly, Instagram would be a cool place for me to go to, because that's actually like more people's lives, rather than like, LinkedIn is so boring, but it can be really easy for me to take a, just like a line like that, like, oh, okay, you bring hope, dah, dah, dah.

Well, and they're kind of buzzwords, right?

I mean, it's your resume electronically for the world to see how great you are.

So are you familiar with imposter syndrome?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sometimes like, you know, it's kind of like when you asked me to be on, do this, it's like, I'm not it.

Like, I'm not your person.

And you were like, are you sure I'm the best one?

I'm not your person.

I have a team of people, they're my people.

Which is a great leader, right?

That's a good mark of leadership, is being like to a degree, right?

You don't want to be the person that's like, oh no, I can't do it, dah, dah, dah, which you aren't.

But yeah, I totally feel that.

And I feel that about this, like, what am I doing to have a conversation with you?

You know, what am I doing to have a conversation with all these different people?

It encourages me to chase my curiosity because like one person sitting in this chair, it may be like, okay, this person who's on the leadership team with Bert Nash, let me like try and figure out all these questions to ask, right?

I'm interested in that stuff for sure.

But it's like, well, what am I particularly interested in?

Because that's what I enjoy, you know?

So like, I'm interested in that you went in PR, okay?

You went like journalism PR, and then now you're a community manager for like this big community health center.

And it's, do you at moments feel like, oh man, I really have to watch what I say?

And like, how do you like turn that off?

Do you think about that stuff?

Yeah, every day.

Yeah.

Every day, and I don't think about just myself, but my team, the leadership, the people that work there, you know, my boss, the CEO of Bert Nash, he talks about widgets and how the world is just, you know, everything's a widget.

Yeah.

Well, our widget, it's people.

And so we are working with people every day, and my job with people is making sure that people feel like they can access us.

And so I'm constantly looking out to see what we're doing, how we're coming across, what's our narrative.

And so my own narrative, it is a challenge because I'm still Emily.

I'm a mom, I'm involved with my children's school, and I'm involved in other nonprofits.

I'm Emily, but because I sometimes feel like I'm still Emily at Bert Nash, and I'm a director.

And so I feel very guarded in that way.

And I have learned my personality is, I'm still a boss.

I am still a supervisor.

I still do these things.

And so I find myself where sometimes I just don't want to.

Like, I just don't want to.

I just wanna not be thinking about my, what do I say, my actions.

Like, after this, I'm sure I'll be in my car thinking, oh no, did I say the right thing?

You know?

You will.

I will.

I absolutely will.

I'll, my stomach will hurt and it will be, it'll be okay.

Because I am who I am.

And the people that work with me know me.

I have a terrible poker face.

No amount of Botox can help my face.

It can't help my tone.

I have a tone and I'm very aware of my tone with my husband, with my kids, with my coworkers.

It's hard to fake.

Hard to fake a tone.

Yeah.

That's awesome because I feel like in, because I know, like you said, leadership and working with Bert Nash and being yourself, it seems to me like you navigate it decently, like being able to joke, but then being able to be professional.

But I think about that too, like with the podcast, it's sometimes I'll say something and I'll be like, oh shoot, like, and I'll go 15 layers beyond what I said.

Like, oh, what if, you know, I said I played soccer, which da da da, and da da da, and da da da, and da da da.

And I'm like, oh my gosh.

And I have to like turn that analytical side off.

So I feel you.

And it can be hard to navigate, like knowing what to do.

And even me in the, on the podcaster chair, sometimes I'll have like this, I don't know what it is, like this empathy feeling of not wanting to ask certain questions because being like, oh man, I don't want to put them in a hard spot, even though it may be a good question.

Yeah, I've done, I mean, so that kind of goes with that back to when talking to someone about their experience with mental health.

I would hate to bring something up to someone.

Even a question I didn't think would spark someone's emotions, it can spark it.

I think a thing that, and again, it is something I've had to learn is to pause and let there be silence.

And sometimes I'm so quick to the draw that I just want to fill the void.

I want to fill the silence for that person because I'm like, oh no, I've crossed the line.

But I actually think it's okay.

I think when you give silence, some people can have that feeling of more thought.

Also as a leader and the whole like, sometimes I just don't want to do it.

I think it's because I just don't want to do it wrong.

Yeah.

And so like, I love being a leader, but my goodness, I really don't want to do it wrong.

And I think that's why when things happen in the community and I so want to jump in, I'm just like, I'm just going to watch.

I think also that's leadership.

Sometimes it's just watching, taking it in, and then doing, you know, having action and what does it mean for the people that I see every day in the hallways?

I mean, I don't like it when someone's walking down the hallway and won't make eye contact with me.

Like it kind of like sparks this, oh, I'm going to make you like me.

So I kind of get on this, like I turn on my cheerleader, which who knows if that's annoying to people, but I'm like, hi, how's it going?

I'm like, how are you doing?

I think it's really valuable too.

And this is just something I want to do is remembering something about someone so I can ask them again, to bring it up.

I think that shows people again, that active listening.

And I actually do care as much as you not looking at me in the hallway, like really bothers me.

Or like in a grocery store too, if someone cuts you off in the line or doesn't hold the door open, I try to make it like a compliment them or do something to be like.

Like, oh, you were very fast.

Yeah, like, oh my gosh, like I love your shirt.

And I, cause I generally want to be like.

Create an interaction.

Yeah, because it's.

Cause you're like, there should have been an interaction.

There should have been.

And maybe, I don't know, this is my mom.

And this is where I got really annoyed when I was younger.

But my mom, at the grocery store, she would ask the person, like, how are they doing?

But like, very intently.

And like, you could tell my mom really wanted to know.

And I was like, Brenda, let's go.

Like, come on.

We're at the grocery store.

This person does not want.

And now I do that, because I think it changes someone's day.

I would want, I mean, especially if I'm having a hard day.

And the grocery store can be stressful.

It's so stressful.

My husband does the grocery shopping.

So very terrible example, because I don't go to it.

He does that for us.

Asking someone how they're doing can change people's lives.

I remember I was an undergrad in the cafeteria.

It was called buddies.

I was on the meal plan since I was an RA.

So it was eat as much as you want.

And I was trying to gain weight.

So I was like in there all the time with the really unhealthy diet.

But I remember this person asked me, hey, how's it going?

And I told him a couple of things like, what are you working on?

And I told him, and then they're like, hey, you're gonna do so good.

And I was like, aw, right?

And that, it really resounded with me.

With Bert Nash, I would imagine, and this is my assumption, so you're gonna correct me or be like, you right.

I would imagine that recovery, hope, healing and healing is often involved with having social connection.

Whatever resonates with someone with that connection.

So, you know, one of the things we offer is group therapy.

Not everyone wants group therapy.

They just want that one-on-one, that one-on-one that is connecting with that therapist.

And a lot of times, it's therapists, it's clinicians making a connection for that person, going outside of the one-on-one.

Something that they focus on with some case management.

And really, they focus around goal setting with therapy and strengths.

Like, what is someone's strengths?

This year, our theme for our break, for our fundraiser, and then it's a theme that carries on.

So last year, it was You Belong.

This year, it's The Strength Within.

Is that that right there?

So this right here is our annual report that we create.

And each year, the annual report has the theme.

And so last year, it was You Belong.

And helping us illustrate everyone's ability to belong.

And we have the stories in here, and there's always a fun little way to bring back to that theme.

And so this year, for 2023, it's The Strength Within.

And talking about people's strength, which can be really hard.

And so I think with connection, social connection, it's so vital because of the loneliness that we can all feel.

I mean, I'm an extrovert.

And I can feel lonely.

Right.

Extroverts, right?

Their battery, their social battery gets charged doing stuff like this or being in groups.

And then the introverts are, we're all wired differently.

So we're all on different continuums there.

And then what's really fascinating is that one thing may be really life-giving to one person while the other person, it may be like, like you said, I don't want that, right?

So knowing that is really important.

And then with that perceived sense of belong, that perceived sense of connection, we all also are hardwired to need belonging, like you said.

So that right there, you belong.

And it's the, there's theories about it.

Like my wife, Annie, she studied it with the Relationships and Technology Lab at KU, NTB, Need to Belong.

It talks all about belongingness and how belongingness is as crucial of a need as hunger and thirst and all of that.

If we do not have those things in our life, then we won't be able to live a fulfilled life, live a happy life, live a healthy life.

One thing I did find really interesting though, is oftentimes we think about loneliness and isolation, right?

Now, loneliness, and you know this, cause you said we have billions of people on the planet, but they're still lonely people, right?

So we're not isolated, yet we're feel lonely.

And this interesting thing that I read last night was, being alone sometimes is like solitude, whenever you are, and it's your intent to be alone, can be really good for you, because it's self-reflection, right?

You get to do emotional clarity, you get to think about the future, you get to reflect on the past.

And there are moments where being alone can actually help your loneliness, right?

Because whenever you get to reflect on yourself more and figure out who you are, then that can help you navigate what you need and the social connection that you require in your life.

So it's fascinating whenever you think about, if you have the healthy amount of connection in your life, then one of the best litmus tests of whether or not you feel like that connection is you can go be by yourself and feel okay about it.

And then you can pop in with people and go be by yourself.

And we also see this whenever people get in a flow state.

For me, it's maybe graphic design lately, putting something together.

I can work for two hours and then be like, oh man, so I was by myself, but I didn't think at all about the lack of people around me.

That's fascinating, right?

So we can also, from that, be like, okay, it's not bad to be by ourselves if we have that proper amount of social connection.

Yeah, I mean, it is 100% how I operate.

Like I, my cup is full by people, but it also can overflow.

And so being able to be like, I need a break.

I've been married for 10 years, and my husband, you know, he's a firefighter paramedic, so he's gone a lot, and it works out so beautifully because I need my time alone.

Kids go to bed, I am just, I put down the phone, I don't want to do the whole scrolling because we all get trapped in the rabbit hole.

I am a better person if I can have that alone time, just even driving.

If I can just drive just for a little bit, music on, music off.

Sometimes I find myself with the music off, just driving.

Sitting in a quiet car?

Yeah.

Do you talk to yourself out loud?

Oh, all the time.

And I will talk to myself out loud.

Sunny, it's funny, the dog, the golden retriever, the studio mascot.

For those who, maybe this is the first time listening because they're like, oh, Emily's on the podcast.

I'm going to go listen to it.

So studio is our studio.

Sunny is our studio mascot.

And whenever I start talking to myself after a while, he's like, look, but then he's like, all right, whatever.

But whenever he's around, I feel like I talk more because I'll talk to him.

So I guess that's not really by myself, but I will talk a lot.

Whenever I was traveling all the time, I'd be in South Carolina talking to myself, Montana talking to myself, Arizona talking to myself.

Wherever I was, I'd be talking to myself.

I'm the same way.

Yeah, I have a lot of prep, like conversations.

Do you play out conversations?

Yeah.

And then you have a response, even though it hasn't happened.

Yeah.

I have multiple responses, like, oh, if it goes this way, which can be a little neurotic.

Yeah, totally.

Really unhealthy.

And a lot of the times it doesn't even go that way.

No, and then sometimes I get frustrated by that.

It's like, oh, I had something real good.

I do that.

It doesn't matter what it is.

I play it out over and over and a little bit sometimes in a fixated way where you're like...

Yeah, you like ruminate over that thing.

Yeah.

Now the trouble is, is if I have those conversations and I think I told someone it, I'm like, did I already tell you this?

Because in my mind I did, but it's because I already played it out in my head.

Do you ever think you forget someone's name?

Like, I've been in podcasts where I know this person, I've met with them, and then all of a sudden this little thing pops in my head that's like, is her name actually Emily?

Of course it is.

You know, like I've interacted with her, everything.

But there have been moments in my life where I'm like, yeah, well, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Like, I totally avoid the name, everything.

Oh, yeah.

Has that happened to you?

Yeah, I would say.

So one of the parts about my job is that cultivating, you know, cultivating relationship.

So what I try to do is I try to say their name a couple times during the conversation.

My thing is I sometimes will...

It's almost like a tongue twister, some names.

And I'm like, I'm going to botch it.

And I'll just have to say, I'm so sorry.

Like, remind me how you say your name.

But yeah, the worst is when we have events and we have name tags and people come up.

And I am like, I just sit there in my head.

I'm like, okay, start playing the name game.

So the trick is, especially with like name tags is, can you remind me how to spell your last name?

Because you're writing the name on the name tag.

Well, or I'm looking for it, right?

So they're very printed.

It can be hard.

And sometimes I just have to say, I'm so sorry.

Like I've had a fog in my mind.

I need you to remind me.

Right.

Do you know who Dax Shepard is?

Kristen Bell?

Do you know who she is?

Yeah.

So Kristen Bell's husband, Dax Shepard used to be the punked guy.

And then he was in a whole bunch of other stuff.

But he has a podcast that he runs.

And he said there are several times where he just forgets people's names.

And then he finishes.

He's like, oh my gosh, what the heck?

I knew their name.

So I heard that and I was like, oh, wow.

Maybe other people deal with that too.

Think of all the stuff that we have going on in our minds.

Yeah, a ton.

Ton.

Tons of stuff going on.

So we're just trying to filter it all out real quick.

To find the name.

To find the name or just to find the next thing.

Or the next prompt.

I was thinking about one thing.

And it's that idea of like, we have so much in our head.

And due to this, sometimes, regardless of how well we prepare for a social interaction, we have no idea what's about to pop up.

So we have you and I, and we're both in our cars, rehearsing our conversation, right?

Like, oh, this is going to happen, and this is going to happen, this is going to happen.

Then we show up and something happens completely out of left field.

And we're like, okay, all of our preparations out the window.

And then at that point, it just relies on your character.

You know, it relies on the experiences you have and the stories you can tell.

And on this podcast, I talk a lot about, like, talking to people and go out there and create a connection and listen.

I joke, I shouldn't have named it Talk to People because honestly, in good relationships, you shouldn't spend that much time talking.

You should be listening, right?

So it's like listen to people or like think about people or be grateful for people.

That would be just as good.

But whenever we're in those moments where we rehearse the conversations and it goes completely off script, then it's like, okay, well, it's up to you and how you behave and your values.

So it's great to be a good person.

It's going to help you build that network whenever you're a great person.

You and I, we both rehearse conversations.

You and I, we both navigate a lot of stuff to figure out the narrative.

And sometimes it's hard to find the narrative.

So then it's just like, okay, well, let's reflect on like the intangibles and values.

And as you're putting together the seven minute video, as I'm putting together the podcast, things will come out of that.

I think you're right.

There's things that during an interview, during a conversation with someone, you say it, but then when you go back to listen to it, something that you thought was profound wasn't, but it was the other part of the conversation that you thought, I just got a lot of value out of that.

You can feel to that expectation of how it's going to go.

The expectation can be really hard if it feels like it didn't meet whatever bar you sat it at, but then something else can happen from it and totally change the trajectory of that expectation and probably for the better.

I'm a planner.

I want to know how the situation is going to unfold before it unfolds.

I would love if the world could just work like that.

And I need to embrace the beauty of the awkwardness, the beauty of the not knowing, and that it will be okay.

The ambiguity.

Yeah.

Talk to me about it.

Yeah.

But you're 28.

You got some time.

You think so?

I think so.

Remember, that was my best and that was 10 years ago.

Right.

But you're only 38.

So you have a ton of time.

Yeah.

Because there's this whole thing going around that says 30s of the new 20s.

Well, your question about what's my favorite age.

Yeah.

I'm 38, yes, but it's been a really great time and hard, but also fulfilling in my 30s with my kids.

Some really hard things that we've come across and dealing with them and thinking, you're right, these little people don't come with a manual.

But there's been some really fun moments where I think I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Just hanging out.

Or like the giggles.

I don't know, there's something about when a little kid, baby, when my four-year-old, when she giggles and she kind of does it in a really deep way, like this deep laugh, could it be evil?

I don't know.

It's not fake.

But it's not fake.

It is pure.

And for seriously, for a second, all my worries, all my anxiety, all my planning preparation, I don't care about it because I'm right here listening to her giggle in that moment.

So 28, it was good.

What's been the most difficult part of being a parent?

Well, they are their own little selves.

You want to make them these good little people.

And sometimes when they do something and you're like, am I failing this person?

Did I do something wrong?

Why are they doing that?

You know, I can't be with my kid, my kids 24 seven.

I have to trust that I'm doing my best.

But at the same time, they have their own little minds.

They have their own little thoughts.

It's hard because I don't want to be a puppet puppeteer.

And that can be hard.

Giving up that control.

Then what about your favorite thing?

Is it the laughs?

The laughs.

It's also just the discoveries.

When they make a discovery about something.

Oh, like the aha moments?

Yeah, the aha moments.

Seeing the light bulb flick on.

Yeah.

And the way they say it, there's a lot of pride.

I mean, there's proud moments.

So my kid also, my seven year old, he loves soccer.

He's in soccer and he's now in this academy level.

So it's practices two times a week.

No, it is Sporting Call Valley.

I've heard about the other one.

And I heard it's really good.

But Sporting Call Valley, two practices a week, games on Saturdays.

My kid, he's a very petite little guy.

He's like still never on the, you'll learn this when you have kids, like the chart, the percentile, like the growth chart.

He's not on track.

No.

I mean, he's always been a negative, or 1%.

I mean, I'm 5'1.

My husband, he will not be happy that I'm sharing this.

I think my husband might be like 5'7, on a good day.

He would say 5'8.

We're just petite folks.

And my son is very petite.

And so he's, you see him on the field, and you're like, that's a second grader?

But he's quick.

He's quick.

And watching him grow with soccer has been fun.

And the other day at practice, he scored.

And he turned around and was running, and he just screamed, let's go.

I was like, who is this kid?

We watch sports, but we don't, it's your typical Jayhawks, it's the Chiefs.

It's, we don't have soccer playing all the time.

And when he did that, he scored and turned around and ran and said, let's go.

There was this like little, like this proud moment where I'm like, my kid's a badass.

You were like, let's go.

I'm like, let's go.

And my husband and I, we just like looked at each other like, we don't say those things.

So it's like, where did he pick that up?

Which obviously he can pick it up anywhere because it's amazing.

Like I said, kids are sponges.

Yeah, no better feeling though than to hit that goal and then to say, let's go.

Oh man, you could just see it like in his whole body.

The best soccer player in the world is 5'7.

Okay, this is good to know.

Lionel Messi, he was like five, I don't know, maybe like four foot whenever he was a teenager or 12.

It's weird because he's in Argentina and whenever you're really good at soccer there, then you go to the youth academies, but you don't go there just Tuesday, Thursday practice, you go there your whole life, right?

So you live there, you eat there, you do school there, you grow there.

And one of the ways that Barcelona got him to go to the academy and move to Spain was they told his family that they'd pay for the hormones that he needed.

So the doctor told his family like, hey, it'd be really good for this person to get this.

And he was so much smaller than everybody he was playing, but he's 5'7 and he is gonna go down in history.

It's kind of like not really a hot take, but definitely gonna go down in history as one of the greatest players of all time.

So that's really cool to see.

But thanks for sharing about parenting.

That's fun for me to hear about.

It's a very human thing.

And that's one of the hardest parts about the podcast that I find myself navigating is like talking about human stuff and then talking about like professional stuff.

Well, was it Mike?

Yeah.

When he said you're...

Right.

You're not...

It's not a binary.

It's not, yeah.

Right.

I truly, I was listening to that podcast.

Yeah.

A couple of days before you reached out to me.

So again...

I know, it's so weird.

So weird.

He didn't cue me.

I feel a little witchy.

Like, what's going on?

I was in my kitchen, one I air pod in.

I probably shouldn't say that Apple might say over trademark infringement.

I don't know how that works.

And Starbucks.

Sorry.

If they...

It'll be a nudge to them to sponsor this stuff.

Yeah.

You know, we'll be influencers.

Yeah, we'll be influencers.

Like, we have good connections.

People know me.

So Mike, when he said that, I was kind of going through, like, I love my job.

And again, I just, I want to do it well.

So I was, like, really thinking, like, really into, like, am I doing things right?

How can I do them better?

And hearing him say that in your question earlier, my job shouldn't define who I am.

I just have a lot of passion for it.

And so I kind of feel like I can never really turn it off.

And I think that's a boundary that I'm still learning to navigate.

Because I do, I love what he said, and I admire Mike so much that it's like, oh, I need to do better on...

Be gracious, yeah.

And you know, the kid thing, the husband thing, those are the people that see me all the time.

And I can take out a lot of my angst on them, which is very unfair.

It's kind of what you do with loved ones is because no matter what, they're going to be there, but that's unfair to them.

And I was really feeling that.

And so being able to be a mom, be a wife, be a friend, returning people's phone or phone calls, text messages, being a leader, being a community member, being all the different titles that we put on ourselves can be heavy.

And it's funny too, whenever we get reinforcement from outside, people are like, oh, you did so good on that campaign.

And you're like, thank you.

That feels really nice.

And then you find yourself working on the next campaign, you're like, oh, I did really well on that last campaign.

Oh man, can I do it again?

I better do really well on this campaign.

I mean, I can go for anyone's job, right?

But like the goal is always to go, is to do better.

And with humans, you can't really, sometimes you can't do better.

You know, like with conversations, it's like, how do I have a better conversation with you than I did with the last guest?

I was like, what?

You know, like, how do I even determine that?

What's the measurement?

Right, what's the measurement?

You know, like, do we measure how much time we spent laughing together?

You know, like the smiles, like, what is that?

And there isn't one.

And it's easy on probably both of our ends, whenever we create something, it's easy to look at the analytics, like, oh, well, how many people clicked the video?

Right?

How many people stayed on it?

How many clicks converted to donations or gifts or whatever?

Yeah.

They're speaking my current language.

Right.

Yeah, because that is, so digital advertising is not something that we dabble in a lot, but we're starting to kind of look at that a little bit more, especially with our new crisis facility.

And you know, the question is, what's your goal?

And I said, it feels a little flippant to say, it's to save lives.

Like, my goal is to literally save lives, letting people know this exists.

I don't know how you measure that.

And of course, my data folks would be like, oh, I'll tell you how you measure it.

And that's how, it's how you do it.

But as a qualitative person, not quantitative, I'm very qualitative, how can I illustrate the impact of this conversation that we're having today in that really meaningful way?

I mean, I've gotten a lot out of it.

I, again, I'm very, very humbled and slightly embarrassed that you asked me to do this and that my friend Josh recommended, because I...

Yeah, you gotta go get on to him.

Yeah, I send him a text, but I appreciate that.

And I need to be, I need to, I think we all need to be present for these kind of situations.

And I know for myself, it's also validating that you talk to yourself, you plan these things too.

Because it's human nature.

It is human nature.

All right, well, I have a few more rapid fire questions for you.

And then I'm going to give you the chance to have a final parting message.

So you say whatever you want to say to the world.

But before I ask you that, I'm going to ask you a few questions that are kind of going to get us there.

And then I'm going to set you up for that.

So question number one, rapid fire, what motivates you the most?

I think what motivates me the most is that tangible impact that I'm making.

To see something come to fruition.

One thing you wish more people knew about you.

I want to be that person that people can approach.

And I want to be able to create joy and belonging.

And I feel like that is something that I can do.

And I want people to feel like if they're ever in a doubt about something that they're doing, that they could come to me.

And I will give them that energy.

I will be their cheerleader.

I want to be that cheerleader for folks.

I think doing stuff like this helps that.

Yeah, agreed.

And I think that's why it's so worth it.

And I think that's where that motivation, that tangible impact is this, is being able to shed light on other people and to shed light on yourself and to kind of give yourself that, so I can give someone back.

Because whenever there's doubt, I just want to be your cheerleader.

Yeah, mine's a bit similar.

Mine is I want to be able to help others recognize their value and get to the point to where, one, in order to do that, you have to know that you do have value, right?

And then you have to subscribe to the belief that everyone has value.

So once we check those two things off, it's like, okay, well, here's how valuable you are.

And I like the place that I'm in right now because with the social connection, the whole premise there is that we all have something to contribute.

That's why we need to be connected, is we can't do it by ourselves.

So everything everybody else has, we need to have.

So yeah, I've always wanted to help others understand their value.

It's like, how do I do that?

How do I do that?

All right, the final parting message.

How would you like to say, or if you had a billboard that's going to be seen by millions of people, what would it say and why?

Illustrating your own narrative is something powerful and I want to empower people to illustrate their own narrative for themselves.

So do you think it'd say illustrate your own narrative?

Illustrate your own narrative.

Would it have a picture of somebody on there or just the text?

Some really fun graphics.

I think when you illustrate your own narrative, I could almost see like a graphic of an ink pen or something.

Yeah.

You know, my whole job thinking about that, and maybe I'm having some profound moments here, Chris, thank you for that, is sometimes people don't know how to illustrate their own narrative.

And so I just want to give them the microphone to do it.

And I think with community engagement, it's the sounding board for people.

I'm grateful in my 28th year of life, which was your favorite, to be part of the changes is having conversations like this one here.

So thank you for being here.

Thank you so much.

Thank you and we'll see you next time, folks.