#40 - Nana Amfo: Here's How to Talk to People at the Bar

Sometimes, you will see the most beautiful woman with the most regular guys, you know?

So, it's really, the first step is being yourself and being relatable.

I'm taking notes.

This is how I got Annie.

That was definitely how I got Annie.

Hey, you all, welcome to another episode of the Talk to People Podcast.

If you haven't been here before, let me quickly say that the Talk to People Podcast is a weekly show that explores the power of social connection.

We believe that life is better when you talk to people and when you surround yourself in conversation and relationships, then you will live a healthier life, a more full life and a life that's resilient to stress.

This episode features a conversation with Nana Amfo, who's the creative director and co-founder of Alpha Gang and the co-host for the Cruise Line Podcast.

Nana and I talked about a lot of different things.

She's currently in college, a college senior.

So we talk about navigating nightlife.

I'm sure you've heard about going out.

And to be completely honest with you, I went through four years of undergrad and I never went out once.

But I know that social connection is built whenever we go out.

Sometimes it's going to bars.

So how do you navigate nightlife?

How do you build authentic connections?

What about if you have all these acquaintances, but it seems like you don't have any real friends?

This is a really cool conversation.

I think a lot of people can benefit from it and I really hope you enjoy it.

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Wherever you're at, if you could engage somehow like, like the podcast, rate the podcast.

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Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Welcome to the Talk to People Podcast in the dining room studio.

Mr.

Nana Amfo in the house.

How are you today?

Good.

How's it going?

So you've been podcasting lately.

What's the podcast world like?

Honestly, we didn't know what to expect.

So the reception is new.

You have people engaging more in one platform than the other.

So it's interesting to see the dynamics between how people take information in.

So it's fun.

We're looking forward to conquering all the obstacles in the way.

And you have people approaching you on campus.

Yeah.

We've had a couple of people from work, class, talk about the the Chaw Chaw.

Because we spoke about growing up in Ghana, and we're taking the Chaw Chaw.

It's like for the people who don't know, the Chaw Chaw is like the bus system in Ghana.

And a lot of people have been intrigued by not so just by the word, but by the Chaw Chaw experience.

Because it's way different.

What is the Chaw Chaw?

A mass transportation bus and people cram in there.

So it's like a little, it's like a van, that's the size of a van, but it has, you know, more seats.

But like, you can have a Chaw Chaw for like 30 people and you find about 50 people inside.

And if you're not lucky, you might just be sitting beside someone who sells fish.

Oh, no.

Who smells terrible?

All right, I'm going to give you a rapid fire question.

Would you rather be best friends with Rihanna or Beyoncé?

Oh, I'll say Beyoncé because, you know, she's Jay-Z's wife.

There's a lot going on there.

And if there's a spider in your house, do you kill it or do you set it free?

A spider?

Oh, that spider gone.

You're going to kill it?

Yeah.

I don't, I don't.

I don't play around like that.

I don't really like spiders.

It's funny, my dad, he will be like, no, no, no, don't kill it.

We need to take it outside.

Even if it's a black widow, he'll say, no, no, we need to take it outside.

Take it outside.

Set it free.

You don't want that spider to come back.

You don't.

What's something you could eat for a week straight?

It used to be Chipotle, but I recently got introduced to Qdoba.

Yeah.

You think Qdoba is better than Chipotle?

Yeah.

Well, Cristina was telling me about Qdoba.

I was like, well, what is Qdoba?

What is Qdoba?

So I got introduced to Qdoba and I was like, oh, like way better than Chipotle.

And before that, it was stir fry ramen.

Oh yeah.

So I used to whip that up like all the time.

Qdoba does free queso and guacamole.

It's a better deal too, you know, so it's more value.

Last rapid fire for you.

If you could write a book about anything, what would you write about and why?

Okay, I think I will write on the nuance of the idea of design because I feel like there are not a lot of books about that because there are like rules about how to come up with designs, but there's a way to follow those rules and break those rules.

Those rules are meant to be broken.

I don't know if you get what I'm saying, but those rules are made so you break them, and through breaking them, you're following the rules.

But that's my opinion, and I don't know if a lot of people agree with that.

So if I'm writing a book, maybe that.

So what would the chapters be?

Chapter one, how does your life relate to what you design about?

Or how does your life influence your design?

Stuff like that.

I feel like based on your life experiences as a designer, it affects how what you see and what you hear affects how what you put out.

So, yeah, and am I right about tra-tras too?

Why not, right?

That's your claim to fame at this point.

So you need to stick with it.

Keep the tra-tra in there.

Right.

You gotta put the tra-tra.

If it's not broke, do not fix it.

Throw the tra-tra in there.

It's funny because you are what, a fifth year senior right now?

Fourth year.

Fourth year.

Yeah.

But you plan on doing five, right?

Yeah.

So you're in college and you moved from Ghana, Accra, Ghana, the capital, to Lawrence, Kansas.

Yeah.

All right.

You fly into Kansas City.

What's that like?

So first I stop in ATL, different city from like, a different airport from like Kansas City.

Huge.

Huge airport.

So I'm like, okay, this is the America I'm expecting to see, right?

This is before like Casey had the new, the new Oprah that they have now.

So first of all, when I land in Kansas City and I see the Oprah, I'm like, what is going on?

Well, then I saw, I'm like so excited already, you know, to be in town.

Now, airport was not what I was expecting.

But then we go to the city, you know, we go, we go get a couple of drinks.

And my that was kind of like my first experience with like not so nightlife, but we was out in like the Plaza area.

So I got to like see what it was like, blah, blah, blah.

And then it was time to come to Lawrence.

So I spent my first night in Kansas City.

Then it was time to come to Lawrence.

So I cool.

Long drive.

We get to Lawrence.

It's a farfetched from what Kansas City is like.

But then I still have the excitement and all that.

And school starts time to go out to the bars and stuff.

It was a different time, I'll tell you.

You told me I was listening.

So for the listeners, you have been building the Cruise Line Podcast with your brother.

And your brother came to the US before you did.

So you followed up after him.

And then together, you two and others, you all like to build things, particularly brands.

And then from those brands do different things.

So right now you have Alpha Gang that you're building out.

And then from that, there's all these different things.

But one of the things that you all do very well, and this is something I've noticed because it's something I'm not good at, is reflecting on popular culture, particularly with we're in a college town.

So reflecting or commentating on nightlife for Lawrence, Kansas, or the party scene, or what this looks like or what that looks like.

And I remember you said you showed up with your, what was it, your Gucci shoes, right?

Like, showed up looking really nice.

And you're like, what?

There's no bottle service.

So it's a completely different culture.

Completely.

Because in Ghana, it's like you go out to the bar and they have bottle service, bars.

They have sections of bars.

So, I mean, I was expecting to see the same thing here.

So I pulled up and we go out to the famous college bar.

Everybody knows what I'm talking about.

And they do have cubicles.

So when I put up, I thought you have to go reserve a cubicle and you and your friends and they bring you your drinks and all that.

But then I'm wearing my Gucci, all that.

I have my Versace top on.

I remember that day so well, I had my Versace shirt on, Gucci shoes.

I was ready.

I had my nice watch on, all that.

And people are in pajamas that day.

And even though you get all the compliments on all that, it's still like you just wasted an outfit.

Yeah, it's way different.

And I think it's funny hearing your stories and hearing your experience, because whenever you're in Lawrence, Kansas, and you come from such a different world, every little thing is a big thing.

Because it's different.

Because we even spoke about what people were to the bars.

And you have certain people think certain things about you based on what you're wearing when you go out to the bars.

You know, like we saw the khaki shorts.

So I'm telling you right now, if I put on some khaki shorts and I'm out of the bars, I might just get all the ladies.

You're going to blend in.

You show up, you see what the sociology or what the group is doing and what the group values when you play to that.

So in Ghana, what's the legal drinking age?

18.

But you have people, you know, it's like everywhere else, people are doing whatever they want to do.

Yeah.

So you had a little experience before you came to the US.

And were you surprised by 21 being the drinking age?

I was surprised that you could drive a 16, but you got to wait till 21 before you drink because in Ghana, you can't drive until you're like 18, you know.

So I don't know.

I just feel like they need to put older people on the road because that's where like more stuff happens, you know.

I don't know.

But 16, too, is kind of young to be drinking.

So maybe like, I'd say like 20, but that's just one year less.

Yeah, somewhere in the middle.

But yeah, I remember because I came here when I was about 20.

And so we was in the plane and I was somewhere on like the ocean, and I had ordered a Jack Daniels.

So they brought me that, and I was drinking.

And once we got into the American Air, they were like, Okay, we're in the US now.

You got to bring the drink.

How funny is that?

Just a different part coordinate.

So that was kind of interesting to experience.

You're like, Okay, time's up.

You have to finish it quickly.

You got to finish it.

Here comes the United States.

That's awesome.

So you get involved with design.

Yeah.

I feel like I've always been designing my whole life.

We've been doing the whole Alpha Gang project for a long time.

And I've been working on the designs.

And even before that, I used to draw.

And I go for art class, stuff like that.

So it's just something that comes more easier to me than other things.

But I was a business major in high school.

So I don't know.

My life is kind of interesting, mixing the two of them together.

But I feel like with going into different industries, like advertising and all that, you need to carry some business qualities with you in that field.

So I'm glad I got that background as well.

Because you and your brother both are kind of young businessmen.

But you are so...

What are you, 22 right now?

So you're 22, but then you talk about all of this stuff.

Oh, we got this going on.

And I remember working on the podcast with you.

You're like, oh yeah, well, my focus group doesn't like it.

I'm like, focus group?

And you're like, yeah, we've built out a focus group.

Oh yeah, and my bloggers are going to send it out.

I'm like, bloggers?

Chris is like, what is going on?

Right, like there's all of this different stuff.

And to me, it's cool seeing, but it's funny because it's different, right?

Because it's like you are bringing your foundation and the way you're built from this culture to this culture.

And we see that a lot, especially with such like a mobile world now, with everybody moving and traveling.

And I think there's so much beauty in being able to learn from one place and then thrive in a different place.

Because especially like where we grew up, it's not as fast as a place like Lagos, Nigeria, but I will compare like Accra to like New York.

Like everyone's on Go mode, you know?

So you have to pick things up really fast.

And when we was in high school, I was so interested in using what I learned from the classroom in the real world.

So like whatever I studied in like business or like economics, I'm like, how can I apply that in the real world?

Like supply beating demand, all that, you know?

So it really intrigued me because in middle school, I wasn't like, I never like read books in middle school.

My mom will always be on me.

Like once you study in blah, blah, blah.

I'll always be like on like the bottom of the class.

So she was really on me.

And it was the thing for me.

It was I just wasn't interested in what they were teaching me.

So when we finally got to that point where we got to like pick out what we want to study, I got so interested in it.

I won like best business student for like two years.

And just being able to apply those things in real life.

That's what I was interested in.

I wasn't interested in X times Y.

Well, yeah, that's my experience.

And being able to do those things and in a culture or like a city like Accra, you get to learn and experience things, experience how like people are and how people react to things and all of that.

And it was fun.

And it's like a game, you know.

That's a good way to put it.

You win some, you lose some.

But it's fun to win.

Like once you lose, you want to go home.

You hate losing, you love winning.

But the cool thing is by creating, by being creative, even if you lose, you won.

Because you learn how to do this better, right?

Like with the stuff we're doing now, any podcast that we create or edit, we're going to be better next conversation, the next.

Like if I'm cutting the shorts, it's like, oh, hey, that was kind of fun.

The way I did that certain thing, then I can implement that.

And that's the beauty about the creative process is there's really no losing.

Yeah.

It's like, and with what you're doing now with the podcast, you're creating the CruiseLine Podcast, even if the analytics don't pop off, if you don't get the numbers you don't want, at some point in time, somebody's going to look at the podcast and be like, oh, look at their body of work, right?

And building that body of work.

And you may not have gotten 100,000 downloads, but you have so much work that you create a testament for yourself.

It's all about portfolio, what you have in the vault.

Because one day someone's going to see that and be like, I need you to do this for me.

Yes.

And that is going to pay off at the end of the day.

What if I was like, I was a billionaire, and I had met you, and I was like, oh, can you help us do the podcast?

And I had like a billion dollars ready for you.

So it's all about what you put out there and stuff like that.

One day, one day, someone's going to see it and be like, I need you to do this for me, just like how you did it for yourself.

And it will always, always pay off.

Because at the end of the day, I was reading, I've been reading this book by Alex, and it's all about giving value.

Or Mozi.

Giving value to people.

And once you give people value, that's when they value your product.

And that's when they're willing to support you in any way that they can.

Because it makes sense because they're paying for value.

Just like when we go to the grocery store and we get the mandarin orange, we're paying for the tactile process of peeling off the orange and popping it in our mouths and sinking our teeth and getting that tart but sugary feeling and the nutrition and nourishment we feel after.

Versus whenever you create and you get to add value.

I get a lot of pressure.

I don't know if you felt this way yet with the podcast, but the pressure of adding value.

Like, I don't want an empty hour to go through.

And it's hard with this format of podcasting because you and I have a conversation or me and a different guest, I'll put a lot of pressure.

Like, oh man, I want it to be valuable.

So if maybe one of us is having an off day, or if we feel like it's not hitting, then we'll get hard on ourself, and then that affects the conversation.

You know?

Yeah.

So it's crazy how if you think too much about it, then it will actually be destructive.

And...

That's the thing about it.

You just have to...

You just have to flow.

You have to go through the emotions of life, and let it come naturally.

Let everything you do be natural.

Once you realize that you're forcing something, you might need to take a step back and look at what I'm doing wrong, or look at what your emotions are trying to tell you.

You know?

Sometimes we don't listen to our emotions, or listen to ourself, or take some time to ourselves and listen to what we have to say, or what we have to tell ourselves.

In moments like that, that's what you have to do.

I was watching this cartoon, Elemental, have you seen it?

And she, well, I don't remember her name, but the main character, the girl, was like, she's like a fireball and her emotions are trying to tell her things that, you know, she didn't want to listen to them because she didn't think like they mattered.

So she suppressed them.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, it affected how she went through her day to day life.

So we have to listen to what our emotions are telling us.

And the more we listen, then the better we're able to create from them.

And that's when you get into cool stuff.

Exactly.

You see the things and you ask yourself, how did the person make that?

And the truth is, we can't really unpack how, because we can't unpack all the wiring.

It just happened.

And it was because this person had a vision, they had emotions they created from that.

And then if you think about that even deeper, it's every single person on the planet is wired in a unique way to the point to where they could create something like that if they listened.

Yeah, but I feel like a big part of that too is like praying because like probably not a lot of people believe in that, but I feel like for me when I get some time to like, I spend a week, you know, I like dedicate time to pray throughout that week.

I'm able to do things that like I wouldn't have thought of, you know, I'm able to get like insights from my God, and he's going to tell me do this, do that, do that, and people are going to be like, how did you do that?

I'm like, I don't know.

You know, like I've come up with some crazy ideas before, and they're like, how did you do that?

How did you build this brand?

Honestly, I don't know.

But really, it's half of it is like, or most of it is, is God speaking to you and like telling you what to do, you know, and giving you the wisdom and the knowledge to be able to do what you need to get done.

And when they asked me, how do I do it?

I mean, of course, I get some wisdom to tell them.

But really, sometimes you just do it.

Yeah, it's like Nike.

Just do it.

Just swoosh.

Carry it out.

Did you feel any pressure to make a Christian brand?

To make a Christian brand?

To make your brand a Christian?

Because you grew up in ministry.

Yeah.

Honestly, it's hard because people just relate things to other things.

It's not like you're trying to be in the middle, but it's just like you're trying to get what you need to get done, done.

And sometimes for me, if I need to get it done through this strategy, he knows the end goal and he knows what you're receiving out of it and where you're putting that into.

So just based on how people react towards things, it's hard to say.

But at the end of the day, if I have a conversation with someone and they're talking to me about my brand or how we did this or how we did that, like my brother would tell you, my friend Emma will tell you that we're all Christians and through prayer and through understanding God and what he wants for us, that's how we're able to do what we need to do.

You're like, God did it.

Yeah, like God did.

I like that phrase lately.

I think that's a cool phrase because balancing the two, that's something I find interesting about you two, is that there's so much going on and particularly being in the nightlife scene, right?

And being active in that space, the party space and creating experiences for people that fit that area.

And then at the same time, balancing like your individual character and personality.

And then from that creating something that's unique, right?

That whole process is fascinating.

It's interesting, because sometimes you don't want to become a product of, like people get into business and they turn into like monsters.

They become money hungry and become a whole different person.

So sometimes you don't want to become that person.

So you just have to be able to learn to balance things, which is why it's important to have the right people around you too.

And important to be around those people, especially when you're out.

When you're out and maybe you didn't even pray before you went out.

At least you have the right people beside you to if anything goes off.

Right.

To keep you.

Yeah, because stuff happens.

Stuff goes down.

So imagine you're a college kid.

Yeah.

Because you are one, but imagine you just show up to college.

It was funny.

You made this comment earlier.

We are off mic.

You said, I have enjoyed going out and partying less because now I enjoy quality time with people and getting to know people.

And that shift is really interesting.

Yeah, I feel like before, our focus wasn't on what the next man is thinking or how the next man feels.

Our focus was just on what we want and what we want when we are going out.

But now it's just like you go out more often or like you were going out more often and you're like, maybe this is not the reason for going out.

You see people or a group of people go out and they're just chilling with themselves.

And back then, you're like, why aren't they talking to people about blah, blah, blah?

But really, they just came to spend time with their people.

So being able to grow and understand the nuance of relationships, going out is more about being able to understand the next man you see at an event.

And why are they there?

And what are they?

Are they running away from something?

Are they just trying to get a good time?

I don't know.

So being able to have those conversations with people out, and even like your friends, like you go out with them, they probably won't tell you some things at work or in class or wherever you, whatever circle you're in with them, they probably won't tell you some stuff.

But when you go out, they're like, oh man, I love you, man.

You know, I've heard that.

When they're drunk?

Yeah.

They say when you're drunk, the truth comes out, right?

It's the truth, Cyril.

Yeah.

So I have a friend, like every time we go out, he's like, I love you, man.

Aww.

But he doesn't say it when he's sober.

No, I never heard him say it when he's sober.

It's like at some point, if it only happens when you're drunk, what's going on?

That's true.

And there's also an issue with like, you don't always have to drink when you go out.

You know, the liquor is just there for people who don't have enough confidence and need liquor to like be social and all of that.

But at the end of the day, it's like, can you be straight sober and be able to have a good conversation with someone?

You have to think about that too.

You know, you don't always need the liquor to be able to do that.

There might be something wrong with you.

Right.

If you need a whole bunch of drinks to be able to talk, then now I understand that there's the buzz and alcohol is funny, right?

Because with alcohol, even different people's bodies handles it differently.

Yeah.

And seeing how one drink affects another person.

But the fascinating thing is in social situations, oftentimes people feel compelled to have alcohol because they feel like they perform better or they're just less worried about performing worse.

Like whenever we're sober and we embarrass ourselves, we think about it.

But whenever we've had a lot to drink and we mess up or we embarrass ourselves, we're much more gracious.

We're like, oh, whatever.

Yeah, I feel like that's the thing too.

It's like an escape.

And I also have my friend who he would tell me that he loves me.

I know for sure he does.

I tell him, I love you too, man.

I'm glad I met you and I let him know.

I'm usually sober when I go out.

And I can say these things, but I feel like for people, they just don't want to be worried about how much they're going to have to think about stuff if they wasn't drunk.

And also, being able to...

All the experiences are more heightened.

So you feel everything probably times ten.

And you're like, maybe this is sometimes, maybe that's what you truly feel.

When you're under the influence.

So I haven't been like, drunk in a while, so I don't know.

But maybe those are their true feelings that they're bringing out.

And for all my friends who get hammered, they know I love them.

You're speaking to them now.

We think about going out as a cultural icon.

No matter where you're at.

You could be in a rural town in Arkansas, and they'll go out to a country bar.

I think America finds any excuse to drink some beer.

Because we didn't have tailgates like that back home.

There's a soccer game.

You just go watch your game and go home.

Rather than sit in a parking lot for two hours.

And drink before you go watch the game.

And then drink at the game.

And then go to the bar after the game.

Americans will find any reason to drink.

It's funny because on one end, I'm all about it because it's bringing people together.

And it's building those relationships and creating memories and talking.

And then on the other side, it's interesting to me.

There's some interesting statistics about meeting people.

So the most popular place historically for a person to meet their spouse is one of three places, church, work or the bar.

So going out, we'll start from the top.

Typically, people would go to church, right?

Sundays, you go to church, maybe Wednesdays, depending on what denomination you may go every day.

You know, Catholics go to Catholic Mass every morning.

So you're seeing people and you're constantly exposed to people.

And then you have work and you have to work, right?

Everybody needs to pay their bills.

Most people need to go to work to make money.

And then you see your coworkers and all that stuff.

And then going to the bar.

And it's funny because the world is changing constantly every day.

And you'll see results like polls saying that church attendance is dropping.

So it'll say, organized religion has dropped this much since 2010 or something like that.

Now, I don't really know about those statistics.

I don't really know how they're gathered.

I went to a conference recently and it had like 1500 different people who were involved in church ministry.

And hearing about how much church is changing people's lives was like, okay, the church isn't dead.

But some would say that the church is definitely declining.

And then people are doing mobile work.

So they're working remotely.

So then they don't see people.

So all of these places that people can meet their spouses, they're kind of going by the wayside.

And then now people are, I mean, you can try and get on Tinder or Hinge or wherever to do it that way.

But then it's like, well, where do we meet people?

So you see people going out.

I've been on Hinge before, but I never really used it.

I don't know, the dating apps just didn't work for me.

They didn't work for you?

No, I was on there for like two weeks.

I wonder why.

Honestly, I'm more like an in-person kind of guy, you know.

But you probably had the good pictures with the jewelry.

I got some good matches, but it's just like.

Yeah, it's different.

Yeah, it just wasn't for me.

I just I don't have time to like be texted and all that.

You know, if I meet someone on the app, I'm like, okay, cool.

Let's meet up.

Let me see what you're like.

Let me see.

You know, it's all about the connection and all that.

And once you realize that you really don't have the connection, you just swiped on the person based on looks, you know.

So basically, that's what those apps are doing.

It's just like using more like how people look like.

Yeah, they are.

They hack the brain.

Yeah, because then I know with the podcast, I've been taking stills and I'll take the still.

And then I'll put it in Lightroom and I'll edit it.

And then from no, actually, I'll color grade it in Premiere Pro.

Then I'll edit it in Lightroom.

Yeah.

And then I'll post it.

So it's like all of these.

You're about to make me start looking like a model.

Right.

No, you're going to look great.

So all of these different after effects.

And then I could put that on Hinge, you know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

And then I could do it with five of my photos.

But the statistics for Tinder, there's Jeff Hall.

He's a professor at KU and he studies flirting.

And he's looked at a whole bunch of match.com data, which is really interesting.

So there's a lot of research in it.

I don't know if he did Tinder research, but I've seen.

So we did build a dating app in one of our classes, and we did research on all that.

So I think that's what also kind of messed it up for me.

Seeing the back end.

Yeah.

With Tinder, it's something crazy.

Like 5% of men get 95% of the swipes.

Yeah.

And then the other 95% of men have to deal with the other 5%.

And it's similar for women, like a similar disproportion.

The percentages are a bit different.

But overall, it's not a good way to meet somebody for the masses.

Yeah.

For a few people, it's going to be great.

You know, a few people may have.

And I know people who are listening to this, who they've met their husbands or their wives on, through like the online platforms, and they're great, like which is really cool.

But I say the whole the church is changing and work is remote.

To say that more people may feel pressured to go out or more people will be going out.

And like knowing how to navigate that nightlife scene is a skill.

Like it takes a while.

Yeah, like especially for guys who go out and like all that, people who've been doing it for a long time, it's a sport for them.

So they know what they're doing.

They know how to go and approach a woman and talk to her.

And other people who they don't do it as often or they're socially anxious, stuff like that, they're the ones who are actually even looking to have a real relationship with someone.

They're the ones who are not getting it.

But the people who are just playing and having fun are the ones who are getting all the girls.

Is they're relaxed?

Yeah, because it's fun for them and they're having a good time.

It's a sport, like you said.

So at the end of the day, it's still kind of, there's a whole nuance to the whole going out thing.

Because the people who are really looking for something are not really getting what they're out for.

Yeah, right.

Because they feel pressure and I've met people, like I'm 28 now and I know people who are my age.

And the older you get, you'll feel more pressure about, I need to find someone or I want to build a family.

Well, in order to build a family, theoretically nowadays with modern technology, you could build a family by yourself.

But you think about I want to meet somebody and marry someone to build a family.

So you get more pressure.

And then you find yourself showing up to these places just to meet someone.

And whenever you place that much pressure, I went to this event called Skip the Small Talk and it was like speed dating, but it wasn't speed dating.

Like you weren't allowed to be like dating technically.

You were supposed to have conversation.

But you could tell people were showing up to find a romantic partner.

And I can't blame them.

You know, like if you're in that position, then you want to find a romantic partner and do whatever way you want.

But then you put pressure on yourself and it's hard.

You just got to have fun.

And at the end of the day, someone's going to admire you for the fun you're having.

And that person is who you're meant to be with, you know.

I feel like people who put too much pressure on themselves to like date and all that, like you're probably not going to end up with the right person.

I like, I'll just break it to you.

Like as long as you're living your life, having fun and someone enjoys that, that's who you're meant to be with.

So, I mean, that's what I think.

Yeah, me too.

Everyone has to have an opinion.

Well, you'll hear, there's two sides of it too, because you know that is, are arranged marriages a thing in Ghana?

Depends on where you grew up.

Okay.

Because from where I'm from, Accra, it probably isn't still a big thing.

Maybe a long time ago or right now, no.

But I know in some communities, you have to marry someone that they give you to marry.

And in situations like that, they grow to love the person.

That's interesting.

But at the end of the day, they grew up knowing that they're going to meet someone.

So they're not worried about finding love.

So that's at least of their worries.

They're worried about finding other stuff.

They're worried about finding money, trying to go through this business deal or something.

There's a lot of other issues that they're going to be focused on rather than, oh, who am I going to love?

I remember in grad school, I had a friend who was from India.

And he was there for two years in the United States for an MBA.

And it was a good school.

And he spent the first year trying to get a girlfriend.

And then the second year, he was like, oh, well, my parents are going to pick me one anyways.

So it was like, if he didn't find one, he knew once he went back to India, he'd have an arranged marriage.

And his parents had already been working on it.

But he was thinking in the off chance, maybe he'll meet a woman in America and then be like, hey, I found one.

It's always better that way when you get to choose who you want.

Sometimes when you're given something like the free stuff, it doesn't always feel like if you get free food, you may not enjoy it.

You may not enjoy it as much as if you pay for that food, if you work to get that food on the table.

So that's the difference in arranged marriages.

If you prefer to find someone for yourself, then someone will give you that free beer.

That cultural significance is interesting though.

And the research with arranged marriages is also eye-opening, because some of them really enjoy it, and some of them really work out.

And you said they learn to love one another.

And there's that part of it that is telling.

But they always say you'll find your partner whenever you're not trying to find them.

True.

Whenever you're not looking.

You're just going to be chilling.

So that happened with Annie and I.

I actually left a relationship, and I left the relationship because I was feeling overwhelmed.

I was about to graduate from graduate school.

I needed to get a job.

I wanted to be a big consultant in Philadelphia and make a ton of money and build something impressive.

And then potentially I wasn't thinking about romance at all.

And in those, in that seven months of leaving that relationship because I was overwhelmed, and then getting to the point to where I was graduating, I find myself dating Annie.

And I was like, whoa, not expecting this at all.

We were just hanging out in groups.

And then we went to basketball games.

And then before we knew it, those basketball games ended up being dates.

And then the spring semester, we're exclusively dating.

So I think about that.

And I, there's, it's so cool when you reflect on that.

But an interesting part about my college experience is I never went to one bar.

Really?

In my whole undergraduate experience.

So four years, I never walked into a bar.

And initially it was because I was almost afraid of alcohol.

Like I had seen what alcohol could do to different people.

So I was like, I don't, I don't want to deal with alcohol.

But you don't, you don't have to drink to go to a bar.

Right.

I know.

And it's funny that I never, another thing was like, I guess I didn't hang out with the bar going crowd.

But it's the more that I meet other people and I reflect on that, the more I realize how unique that is.

Like I never went to a bar all four years.

Like I have a friend, he doesn't drink, but we're always out.

Yeah.

He's like just getting straight chases.

Because you can meet people.

You didn't, you didn't go through that life for a reason.

And you might not know that reason, but you know, I mean, God always has a reason for everything.

And you just have to understand and, and like, accept it.

Like it is what it is, you know?

Yeah.

And now I can just learn everything from you on the podcast.

Yeah.

Look at that.

Summarize that life for me in five minutes.

I got it.

It does make me, sometimes I'd be like, dang, I'm not as relatable because I didn't have that experience wherever I'd go out and I got drunk and I stumbled back to the dorm room and da da da da.

I was the guy who was breaking, busting people.

I was the RA.

So whenever people came in and they had alcohol, I'd be like, hey, you can't have it.

Yeah.

But I wouldn't think you were that kind of guy.

Which is funny because we categorize different people.

Like for you, you're the nightlife guy, right?

On Instagram, you have all of the cool stylistic photos with the angle and the jewelry.

But then they meet you and you are actually substantial, right?

And someone may see that and think you're a chaser and you don't have anything going on other than what's happening.

But that's not true.

Yeah.

Right?

So it's something interesting to talk about is like people are so nuanced.

And when you build relationships and you talk to different people, if we can prevent ourselves from boxing people in so quickly, it's going to be helpful for us.

Yeah.

And that's one of the greatest things about going out and meeting people is they're so different.

Yeah.

Like for me, I never try to like jump to conclusions about people because I feel like everyone is going through their own thing, their own problems.

So meeting people, I never jump to conclusions.

They might be going through something that's funny and it's funny.

You're not using that suggestion though.

So it's just like understanding that everyone in this world has their own thing that they're going through.

And you don't have to judge them based on that.

Whenever you were coming on the podcast, I know you're like, oh, bro, your podcast is different because sometimes it's deep.

You have some deep stuff going on.

I'm just like, I'm just a fun guy.

So do you feel pressure sometimes to be the fun guy?

I don't think so.

You know, we were talking about things coming naturally to you.

So at the end of the day, like if this is who you are, you know, sometimes you it's natural to have pressure.

But if it's who you are, you just have to be yourself and flow and all that.

You try to be someone you're not.

That's when you're really hard on yourself.

And like, no, you're not that person.

Just be who you are.

You know, so in graduate school, I went to my first bar.

And I still wasn't drinking.

But I would find myself in these deep conversations.

At the bar.

At the bar.

So there's all these people walking around talking.

And you know how sometimes bar conversations are.

Either they get straight to the point or very, they call it phatic, P-H-A-T-I-C, small talk, non-substantial.

But I'd find myself in these conversations really deep.

And I recognize that that's me.

I'm fascinated by people.

I'm fascinated by the stories and I want to hear them.

So I'd find myself doing that.

So even whenever I did go to bars, I was talking, you know.

You find out who you really are.

Right.

You find out who you really are.

You know, it's all about being when you're around people, you really get to understand how they see you and understand, you know, how you reflect on other people and how you relate with other people.

So and it's all about like strategy and how you go talk to someone or how someone approaches you, you know.

So it's like, let's say, you know, two people are going out.

They're going out to meet some girls or something.

And one guy goes talks, tries to talk to the girl, but uses a different approach and it doesn't work.

And another guy go uses a different approach.

And it works out for the person.

It's all about, like, how you relate with people and how you approach people.

It's just like, you know, you can relate everything in business to life.

You know, it's just like business, you know, business.

Yeah, right.

You can.

How how do you put your price or how?

You know, businesses are made of people.

So what would you say to someone if they said, how do I approach a woman?

Oh, that's interesting.

First advice is, always be yourself, you know?

Like, you would think that every girl wants like this type of guy and all of that, blah, blah, blah.

But sometimes you will see the most beautiful woman with the most regular guys, you know?

So, it's really the first step is being yourself and being relatable.

I'm taking notes.

This is how I got Annie.

That was definitely how I got Annie, for sure.

And you have to be able to like, see their vibes.

And like, for example, you could tell a woman based on what she's drinking.

Say more.

She used to say more.

It would have given me trouble, man.

So, for example, I'm not trying to like, you know, stereotype any type of woman, but let's say they're drinking a vodka soda.

Vodka sodas are not sweet.

Right.

At least to me.

So you could tell based on, oh, that's Sunny.

He low key.

It looks like his face has been placed on the.

Oh, yeah.

So based on what they're drinking, you could tell what type of vibes they're on.

Like, based on some woman drinking Moscato, some women drink red wine, white wine.

You could just tell.

And usually women who go for wine tend to be more like bougie than the other women who don't drink wine.

And even when you get into that, the wine industry, there are women who drink red wine who are different from women who drink white wine.

There's a lot of nuance here.

There's a lot of nuance when you're out, based on what they're drinking.

And one thing to do is not judge them based on also how they're dressed up.

Because some girls can be dressed up and show a little, you know, and you would think, oh, they're like, you know, they're like this type of person, that type of person.

But really, maybe they're dressed up like that because they just like how they look, you know, but that's not how they are.

So it's a lot.

We have to do a whole class on that.

What do you say?

So based on everything you take into account, then that's when you know what words to use to approach them.

You go in, that's the funny guy.

You go in as a smart guy.

You go in as the money man.

You know, there's a lot of different ways to go in.

If you got your khaki shorts on, you definitely have to go in as the money man.

You're playing the part.

You got to fulfill it.

I've heard of this.

Have you heard of the push and pull concept?

You may have heard of it in a different phrasing, but it's this idea of you give a compliment, but then you also make them laugh.

And it's both ways, men, women, women, men, whatever.

But it's the kind of like a foundation of flirting because whenever you tell people a whole bunch of compliments, it gets a little uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Oh, you have beautiful eyes and your hair looks great and what a dress, right?

Yeah, they don't like that stuff.

But being able to make people laugh and then maybe in between there, you could say something that's nice and then go on.

And so that's fascinating to me.

Maybe some people like that, but the woman that I meet too, she doesn't like that stuff.

So it's just like you have to be able to balance an interesting conversation at the same time, and compliment them at the same time.

You get what I'm saying?

So I seen a meme today.

And Pete Davidson, he used to date Kim.

Now he's got a new girl and she's good looking.

And so I see the meme and they're like, what does this guy have that we don't know?

It's probably because he's funny.

They say when you make people laugh, they close their eyes.

So he has people laughing so much that they never even see what he looks like.

Yeah.

Right.

So it's, yeah, as you said, humor and like humor plays a big part in talking to someone and like conversating with someone.

So being the funny guy allows you to get more girls than being the serious guy you want to go like, Oh, hey, what's your name?

You look good.

She's just like, she probably heard this from other guys the whole night.

Like, what's different about you?

So you ought to bring the X factor to the game.

Bring it to the table.

And that's when you have a fighting chance.

That's the class name right there.

How to develop the X factor, how to bring it, life, nightlife, one-on-one, right?

You could teach it.

I'll help you record it.

That way you can get it up there.

Get a little class.

You've mentioned one thing and I wanted to ask about it because sometimes I'll feel similar.

You mentioned how you have a lot of people around you, but sometimes it's hard to get like deep friendship.

Yeah.

It's so I seen I seen a couple of things today that reminded me of that.

Like I was telling you about your wedding photos.

I was like, you know, I don't know what it would be like when I'm getting married.

You know, like you don't know if you're going to have everyone who's hanging out with you today on your wedding day or like, you know, when you're all like, you know, when it's time to actually settle down and all that, you don't know.

So like, I don't think I have as many friends as I did two, three years ago.

You know, right now, I probably, I could probably count the friends I have on my hand.

So it's interesting.

And you get to realize how people are friends with you because of a particular reason.

You know, some people want to be friends with you just because you have a podcast, you know, and just because they feel like you're cool because you have a podcast.

Like, I know Chris, Chris, you got that, blah, blah, blah, you know.

So when you get to realize those things, and like, for example, like, you probably don't do the podcast anymore, you don't go out anymore.

You get to realize the amount of friends you had before, you know, the numbers are getting lowered, you know.

So identifying who is really there for you is, it's hard, and it's hard to navigate.

But at the end of the day, you get to find out who these people are when you're in need.

That's how you figure it out.

When they're there for you when you're in need, you know, when you're down bad, those moments, that's when you realize who is really there for you.

So I feel like that's how you navigate that.

But yeah, yeah, it's a response to the stereotype of nightlife is that you go out with a ton of people.

Yeah, you pull over the whole squad, a whole squad that the next day at 2 p.m.

if someone were like, Oh, hey, could you tell me a little bit more about that person?

You're like, Oh, yeah, a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't know.

And having that broad net looks cool.

And you get to tag everybody on Instagram and you get to show up to different events because different people invite you.

But then when you look at the Harvard Happiness Study or when you look at these, a lot of the stuff I'm reading right now, which I could link, but essentially read the book together by the Surgeon General, it says it's not the quantity of relationships or it's not even how long you hang out, but it's always the quality.

So with that in mind, it is something good to think about, particularly whenever we're being pressured to hang out, not like go out and do all this with all this people.

At the end of the day, whenever you turn, however old, if you have a whole bunch of deep relationships, when you're older, you're more likely to live longer, experience less pain, you're less vulnerable to cardiovascular disease, you'll experience less inflammation, you're less likely to develop dementia, less anxiety, less stress.

So that, but I feel you, because sometimes I feel the same way.

Like I have all these people, but how many people of them are deep?

So like you and I, that's something that we individually have to do is be on ourselves.

Like, you know, maybe committing to another thing in the long run isn't actually going to help.

Maybe I just need to develop what I have.

Right.

And we have to bounce that because that's one of our strengths is going to new things, because we have all of this stuff and it looks cool.

But it's like, yeah, I get even for like, like the whole brand, like Alpha Gang and all that, like the people that we're with is the people that we've been with, you know, for a while.

And, you know, it's even hard to like outside business or whatever.

It's hard to even bring people into the friend group, you know, because it's just like, like, why are you trying to be this?

Why are you trying to be friends?

Like, are you really trying to be friends or are you trying to, you know?

So a human beings are weird.

That's why we're here.

Human beings are weird.

So that's what we talk about all day is I'm weird in my own way.

Yeah, you're super weird.

Yeah, the power of that.

The final question I ask every guest, you ready?

Yeah.

If there was a billboard and it's going to be seen by millions of people, what would you have it say and why?

I should have figured out my answer for this question because I seen the other episodes.

What message would I want to tell people?

I will want to tell people that, you know, life is amazing.

You can just live it, you know, that because you only have one life, you know, like once this life is over, like that's it, you know.

I don't want to say, like, you don't know where you're going after this.

Like hope, the hope is to, you know, go to heaven.

But at the end of the day, like, this is that one life you have, you know, live it right and live it for your maker and do what's right and do what really, really makes you happy.

Like if you're in a situation where, you know, it doesn't make you happy, you got to walk out, you know, you have to walk out because you're not going to get a second chance.

I mean, some people do, but it's really just one life.

So, yeah, do what makes you happy, live your life, have fun and yeah, make sure you're always having fun.

Well said.

Well, thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Check out the Cruise Line Podcast.

It's been a lot of fun seeing you two create.

Podcast prodigy.

We're happy to have you in the podcast space.