#56 - What You Learn About Communication After Speaking to 200,000 People [JASON RAITZ]

Welcome to the Talk to People Podcast.

My name is Chris Miller, and today is a virtual conversation featuring Jason Raitz.

Jason has spoken with over 200,000 people on over 500 different stages.

He is a business leader, he used to be a pastor, he knows a ton about communication and why it matters.

Specifically, this conversation was really important to this podcast, because the whole podcast is about improving your life through better conversations, relationships and community, and showing you that life is better when you talk to people.

If you've never been here before, I am glad you're here.

If you are a returning listener, well, hey, we are figuring out this virtual episode format.

It's been fun talking to a computer screen, specifically whenever there's fun people there to talk to.

And Jason is a good example of that.

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So without further ado, let me welcome Jason Raitz to the podcast, and I'm going to hop into the virtual studio.

All right.

We are officially live, the virtual studio, the Talk to People Podcast.

Jason Raitz, welcome to the podcast.

Before I even let you talk, I have to say you've spoken to over 200,000 people on over 500 different stages.

Now with all of that in mind, what is the one key everybody needs to know to no longer be afraid of public speaking?

Oh, wow.

Well, the one key I would give them is, don't make the mistake I did.

For 10 years, I concentrated on myself.

Will people like me?

Do I know my material?

Are they going to laugh?

Are my slides awesome?

Is this going to be the best talk?

And I put all the emphasis on me, and I lost out because that just made me more tense, brought up the fear more.

When I flipped it and I became audience-obsessed, and I concentrated on their success, what problems are they facing?

What solutions can we offer?

Everything kind of fell into place.

And I think when you get to that place, you can then be the real you in front of people.

Because right, the goal as a public speaker, we want to be able to get up on stage, whether it's 10 people or 10,000, and just have a conversation with them where they each feel like I'm having a conversation with them.

I think when you're so audience-obsessed, you're able to do that because people sense it.

They sense your empathy for them, your compassion, and how you want them to win.

So don't make the mistake I did.

Ten years, my head was the size of at least a Ford Escort.

I'm really aging myself there because Escort hasn't been out in a long time.

How did you make that switch going from you like, I need to make sure I talk loud enough and talk at a good pace, and then transitioning all of that care to the audience?

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

And I struggled for years because I was a fast talker.

I was a pacer, right?

Like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

And so I used to actually do physical copy of notes.

And so on the top corner, I used to write the thing that I was working on that time, you know?

Don't say, stop pacing, take your hand out of your pocket, slow down.

So for me, really, and I don't want other people to go through this, but for me, it was failure.

You know, I had a couple of speaking engagements, bomb, bomb, just complete bomb.

And one of them was one that I had dreamt of getting for years.

Like a few thousand high school students at this Picture Perfect Camp and Retreat Center.

I just dreamt of it for years.

I brought all my best illustrations.

I had props.

I had great slides.

And yeah, again, I was so concentrated on myself and it just bombed and it hit the worst ever because the program person up in the sound booth, I had gone over time and I didn't realize it.

I missed the confidence monitor, all that stuff, and she's flashing a light.

And I'm like, Oh, I just I just ruined it.

They'll never invite me back.

All these people are going to tell all their people how awful Jason Raitz is.

And so for me, that was kind of the breaking point.

I got to the low part, the valley.

Now, it wasn't as bad as I thought, they still loved it, all of that kind of stuff.

But I had to get to that breaking, where I got my pride out of the way, and I had to move on through there.

So that really helped me.

I think the other thing that really helped me was just I was always obsessed, maybe, about asking speakers who I felt were six steps further than me for their thoughts on my talk.

So I think some of it was prideful, again, back to that pride issue, but prideful because I wanted speakers that I admired to listen to me speak.

And so part of my thought process was, oh, boy, if I could get them to listen, give me some critique, but then it plants a seed in their head, like, oh, Jason Raitz.

Maybe if I can't do a gig, they'll pass it on, I'll pass it on to Jason.

And so, you know, very quickly, you know, you've got to develop thick skin.

If you're a public speaker anyways, you have to have thick skin.

You know, I was just, sorry, a little rabbit trail.

I was just coaching someone actually earlier today, and I said, this person speaks every single week to people, actually in a church.

So kind of a faith-based deal.

But for the reality, though, is 80 to 90% of the people that this person speaks to week in, week out, they will never get up in front and speak in the same context.

And so the reality as a speaker is you're speaking to this audience who some of them are going to give you critique and feedback, and some of it's really good, and we've got to learn from it.

But then some of it comes from maybe a not so emotionally intelligence-based place, and from a place where they have no experience.

They'll never know what it's like getting up in front of 10, 50, 500.

They won't know what it's like to have your microphone feedback or the slides not to work.

So you've got to learn how to develop that thick skin, use that.

So I think between asking for the critique and then getting, failing and then asking for the critique, those are two things that really kind of help to ground me, help me get to a place where it turned the tide, where I was less Jason-focused and more audience-focused.

Just make sure I was obsessed about their needs.

Even now, I'll be speaking for a bank in two weeks.

So I'll be doing a training and it will be virtually.

So just be like this.

So I'm not even with the people, but they'll all be on their computers in their respective offices and all of that kind of stuff.

But I have to have, I've already scheduled a call with the area VP who oversees all of these people because I want to get inside of the audience.

I want to know how many millennials are we talking about?

How many Gen X?

How many, are there any baby boomers working for you?

You know, are people longevity wise?

So I can kind of get inside the audience so I know, okay, if it's primarily Gen X, I'm going to do okay because I talk Gen X.

But if it's millennials, okay, I've got to make sure I'm getting into the mind of a millennial during this training.

So I love that.

One of my favorite things to do is when I am talking at an event, if I can try and talk to the audience beforehand, and it may be in the smallest thing, like you're about to come up, you're like, hey, how's it going?

How are you doing?

Because I feel like that same exact thing whenever we get on stage, we forget that the people who are sitting in the audience are, one, human just like us, but two, they are thinking their own things.

They may not even be able to pay attention to you because of something that just happened.

Absolutely.

At home, at work, they may be like, this guy's got a blue zip-up on.

That makes me think of my ex-boyfriend who has a blue zip-up on, and all this external noise.

One of my favorite things to do is if possible, especially in church, at churches, I see a lot of pastors do this.

They'll talk to people beforehand, and then they'll hang out after, and it's like developing that connection.

Yes.

It's a blast.

I was in Alabama a couple months ago speaking to some financial advisors, and I just walked around.

For the most part, I'll knew each other.

And so if you're insanely introverted, and I am probably 30 percent introvert, 70 percent extrovert, I think those numbers have flipped.

I think in my 20s, I was much more extroverted than I am introverted.

And I think over time, life happens.

Now I'm like, I love my solitude, my alone time.

But I have to force myself.

And so I do just what you talked about.

I love that because you're able then to establish maybe a couple of kind eyes, because there's a couple of people who will go, I just talked about baseball with that guy.

I'm going to pay attention.

So that same event, there was only about 35, 40 financial advisors in the room.

And it's really clear.

For the most part of these trainings, they're learning about selling financial services, annuities, all that kind of stuff.

And then I come up and one of the partner organizations hires me from Speak With People to teach communication skills, because financial advisors, bankers, they're in a people business.

So they've got to have good communication skills.

And so two of the guys, I actually physically caught them rolling their eyes as I was introduced.

And we talked about the topic and these guys were like secure enough in their, in their whatever, whatever it is.

They didn't care at all.

They didn't feel bad.

They're just like, ah, here we go with the mushy stuff.

How do you, how do you deal with that?

Because I know whenever I was in school, I was studying communication and my dad, who is a house painter, he 40 years was, did a house painting business.

Like essentially whenever I was a, well, whenever my older sisters were babies, like he was contracting his own homes.

And so whenever I tell him I'm doing communication, he's like, okay, right?

Like I don't think there are any communication factories out there.

And then you go to grad school for that.

So how do you articulate the significance of why it's so important to invest in communication?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's so important, right?

We all communicate.

I mean, I'm trying to remember who said it.

John Ramos, I'm trying to remember his name.

But Arthur, he talked about how for most people, we communicate two-thirds of our lives.

I mean, for the most part, if we're awake, we're communicating in some way or another.

And I think the blast is, for most people, they think this is the only way that communication is happening, right?

I'm saying I'm speaking words to you, you're speaking words to me.

I mean, most research states that's only about 8% of communication.

Our words are only 8%.

You know, 38%, 35 to 38% is just our body language.

You know, how we say it when we say it.

And then the rest is tone, right?

You know, I mean, that's the amazing thing.

And so how do we get people to understand how important it is to improve their communication skills?

Well, Harvard Business Review has some research and studies that shows, you know, most often people who are promoted the most, receive the best raises, tapped for more leadership, most of the time it's because of their communication skills.

And so for some leaders, you know, okay, that gives them the reason in order to do that.

For folks like my father-in-law who, you know, he worked on a line for GM for 38 years, and he bought an old retired farm in the middle of nowhere, so he didn't have to talk to anybody but his wife.

And even with that, he barely says probably, you know, 20 words to her.

You know, for him, I've had, you know, from a person in that standpoint, I think you go around, you know, a little different way, because at the end of the day, if you improve your communication skills, you really do improve your relationships.

And so if you can help them understand, hey, with just a little bit of investment, we're not talking about changing everything.

We're not talking about you having a two-hour conversation.

We're just talking about, hey, maybe, instead of having a conversation with your spouse with your arms crossed and your eyebrows furled, instead of doing that, just open up your arms and smile as they're talking to you and listen.

Oh, my goodness.

The change that will happen almost immediately in that relationship, unless they have a cynical spouse and they're like, why are you paying attention to me now?

But trying to just get to the heart.

Because I really do think you improve your communication skills, you really can exponentially improve your life, whether it's your relationships, your marriage, your friendships, and then your business skills, you know, your sales, you're able to close, you're able to cast vision, your team building skills.

I mean, it really does change everything.

And I often find myself reflecting on all of that and the enormity of how much it is.

And like you said, with relationships, I know a lot of the stuff I've been reading is talking about just the importance of social connection and how much having social support and having the substantial relationships in your life will elevate everything else.

So I find myself writing this newsletter, and it's all have better conversations, relationships and community.

And I'm like, everybody would benefit from this, but then it's so hard to get people to subscribe.

So it's like crossing that gap and trying to figure out how to articulate the outcome that would lead people to put their email into.

Yes, and not to be cynical or sarcastic, but if your title said something like, make more money with better communication, they might subscribe.

But just being able to improve my communication skills so I can speak hope into people, that's not going to really grab their attention.

Yeah, that process has been kind of weird to me, and I think you're right.

I was listening to one person, and they looked at their podcast analytics, and any title where they said, here's how to get rich, performed way better than here's how to grow in wealth.

Yep.

Yeah, with Speak With People, so much of why we exist is we really want to help leaders improve their communication skills, so in turn, they can expand their influence.

Because as a leader, going back to John Maxwell, who's written 900 leadership books, all the stuff from 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership and all that, he defines leadership as influence.

So people push back against me all the time.

You don't understand, Jason, I'm not a leader.

I'm like, okay, well, if you have influence, you volunteer at your kid's school, okay, you have influence.

You work on a team of people who come to you for answers.

You have influence.

All right, if you have influence, that influence can grow through your communication.

So the better that you communicate, I do a lot of speaking for banks, and so I train financial advisors, licensed bankers.

And so I like to use the phrase, your communication is currency.

And it's really up to you how you spend that currency.

Do you spend it in a healthy way?

Do you spend it in an unhealthy way?

And for me, that's kind of where the speak with or speak at philosophy came from.

So we say when you choose to speak with people, you're choosing healthy communication.

You're breathing life into them.

You're filling them up.

You're giving them hope.

You're doing that kind of thing.

When you speak at people, you're choosing unhealthy communication.

You're sucking the life out of people.

And you can see the difference immediately between the two.

I mean, it's pretty outstanding.

So, to be able to do that.

And I love the conversations that you're having on this podcast, because even when you were on Speak With People, great episode.

I love what you're doing because I think the world is going...

I mean, it's a no-duck kind of statement, but we're so addicted to these.

We spend so much time in our devices that, especially with AI and now watching people wear their...

I don't even know what they're called.

They're apple goggles or apple pods or whatever they're called.

They're wearing them everywhere.

I'm like, okay.

At the end of the day, we're relational beings.

We were created to be in the community.

I mean, communication in the Latin is actually to share.

So often we think communication is just information.

I'm going to tell you what you need to hear.

I'm going to tell you, and then you, no, no, communication is about the sharing process.

And we've got to be in connection with people.

We've got to be in a relationship.

Back to Maxwell, he wrote a great book, Everyone Communicates, Few Connect.

And I'm like, a hundred percent, I've read that book cover to cover because I'm like, this is absolutely true.

We all communicate all day long.

We're talking, we're yapping, we're communicating with our tone.

Those of your listeners who have teenage kids, I have young adult kids and I have one teenage kid, they communicate a lot through their tone.

They communicate a lot through their body language.

We're still communicating.

We still have to learn how to communicate and do that in relationship with each other.

And so why not learn how to really connect with your communication?

Can we talk about out of all of the careers you could have, you are dedicating your career to helping others bring out the communication in their life.

Why is that?

I watched the YouTube video about the value of stories that you posted and that concert you went to, and I got a little of the origin story, but I don't think the people listening, I don't think they had the opportunity to watch that.

So they can watch it after this, but why this?

Yeah.

Oh, goodness, that's so good.

Well, just to kind of give your listeners a piece of the story.

When I was 10 years old, my parents took me to a rock concert.

It was awesome.

We kind of pushed it to the front row, and it was kind of a real heavy rock band.

I was kind of going, what is happening right here?

And then I just loved it.

And at the end, the lead singer, the lead singers were a husband and a wife.

And I think it was also, I really enjoyed their music too, because I do remember all these years later that the lead singer's wife, Wendy is her name, she did have black leather pants on.

So as I look back, I'm like, okay, maybe that's why I was so interested.

So dialed in.

Yeah, why am I so dialed into this?

Oh, okay.

But at the very end, he kind of shared his story.

Everybody's quiet in the room.

And at 10 years old, I can just remember looking around that room, just seconds earlier.

Everything is as loud as can be.

Everybody's jumping up and down, sweating, arms going.

And then he starts talking about his story and the depths of the low moments and the height of the mountaintopic moments.

And I can remember being 10 years old looking around going, Oh my goodness, every single person is hanging on every single word this guy is saying.

And most of my life, I would put myself in kind of a non-smart category.

You know, I scored my age on the ACT.

You know, what's that one joke?

I can't remember what the famous TV show is, but they talked about the guy got like a, you know, 200 on the ACT.

And his friends like, well, you get a 300 if you just write your name.

You know, English, math, these were these were a giant struggle for me.

I got through high school.

I probably ended with like a 3-3.

College was a bit of a struggle.

Later in life, I went back and worked on an MBA as an adult.

And things were a little bit easier because I had, you know, more wisdom and life behind me.

But some of that intellectual thought, like I remember sitting in philosophy class or logic class going, what in the world is happening right now?

It wasn't until the teacher needed somebody to stand up front and talk, or we were in groups.

You know, I can remember being in college, and we had to break it up into groups.

And somebody, the teacher said, okay, you need a spokesperson.

And somebody pushed me up front.

Anytime I got to be up front, it was like I felt alive.

I was like, okay, I have this opportunity.

And for me, that opportunity, my family, we've just, you know, everybody's experienced pain.

We've all been through it.

We've lost people we've loved.

We've, you know, through a series of like some really rough moments, I just really felt even early on that maybe the way I can give back to the world and my gift was through encouragement, was through story, was through providing hope.

You know, I'm not, I'm probably not going to ever, and maybe I'm selling myself too short here.

So I also recognize that I'm trying to do a much better job with self-worth.

Thanks Mel Robbins and her high five yourself in the morning.

I saw that for the first time, and I'm like, that's the lamest thing.

I'm never doing that.

And now I find myself looking in the mirror going, all right, it's going to be a great day.

You got this.

So I never want to sell myself short, but I can remember being 12 years old and standing up in front of 100 people and getting them to laugh and going, okay, I think that's why I created.

I mean, Dream World, if things were different, I could start all over.

I'd probably be a comedian.

I'd love to be a comedian who told stories about life.

Actually, last year, I tried out virtually for America's Got Talent.

And so it was a riot, hundreds of people in the Zoom waiting room.

And I'm not a joke guy.

I just have stories that have funny moments.

And so when they asked, what's your act, I said, hopeful storyteller.

Wow.

And everybody was laughing.

The producer was laughing.

You could see the different faces laugh.

I didn't get the call back.

But part of me down deep is like, should I try it again?

Because I love that.

I love the opportunity to either inspire people, encourage them, help them laugh.

I don't want to make them laugh.

I want to help them laugh.

Because laughter does such amazing things in your life.

I mean, it breaks down the walls.

You're able to just experience that joy for a minute.

So I think for me, it goes all the way back to 10 years old, seeing that aha moment, and then going, wow, I really want to help.

I want to be able to speak to people in a way that leaves a mark like that did.

And now at this phase with Speak With People, I love coaching leaders be able to do that.

I don't have to be on every stage.

I don't have to be on every video.

In fact, I love it even more when my clients or the students in our course or those people that we're training succeed.

There's just nothing better.

So that's a little bit of a ramble, but kind of got to it about the story of communication there.

No, it makes sense.

And would you ever consider doing an open mic near you?

I have done a couple.

I have done a couple.

And the first one went terribly, terribly bad.

Terribly bad.

Five minutes, you know, you think I could get up and, you know, I could be fine.

It's difficult.

Now for me, I have maybe not so much lately, but my brain still kind of thinks 13-year-old boy, I'm a great lover of The Office.

So for years, everything was that that's what she said comment.

Everything.

All day long.

I've gone pretty good now.

I think I'm, you know, I don't think I've said one, a good one, for a while.

But my level of humor, and I'm not trying to like point fingers or look down on people, the level of dirty, dirty humor in this five-minute open mic, I just wasn't ready for.

I'm like, Oh, my goodness.

I didn't even know you could put those things together.

Those things together.

I'm like, Yeah.

Where did that come from?

So yes, I do want to try it again.

And, you know, I love it.

I want to be able to do that.

I mean, just two weeks ago, I'm in Peoria, Illinois, speaking at a middle school assembly.

And sometimes people ask, like, what are some things I could do to really sharpen up my speaking?

And I'm like, go, go speak to 600 millscores, because you'll find out quick if you can captivate an audience, because they're going to, you know, and I don't have any of the awesome things going for me, right?

I don't look like Ryan Gosling, maybe Ryan Reynolds, you know, maybe older Ryan Reynolds.

I'm not doing skateboard tricks.

You know, I'm not an illusionist.

I just have stories.

So I have to, I have to captivate them quickly with a story.

And I always start off, I have an assembly called the Words Matter Assembly, and we dive into the power of your words and how to use them and all that.

And I start with the story about my best friend in middle school, and I used to spend time at his house, and one time he and I were upstairs in his bedroom playing video games.

And, you know, Mario Brothers is all the rage again.

So this is when Mario Brothers first came out.

So I sing the song and the whole place is singing with me.

And I talk about how we heard his mom scream and come running downstairs, and she's ripping apart their vacuum.

And we're like, OK, this is odd.

Well, then I back up the story, and I talk about how I loved going to my best friend's house because his mom made the best French toast.

And then I say things like the Frenchiness of her toast was great and everybody giggles, you know.

And then I talked about how they have a bird that was in a bird cage in the dining room, and it would make these horrible noises.

And one day, his mom decided to clean out the bird cage, and she got real smart.

And so instead of just pulling out the tray and dumping it, since she was already vacuuming, she took out the hose, and she very carefully put the hose in the cage just to clean it out.

Well, at this point, the bird is, you know, pretty shocked.

Why are you doing this?

This looks like danger.

And then I talk about how the phone rang.

And in 1989, the phone was still attached to a cord that was attached to the wall.

We have this mind-blown moment.

It's really funny with all the kids.

And I talk about how the phone rang, and she tried to do both.

And just as she got her hands on the phone, the hose of the vacuum tilted up, and it sucked in chippy.

And people lose it.

You know, I tell the story.

I'm not giving you the full justice here, because I'm sort of walking you through it.

But I tell the story to adults.

I tell the story to students.

I mean, they're just laughing like crazy.

Then I talk about how she screamed.

She's ripping open the vacuum.

Chippy's alive.

She pulls him out, but he's covered in vacuum stuff.

And she takes him to the sink and turns on the waterfall blast, and now he's kind of freaking out.

She gets the blow dryer, and now he's got a bird fro.

He's still wet, so she runs over to the kitchen and puts him in the microwave.

Boop, boop.

And everyone's like, no.

You got to be careful with middle school students, right?

Because very concrete.

But I start with that whole story, because they're laughing with me through it.

I'm painting the picture of my childhood, so they're kind of seeing part of their childhood.

They have the best friend moment.

Right before I take the microphone, the principal introduces me.

I walk up to dive into that story, because I got to get them quick.

There's a sixth grade boy in the front row who puts without the help of his hands, puts both feet behind his head.

Oh my gosh.

Like just boom.

And I have a 10-year-old son.

We adopted him from China.

And, you know, squatting is a real thing in Asian culture.

Like we went to China, lots of squatting.

They have squatty potties.

Like our son is very flexible.

I've watched him a million times, but put the feet behind his head.

And how is any speaker supposed to keep up with a student in the front row that doesn't even use his hands?

He just put his feet out there and put him behind his head.

It was a fascinating moment.

So I'm like, okay, I got to be able to do it.

So when I tell that story, I tell those stories.

I love bringing the story to life.

I always have a key transition moment.

The story always ties in with my big idea.

I just don't tell a story to tell a story.

There's a reason behind it.

But yeah, I love that opportunity.

And so yeah, I probably will do more open mics and figure that out.

Yeah, I've heard that it's the most terrifying thing.

Like five minutes turns into an hour.

Oh yeah.

Especially like you said, when it's not going well.

And 99% of the time, if you're trying an open mic, it won't go well because you are not used to doing an open mic.

And even whenever you're funny with your friends or your family, like it's different.

Yep.

Absolutely.

It's so funny.

I was speaking at a youth group before our church, and the youth pastor was like, Yeah, come on.

We'd love for you to talk.

So I give this talk.

That's like you are God's favorite.

And the premise was, let's talk like, let's look at your favorites.

Like, what's your favorite?

Think about whenever you're going on a road trip and you get that favorite road trip snack.

Is it the Sour Patch Watermelons or the pizza flavored combos?

And going through and having the students walk through this process of picking out all their favorites and then walking through different verses, talking about how God sees you that way.

And it's no longer a question of, like, you were them, but you, and you were made with that thing in mind.

But I did this thing.

It was like a recall thing.

Every time I say blank, you say, yeah.

And it was like, every time I say favorite, say, yeah.

And I did it once, and they said, yeah.

And then after that, I lost the crowd.

For the next 12, 15 minutes, there's these kids in the crowd who were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And I, at first, I'm like, yeah, I didn't say favorite, though, you know, or like, uh-huh, I get it, I get it.

And then after a while, it was like, I'm just going to have to steamroll.

So I just kept talking and talking.

And, you know, the leaders of the youth group were like giving them dirty looks, and you even had students who were like, shh, like, shush-a-num and stuff.

But I remember leaving that, leaving the stage, and even though I know, like, more than likely, I mean, the kid is, I don't know, has a ton of energy, wants attention, like, all these different things, I still felt like, dang, I lost that.

That was not a W in the, like, records book.

And the pastor being like, hey, you know, I'm sorry, like, you did so good.

But it's really easy to get rattled, and I think there's people who are so gifted, like you, in learning how to actually connect with middle schoolers.

And I think you could use a lot of those principles in, like, the board room and business meetings, because I know, yeah, you also talk with a lot of leaders.

So what are some of the biggest things that you see across the board when it comes to business leaders who are crushing it?

What about their communication sticks out to you?

That's a great question.

I think good communicators are really good listeners.

And not just listening so I can prepare my rebuttal, but listening to the level and the degree that I'm trying to tap into some empathy and compassion to know where you're coming from.

Sorry for the shameless plug.

I just had two great authors on the Speak With People Podcast.

And they wrote a book called Adaptive Listening.

They said, you know, active listening is great, but you really need to adapt when you listen because every leader has a different listening style.

And so they created this thing called the said listening style, SAID.

And they walk leaders through.

It's important for you to know how you listen, and it's important for you to know how the people you work with listen.

And so I think the leaders who are really crushing it with communication, who are being heard, who people want to follow them, who people are listening to them, are the leaders who are just doing everything they can to become great listeners.

And they're listening from every perspective, before they're just kind of barking out answers.

So I think, for me, I think that's a huge part of it.

I also think leaders who care for their inner world, we talk about this with or at philosophy with Speak With People.

Speak with people, not at them.

We translate that into a couple of different areas.

Lead with people, not at them as well.

Because in leadership, a lot of times we see leaders who lead out of fear and control, and they get people to do what they want, right?

But it's through this force.

And I think there's a healthy amount of force.

I mean, you watch a football practice, right?

And you're like, wow, those guys are just screaming the entire time, like, holy cow.

But that sort of translates into the business world at times, where the only way a boss can get his team to listen is if he uses force.

Now, case in point, I'm doing a teacher training for a school two weeks ago, elementary school teachers, and it's at seven in the morning before school starts.

I'm going through my healthy communication skills training.

We get to the part where I'm going through the toxic communication habits.

So these are the speaking at habits.

These are the things that are toxic, that are building up a wall, that are pushing people away for your communication.

And the only way you're being heard is through force and fear at that point.

So I'm going through this whole list.

Things like you don't assess your health, you don't have a plan to take care of yourself, you don't value empathy, your talk is manipulative, your words are manipulative.

And I'm going through this whole list.

There's 15 of them and are speaking at habits, unhealthy, toxic habits.

And at one point, the principal stands up and she goes, this is what I'm talking about.

All of you, you continually speak at me.

I mean, she's just frustrated.

And on cue, she gets a little walkie talkie thing and she has to leave the room.

And as she leaves the room, the door shuts, and there's a teacher up in the front that says this sarcastic comment about the principal.

And I'm like, oh boy, this could go bad really quickly.

So I'm like, let's zip this around.

But leaders who actually take great care of their inner world, their emotional health, their mental health, we think of health sometimes and we're just purely focused on the physical.

Yes, physical is super important, but we got to spend as much time on our emotional health.

How's your emotional intelligence?

Are your feelings in check?

Are you able to control your anger?

How's your patience level?

Your mental, how's your anxiety?

Those kind of things.

And so leaders, I think, are crushing it if their inner world is healthy and they're taking the steps to be healthy when it comes to that.

And then I think, I'll just give one other one.

I just think leaders who show great patience in their communication.

Because so often, leaders, we know what we want to say, right?

We're confident, we know how to command a room.

After speaking for however many times I have, even if I'm not prepared at all, I can still walk up to a stage and wing it to the point where I think probably the average person doesn't know I'm winging it.

Now, somebody who studies communication, they're probably going to catch on pretty quick, but I can pull enough stuff out of my magic bag of communication and kind of make it work.

But the reality is, we can't live that way.

We've got to be able to be prepared.

We've got to be able to go that way.

And we've got to be able to have that patience.

And one of the best definitions I've ever heard about the word patience is it takes a long time to boil.

Takes a long time to boil.

And I'm like, ooh.

Another definition I heard was the capacity to be wronged and not retaliate.

Capacity to be wronged and not retaliate.

I'm like, wow, these are...

So in our communication, instead of lashing out quickly, instead of sharing my ideas, interrupting, talking over them, no, I'm listening.

I'm processing it.

I'm running them through my empathy filters, putting together a game plan.

And then if there's something that I don't understand, I'm now asking really great questions.

Because if I can ask them really great questions to get to the heart, because I think we talk about this all the time in our workshop, one of the things when you speak at people, if you have to continually say, does that make sense?

Does that make sense?

Do you understand what I'm saying?

If you have to keep saying that, then you're not being clear.

Like you're speaking at someone.

There's not that clarity there.

So I think those would be kind of three of the tools that I would look at, really, really well to make sure you're really focusing on those as a communicator.

So good.

So we have, I want to recap real quick.

The last thing you said was patience.

The first or the middle thing was inner, being well within yourself.

And then the first was listening and adaptive listening and employing this said method.

One of the things that I've been interested in lately is assertiveness.

And it's a community.

It's like a human behavior thing that makes there's two different things.

And they're kind of at ends with one another, potentially.

I don't know.

But two fascinating concepts to me that I've been reflecting on.

And it's probably not helpful that I conflate the two.

But for some reason, I'm doing it.

And you'll understand why.

But the first is assertiveness.

But then the second is gaslighting.

Those are two really interesting things where assertiveness, when done well, can be really helpful for individuals and also for others.

Like establishing healthy boundaries and being able to communicate expectations in a clear, cutout way.

But then gaslighting is whenever it's unhealthy communication because you are essentially using communication to get someone to believe something that isn't the case.

Right?

So do you ever do assertiveness training or do you talk about how to set boundaries or how to say no or how to be more assertive?

Oh, yeah.

So one of the things that we talk about with our speaking with list, so we have these two different lists.

So here are the toxic qualities or habits of speaking at.

So we have kind of these things.

And then there's 15, which are pretty much the reverse, the opposite of the speaking with.

And sometimes people are like, oh, assertiveness or being too confident, these are unhealthy things.

Yes, for sure.

And assertive, giant confidence can definitely be when we speak at somebody and we push people away.

But I think the healthier you are, your inner world, the healthier inner world is, the more that you're concentrating on, again, even if you're not speaking on a stage, but you're speaking one on one, and still being obsessed with the person's success that you're speaking with.

And you're just thinking through, okay, what are things that I can do to help them?

What's the problem they're facing?

Who do I know that I can connect them with?

You just have that kind of obsession, and you recognize that.

So the more that you're concentrating on healthy communication, you're going to be more assertive.

You're going to be able to speak up for yourself.

You're going to be able to...

People say this to me all the time.

I need to learn how to speak up in a team meeting.

I just can't.

There's only 10 of us in the room.

The boss says, Hey guys, I need ideas.

And just as I get the courage to say something, he's moved on or she's moved on.

I just want to learn how to be able to say that.

And I think some of that assertiveness, that ability to speak in public, even in that setting, in confidence, comes through doing the hard work of getting your inner world in order, being a healthy leader, caring desperately about what other people, what they're thinking, what they're going through, how they can succeed, and then embracing clarity in like a, almost like in a weird way.

One of the things that Speak With People we developed, it's something called the pathway.

So we say, hey, you want to be a clear, captivating speaker who speaks with conviction.

It's a step-by-step journey.

So we take them through these eight steps.

And the first step is to assess and prioritize your health.

So we look at each health area and how are they doing.

The second one is to understand the with or at philosophy.

The third one is to be obsessed with your audience or your client success.

So we really talk about this other's focused life.

There's nothing new under the sun.

You'll see lots of themes from Dale Carnegie's, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Zig Ziglar stuff, Maxwell.

The fourth one is to really learn how to study and prepare.

So many communicators, leaders, we want to be improv comedians, where we just want to talk, right?

But we're not improv comedians.

We've got to put some time preparing.

And so if you know you're going into a meeting, spend five minutes thinking through, oh, I had this idea last week that this could improve the TPS report or whatever it is.

So some of those kind of things can really help.

The fifth step is to embrace clarity.

And I walk people through a tool that we developed called the Clarity Box, which is literally just a box that you put in a document that helps you take your 30,000-foot view idea and turn it into a sentence.

So if you do speak in front of people or you do have an idea, it helps you walk away with one sentence where people say, what was that about?

Now I have the sentence that I'm able to say.

So if you walk through these steps, especially embracing clarity, it's going to help you articulate your thoughts quicker and it's going to help build your assertiveness to where when you are in that meeting, you're going to be more ready than not to go, wait a minute.

Because there's always the one guy who's going to talk all the time and his ideas are all over the place.

And so that's some of the stuff we do on assertiveness, but it also helps you take some more command because the more comfortable you are with yourself, the more you believe in yourself, the more that you have put in the time to study and prepare.

Going back to the me not thinking, I'm a super intellectual, smart guy.

What that's almost done for me though is, I am a reader, I am a ferocious researcher, because I just have to be.

If I'm going to do something, I want to know what everybody says about it.

I'm going to research every article that's been, I'm going to get every book, I'm going to find the best quotes from all of it.

And so when you're doing those things consistently, it's just going to prop you up.

It's going to boost your assertiveness.

So when that moment comes and your boss is like, hey, Sheila, give us the three things we got to know about what you've been working on.

You're so much more ready to stand up and say, here, here it is, boom, boom, boom.

You may still be nervous, but at least you have that assertiveness, you have that confidence to go, no, I know what I'm talking about.

And even if I don't, I still believe in the process enough.

Yeah, I've, I heard this quote.

I think Alex Hormozzi had said it, but he said 20 minutes equates to 20 extra IQ points when you're going into a meeting.

So 20 minutes of preparation.

And I've thought about that too, because I even you host a pod, you host the Speak With People Podcast.

So whenever you have a guest on, sure, you can ask them right, like all of the questions, but how do you best platform their genius?

And you said that same question with the individual conversations.

So whenever you talk, this is something that I've recognized is you have like the speaking pathway, the clarity box, Speak With People, Healthy Communication, all of these different concepts that you've created content for.

Now, that's impressive to me because for me, sometimes I have a hard time.

I may think of something, but I have a hard time.

Oftentimes, I think there's ideators and there's people who like get stuff done.

And you strike me, and maybe this is part of your team, but how are you able to come up with these concepts and then create these frameworks and all of that?

Are you doing that on your own?

Do you split that with your team?

Like, what's that look like?

Well, we don't have time to explain the whole process because much of the process is me crying in a corner going, I can't figure this out.

I need to make this work.

Four.

So I'm the creative type, the romantic, the, you know, I love eclectic things.

My old office, you know, it was basically just...

And my office in the other part of the house is just all pictures of everything.

You know, like, I love the aesthetics of stuff.

I love to kind of, you know, I've got to get in the creative mode.

And for me, because I think super simple, a lot of these concepts have come from years of trying stuff.

And then as I moved in the coaching, trying to put it in a really clear, easy to explain, you know, box to be able to go, okay, here's how we can do this.

You know, because for years, I spoke week in, week out, week in, week out at churches.

And one of the things, you know, there's so many studies that say that people leaving church, 70% of them, they don't even remember what the sermon or the talk was about.

And so I wanted to get to a place where I was like, okay, how do I flip that?

And so, you know, I don't think people left hearing my sermons going, wow, that was super deep, like, you know, now, I think the depth came from the challenge of actually living it out.

Like, who can love their enemy, right?

Like, oh, that's the challenge.

Love is patient.

Oh, okay.

Like, really?

So with my kid who just threw a remote at the TV, I'm supposed to be patient, with, you know, my teenager who just backed the car into the garage.

Ooh, you know, so the depth came in from the challenging people to actually live it out.

So I wanted to be able to create some very clear measures.

So it all started with the Clarity Box because as I started to coach other leaders on how to communicate, there are so many great tools out there already.

But I was like, okay, I need to put this in a way that I can understand.

And so that's kind of where that's kind of where it came from.

And then this last year, we actually hosted a conference called the Speaker's Conference, which I'm hoping to do again.

And it would be great to get you out here for that.

That'd be amazing.

But we're like, what do we take these people through?

Because there's so much stuff on speaking.

And this conference is really for the everyday leader.

This is not for the, it can be for the professional speaker, but it's for the person who's delivering 20 presentations a year and is just tired of slapping up graphic slides.

They want their presentations to pop.

And so we're like, okay, for the everyday leader who wants to learn how to speak like a leader, speak with command, speak with in a captivating way, in a clear way.

So yeah, that's kind of how it came.

How can we start to create some of these pathways, these ideas to be able to do it?

And then we kind of started putting them together.

So now it's been kind of trial and error, because I'm getting in front of more and more people where we're explaining these things.

And then we're like, okay, that doesn't work.

Let's tweak it this way.

Okay, that works.

Let's tweak it this way.

And now we're able to take their framework.

So really, it just kind of was birthed out of how do I help people understand it in the most simplest of terms?

Because sometimes people want to confuse public speaking so much.

They're like, I got to say everything that's in my head.

I've got to tell every story.

I got to show every slide.

No, cut it way.

They're like, what do you mean cut it way down?

So that's kind of where the Clarity Box came from, which we're actually unveiling in a month.

And so we're getting real excited because we're going to put that out there for people.

And so we'll see.

It's been helpful kind of for our coaching clients.

Now we'll see if it's helpful for the everyday leader.

Ooh, I'm going to check that out.

The one thing I'm curious about if what are some biblical principles, things that you see in the Bible that suggest it's important to be a good communicator?

Oh, geez.

Well, New Testament and the Book of James.

James is a small book, five chapters.

Many theologians believe that the author is actually the half-brother of Jesus.

And so this is a guy who, in the beginning, didn't really buy what his half-brother was selling.

He wasn't all the way in that Jesus was the Messiah.

He's the chosen one.

He's like, you're my brother.

He's like, Mom, tell him to be quiet.

Yeah, exactly.

So by the time we see the Book of James, he's already looped in.

But this book is totally about your day-to-day faith.

How do I live this stuff out so I'm actually living a different life?

And in the Book of James, it talks about the tongue.

And it talks about how the tongue is so small.

It's just the tiniest part.

But, you know, it starts, a small spark can set a giant fire.

The rudder on a ship is tiny, but it steers this giant vessel.

The bit in a horse's mouth is this big, but it can move, you know, this entire beast that's just giant.

And so James talks about the power of the tongue.

You know, be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry.

Ooh!

Even if I don't believe in Jesus, I'm not a person of faith.

Even if one of your listeners is still wrestling through that, how can I believe all of that kind of stuff?

I really like Andy Stanley's words.

He's a pastor in Atlanta.

He says, even if you don't buy this Jesus stuff, living the tenets of Jesus really will make you a better person.

Think about that for a second.

How many times, if I just would have been quick to listen and slow to speak, could that have saved me a blow up with my spouse, an argument with my kid, a co-worker and I?

It's powerful stuff.

That's huge.

In the book of James, Proverbs 10-11, from the message translation of the Bible, it says the mouth of the good is like a deep life-giving well, and the mouth of the wicked is a dark cave of abuse.

So that's actually kind of where we got Speak With People, not at them from.

So, you know, I want to speak with people in a way that is a deep life-giving well.

I want my words to fill people up.

I want my words to bring life.

I mean, the God of the universe, right?

He created everything, everything the first book says in Genesis, because there's, you know, many, many books inside of the one book, right?

The Bible.

There's 66 books, 39 books in the Old Testament, 27 in the New Testament.

Genesis 1, the whole thing starts with, in the beginning, God created the earth.

And then he speaks it all into existence.

He didn't Google it.

He didn't, you know, he just speaks, right?

And you and I, all these years later, we're still speaking things into existence, right?

At some point, you probably had a conversation with your wife or someone close to you and said, I think I want to start a podcast.

I think I'm going to call it.

And then you just kind of went to talk to people.

And you spoke it.

And like we're still speaking things into existence.

So, you know, I want my words to be that deep life giving will.

I don't want them to be a dark cave of abuse.

Unfortunately for me, wit, sarcasm, cynicism, like left unchecked, it gets really bad for me.

And so as much as my words are encouraging and good, I got to fight that they're not, you know, that dark cave of abuse because they can be.

I did a Facebook post not too long ago where I talked about, if you can, if you can't speak with people, then don't speak at them.

And I talked about how there's like two or three conversations in my life over the last 48 years that I can still remember where I spoke really ugly words to someone.

And I can still remember them.

Even though I've gone back, asked for forgiveness, like those words, they'll haunt you.

Like how did I say that to somebody?

That's the power of words.

And so that's why this means so much to me, because if we can help people speak with each other, imagine the marriages that can be saved, imagine the parent-teen relationships that can be flourishing, imagine the boss-employee relationships that can accomplish so much more, and I think it all comes back to communication.

So good.

So, so good.

I was thinking about that yesterday, and that was a question I really wanted to ask you because I know that you have a ministry background, but then now you're building a business that is centered around promoting healthy communication.

I have a little theory I want to bounce off you, okay?

So one of the...

I read this book called Reclaiming Conversation by Sherry Turkle, and she's this MIT professor who's working with these cutting-edge scientists that are developing technology that's changing the world.

And the book was written back in 2013 or 2012, something like that, and she puts out the statement of, hey, social media is connecting us, but it may not actually be a good substitute for face-to-face, in-person relationships, right?

So that's 12 years ago, and as you can see, a lot of things have changed.

But one of the things she talked about was they were doing these babysitter robots, okay?

And how in different countries, they're proceeding at different paces as far as robotics and artificial intelligence.

But sometimes I wonder if we were to go back 20 years ago, if we talked more, like the actual physical act of talking, if we talked more, and the reason being is, I think we've moved to a lot more digital media-esque words on text.

And then, in addition to that, if we talked to people more, because now we're getting to the point where we talk to artificial intelligence.

And then they just put this neural link in someone's head, and it does make me wonder how long, and it's an interesting question, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, but we will be speaking things into existence.

Part of me is just scared as can be.

Part of me is excited about the advancement in technology and what can happen.

But it's already so frustrating.

You call a company and you're on hold, and then they're asking you all these questions, and they can't understand you.

And so part of me is like, oh, hopefully this advancement will make our lives better, increase our capacity to accomplish more.

But yeah, to me, it's a really, or the people who are already, their only relationships are with some AI bot, where they're just talking to this Alexa type thing all day long and going back and forth.

And I'm like, okay, it'll be really interesting.

Can the technology advance enough to where that AI bot will have the nuances in conversation and be able to reflect tone and questions and all that?

Or will it just always be this computer robot?

That's a good one.

I know.

It's something I reflect on.

And to me, what it does is it emphasizes the need of creating content and resources and programs that outline what, like for you, healthy communication looks like, why it's so important to connect with those around you.

I was driving home today and at the bus stop, I did like an early morning workout and it was after the workout.

There was two people at the bus stop waiting to get picked up for school, and they were both sitting on their phones looking down.

And I was like, in the moment, I was laughing thinking about like, if one of them gets grounded away from their phone, they just have to stand at the bus stop without a phone.

And it's like, well, historically, you know, you'd be talking.

But it definitely makes me think like, hmm, we need to continue doing what we're doing.

Because the...

Yeah, I think there's...

The opportunity is so big just for us to continue claiming the importance of healthy conversation and social connection.

Absolutely.

That's why I appreciate so much what you do.

Like, I really do appreciate the conversations that you have.

I mean, I've told you this before.

I mean, I think you're absolutely brilliant.

And so if people can hear more of your podcast, if people can kind of hear these conversations, I think they will be so much better.

But then I love what you're doing to improve the world and to help people.

So thank you for all that you do.

Yeah, and thank you for being here.

It makes me think of I had this clinical psychologist on who studies AI romantic bots.

And he was talking to me about how there's this software and all these platforms that exist.

And you can have a companion and then it'll give you like, it gives you points the more questions you ask it, and then you unlock achievements.

So it's like leveling up.

And it encourages people to ask questions.

So I was like, well, that's nice.

But then it'll be like one of the chat options is do you want to go on a date?

And you're like, oh, yeah.

So you click it and it's like, pay $15 a month.

And then you get to unlock the romantic option.

And it makes me think of like someone going down that path.

And then if they ever were to date a real person, then they're like, what do you mean you're hungry?

My last girlfriend was never hungry, was never tired.

That would be a funny bit that you could work out.

But you're working on Speak With People.

You're going to be on a TEDx stage pretty soon.

You're going to be doing open mics.

I know these things are out there for you.

I'm speaking them into existence.

Are you working on a book right now?

Yes.

So the book is Speak With People, Not At Them.

And so really the book, we'll dive into what we talked about today.

So we talk about all of those healthy communication habits and really how healthy communication is oxygen for our relationships.

And so when we speak with people, we can breathe life into them.

And let's not do the opposite.

Let's not suck the life out of them by speaking at them.

So that will hopefully be out either summer or the fall.

Are you doing self-published for that?

Yeah.

Cool.

Getting it done.

And your team is awesome.

Zach is killing it with all of your stuff.

Shout out to him.

The Speak With People team.

You're producing these podcasts like crazy.

I love the Speak With Leader.

I'm so impressed by your content generation.

So keep it up.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's awesome.

And I use you as a resource.

So I'm glad for that.

But all that being said, let's give you a final message.

What do you got?

What's the parting message?

Parting message?

I think it's to the person who is wondering, do my words actually matter?

It's just words at the end of the day.

And so my parting message would be, yes, your words absolutely do matter.

And so become someone who is a healthy leader, who chooses and uses words that breathe life into the world.

Because it really does matter when you improve things, and you can do that.

So that'd be my parting message.

Well, thank you for sharing your experience, your biblical knowledge.

And next time you go on stage, you may want to try out the black leather pants, because you know it worked for you.

Way to close the story loop.

That was beautiful.

You may want to try them yourself, because that could be how you beat the kid with the feet behind his head.

I love it.

Thank you, my friend.

Appreciate it.

Well, thanks for being here.

And folks, as always, we will see you next time.