#80 - He's Talked to Over 6,000 Different People and Today I'm One of Them [Rob Lawless]

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Talk to People Podcast.

This is your host, Chris Miller.

My guest today has shared the stage with Kelly Clarkson.

He's been on Ryan Seacrest's radio program.

And as of today, we can officially say he's been on the Talk to People Podcast.

And I am talking to Rob Lawless, or as I like to call him, Rob 10,000, because he is on a personal journey to share a one-hour conversation, or to have a one-hour conversation with 10,000 different people.

I got to talk to him.

I was number, let me check my phone so I get this right, number 6,489, which means in the past few years, Rob has shared over 6,489 hours.

Actually, let me check right now.

He posted up today 6,561 hours of in-depth, mainly uninterrupted conversation.

There's so much to learn from that.

So in this episode, I asked him a whole bunch of questions.

How do you navigate a one-hour conversation?

What types of questions do you ask?

How do you read the people in the room?

What was it like being on the Kelly Clarkson Show?

What are some of your favorite questions to ask people?

Have you been surprised?

Do you get on your phone during these conversations?

I'm very curious about how we connect better with those around us.

So I have to ask people these questions who have done it a ton.

They say the whole 10,000 hours it takes to be a master.

Well, Rob is well on his way.

Not only that, but I'm also going to tell you how you can be a part of his journey and have a conversation with him.

It can even be over Zoom.

So be sure to check out the description and also stick around to the podcast because we talk about it in the episode.

If this is your first time listening to the podcast, let me give you the premise real quick.

This whole podcast is me having conversations or solo episodes where I'm trying to learn how to better connect with those people in my life.

The podcast is a resource for young adults to have better social lives, to live life more connected, because I firmly believe that life is better when you talk to people.

I'm also 20 reviews away on Spotify from hitting 100 reviews on Spotify.

So if you are a Spotify user or listener, or maybe you just use Apple podcasts, but you're able to download Spotify so that you can review the podcast, you can watch video on Spotify.

So as I'm talking right now, there's a video playing on Spotify.

If you ever want to watch the video podcast, I also upload them to YouTube, but that's a little plug.

So if you could rate and review the podcast on Spotify.

And without further ado, Rob 10,000.

I am here with Rob.

Rob, what made you pick the number 10,000?

I mean, at a very simple level, I just thought it was going to be really cool.

Like, do you know who Seth Godin is?

Yeah.

So he has like the concept of the purple cow.

And I feel like when I started, so the whole journey to spend an hour one-on-one with 10,000 different people, at the heart of it, it's just a way to create authentic connection with people that I don't already know.

And I studied finance at Penn State, and I minored in accounting and entrepreneurship.

And the entrepreneur side of me has always wanted to do my own path in life.

And I was like, my dream life would be to just get paid to meet people.

So how do I make that happen?

And I feel like once people started to document missions on social media, I was like, 10,000 would be a really cool thing to shoot for.

It would help me understand the world from a bunch of different perspectives.

And I would say like, 100 people would be a cool New Year's resolution, 1,000 would be a nice side project.

But to do 10,000 really forces you to invest in it as a career.

And I kind of wanted to force my own hand to have to work on it full time.

Because this November will be nine years since I started the project.

And I'm just crossing the 6,500 mark this week.

So there will probably be like seven more years to complete it.

All in all, it's going to be about 15, 16 years.

And if I were to try to do it alongside a part-time job, if I met one new person every single day, it would take me 30 years.

So it was partially that.

But partially, so going back to the purple cow, one connection isn't really that wild.

But when you turn it into 10,000, the cow becomes purple.

And share with everybody listening the concept of Seth Godin's purple cow.

Yeah.

So the concept is if you're driving down the street and you pass a farm and you see a cow, you're not going to think twice.

But if you're driving past that farm and you see a cow that's purple, you're likely going to get out, you're going to take pictures, you're going to send it to your friends, you're going to post it to social media.

So how do you turn something purple?

And for me, it was turning this goal of connection into something that a lot of people perceived as daunting and some people perceived as unrealistic, but I just perceived it as exciting.

Me too, it's so, I see, I'm very inspired by you, and it's a weird inspiration because you were doing the things that I think about doing sometimes, and maybe I need to have a bit more hutzpah, or I believe, I'm in a funny moment to where the past two years I've been doing, like freelance, entreprenuership, doing all that jazz, and I've created a ton of content, I've had a lot of conversations about social connection.

But what I'm finding is I've been doing a lot of this on my own, and it's something like I'd be curious, your experience, but really, I don't know, 80 percent of the time I am sitting in front of a computer.

I do some client work, like virtually, and I have some local clients.

But I've realized showing up to work every day and having a team is a big, I mean, it's most people's, most social connection is work, right?

After school, once we get a bit older, school no longer becomes the main thing.

So it's work.

So one of the things I realized was seeing my wife go off to go to work every day, and we live right by university, so she works with the university, and there's a lot of energy there.

And her being able to come home and talk about all the things happening.

I think I'm leaving a lot on the table regarding my ability to connect with those around me, because there are so many moments where I'm not going out and doing that.

And what you're doing, you're creating a social connection yourself, and you're being very entrepreneurial about that.

I just feel like I'm burning out on that side of the house.

What's been your experience there?

I feel lucky in a sense because I'm built it, like I try to meet four new people every single day.

So usually I'll schedule times at 8 a.m., 10 a.m., 1 p.m., and 3 p.m.

And my week is broken.

Like if I'm not traveling to speak, then Monday through Friday is those four time slots hopefully filled with meetings.

Doesn't necessarily mean everyone will hold or people won't cancel last minute or not show up or reschedule.

But I at least have built in scheduled connection in my life.

But it's interesting because I still felt a little bit of what you're talking about because a lot of times I'm seeing these people once and then it might be a month before I see them again.

I might never see them again.

And so there's also that piece of not having the consistent network of people around you.

I feel like that started to change for me once I got more into speaking.

So I was telling you I went to a bootcamp called Impact 11 to learn more about the business of speaking.

And that was the first time that I was in a room of other professional speakers who were all kind of working towards similar goals and who had similar experiences to me.

So meeting them, I feel like they kind of became my colleagues because some of them are located here in Philly.

Others I'm talking to because they became my manager or were signed to the same roster.

And there are other speakers that we're always trying to figure out how to grow our businesses.

So I talk with other speakers a lot.

So I feel like I got that sense of community through them.

But yeah, it is hard when you don't have people to just cross in the hallways or whatever.

And I do think co-working spaces are valuable for that.

I did a nine-month partnership with WeWork, the co-working space.

That was the biggest partnership that I had done through my project.

And I loved meeting people at their spaces because they were super cool.

And I felt like I was surrounded by the vibe of community and entrepreneurship.

And I reached out to them to partner because I've met so many people, cool people through their spaces prior to trying to partner with them.

And that's how it kind of opened the door.

But yeah, I feel it.

But I also do have this scheduled connection, which helps.

What's the...

It feels like you've almost developed a flywheel with meeting new people now since the project's gotten bigger and maybe get people reaching out.

For instance, I reached out to you and here we are.

What's the intake process?

How do you set up these conversations?

It's just people message me on Instagram and then find a time that works.

Like I have an account lead link as well, which I scheduled 5,800 meetings out of 6,500 without ever using Calendly.

And that's probably the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life.

Yeah.

And I just, I don't know, it took me so long to do it because I was like, I like the back and forth of people, but I would send them a picture of my schedule and then they'd be like, oh, I can do Wednesday at 3 p.m.

And I'd be like, oh, sorry, that time was taken.

And then I'd send them a new picture and it was very archaic and slow moving.

But yeah, it's very simple.

Like people will reach out to me on Instagram and then we'll just find the time that works.

And then if they're in person, we'll find a place in Philly that we can do that at.

And if not, then we'll connect virtually through Zoom.

And I used to meet everyone only in person.

The first 3,259 people were all in person.

And I had planned to never do a video call because I wanted to travel to different places and start to meet people where they were in different countries.

But then, of course, COVID changed that.

And personally, it was a blessing in disguise that I was able to start connecting with people without any geographic barriers.

And yeah, so now I do it that way.

But I have times like this weekend, I was looking at my schedule for this week and it was pretty light.

And I was like, I need to find some more people to meet.

So I put out a post on Instagram asking people to message me.

And I was able to fill my schedule for the week.

But there, yeah, which is great.

And then there are other times like in 2020, I put out a video on TikTok just saying, hey, I've been doing this for five years.

If you want to be part of it, hit me up and I had a thousand people message me in 24 hours.

So, and I've had that happen a couple of times where I've got overwhelmed with messages.

It creates this interesting dynamic because then I can't see all those messages.

So sometimes now when I put out a post, people will message me and be like, hey, I'd love to meet.

And then I see they've messaged me back in 2020, like two times and I never saw it.

And so, yeah, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I missed your message, but I want to meet everyone.

There's no one I don't want to meet.

It's just sometimes a product of like seeing it.

So anybody watching, listening could meet with you if they go to your Instagram and they message you.

Oh yeah, for sure.

Shoot me a message on Instagram.

I'll say it like now my message is pretty, they're pretty well taken care of.

So if they reached out to me, like I would see it that day.

Okay, as someone who's fascinated with conversation and interaction, I have a few technicality questions to ask you.

And I feel like you're really good to answer because you have a ton of experience.

So say this counts as in addition to your project, what number would this be?

So this will count, this will be, let's see.

You are number 6489.

Okay, I feel like I need to get a shirt with that number on it, right?

Yeah.

6489.

Let me write that down real quick.

Yep.

6489.

Okay, so whenever you go into one of these one-on-ones, do you have a typical progression in your mind, a typical checklist?

Reading, I understand it's like, hey, it's connecting with people, no reason, whatever.

You don't have an agenda type deal.

So I'm not necessarily getting an agenda, but just you've worked with thousands of people.

So in your head, just to make the conversation easier, what do you go by?

I think my genuine interest is where people come from, where are they, and where do they want to go in their lives?

Okay, so it's like a narrative.

Yeah, and I want it to end.

Sometimes I can get in my head about that because, for example, the girl that I just met, she has this art studio here in Philly, really cool art studio.

And we probably spent 40 of our 60 minutes together talking about speaking because she's just starting to get into speaking.

And I'm a little further along and she had a bunch of questions on that and it's great because if I can help her get to a place where she can land more speeches and she could have the financial freedom to put her art into the world.

Yeah.

That's a really valuable use of time.

And at the same time, she's like, yeah, I'm from Guyana.

I had like this terribly abusive childhood.

She's like art basically saved my life.

She's working on super innovative projects like an art installation where it's connected to people's breathing.

So when they breathe, it lights up like panels and they can kind of see the way that their breath illuminates the world around them.

And she's like, if you connect two people to it, then it'll be brighter to show how much brighter the world is when people are connected with each other.

That's awesome.

And I was like, man, I want to hear more about this.

I want to hear about how your art is impacted by your childhood and all this stuff.

So part of me is like, okay, I like talking about the speaking, but I want to hear more about this.

And then the fact that I write about everyone afterwards, I feel my responsibility in my posts is to the people I meet.

So I really don't care if I like that my audience follows my page and gets perspective, but I get compliments on the authenticity of it and the genuineness of it.

And I think that's because I'm not trying to sensationalize people's stories to have it be seen by a ton of people.

The most important audience for my post is the person whose story I captured.

So if you feel it accurately represents you, but other people don't really find it to be super interesting, that's great.

I don't really care if it gets shared a hundred times or whatnot.

I want you to feel like, hey, this is an accurate representation of who I am as a person.

So when I'm meeting with people, I'm trying to tease out who they are so I can accurately reflect them, because sometimes I think the person I'm meeting with might not be conscious of how much of their life they're sharing with me.

So I love this quote, the audience cannot see what you do not give them to see.

So they might not know that I don't have a lot of information to work with if they're not sharing a lot about their story, but then they might want that post to reflect it.

So these are all things that go through my mind.

But generally, and I was able to do that with the girl too, like we're able to fit both things into our time together.

Like I just like to know where people are, where they came from and where they want to go.

Okay, so that is your North Star there.

You're thinking about the audience and being able to capture their story and document it, which inspires kind of the questions you ask.

So that being said, what questions do you find yourself most asking?

So when I do my keynote talks now, I give people this framework called the Friend Framework, which is based off of the Ford Framework.

Have you ever heard of the Ford Framework?

Yeah.

So Ford is family, occupation, recreation, dreams.

As a speaker, to just tailor it a little bit more to my whole project and to make it easier to remember for people.

Friend, like how do you turn a colleague into a friend?

For example, family and relationships.

So your family dynamic, like your friendships.

The I is industry, which is your education into your career path.

Entertainment is your hobbies outside of work.

Like what do you like to do when you're not at work?

And then needs and dreams?

Or what are your dreams for the future?

And what do you need to get there?

So the questions often fall into one of those categories.

And I tell people, like, think about people's lives like a timeline.

And you can fill out people's timelines by asking questions within each of these categories, because someone's location, for example, will evolve over time.

I'm in Philly now, but there are times that I lived in Los Angeles, times that I lived in Hoboken.

People's family dynamic will evolve over time.

Like, I have two older siblings, but now that I'm older, I have two nephews, and I have a niece as of three weeks ago.

So, like, yeah, thank you.

So, like, our supporting cast is evolving as we get older.

Some people experience loss, people that they had in their childhood that they don't have now.

And I like to ask people, like, what are the routine things that you do outside of work?

So they start to think, because a lot of people get paralyzed by thinking what interesting thing can I tell this person that I'm doing.

Yeah, they don't think they're interesting enough.

Yeah, and as you know, I always tell people, it's not what makes you interesting.

It's what are you interested in?

Like, if you love Dungeons and Dragons, tell me about it.

I want to hear about it.

Like, I don't care how other people perceive it or how you perceive it.

I just want to know how you spend your time.

So one of my favorite questions to ask people, which is one that I think people most appreciate being asked, is if you think about your identity as a pie chart, and I'm going to ask it to you because I'm curious to see what your answer is.

If you think about your identity as a pie chart, what would be the breakdown of categories and what would be the percentages?

Because from our conversation, I know you do the podcast, I know you do the freelance entrepreneurship, you mentioned you have a wife.

So you can assume like family.

There's a few of them in there, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a great question.

And to tag on to the Ford Method and the Friend Method, I had made an episode once and it was, I found this thing on Reddit called the Hefe method.

It was H-E-F-E.

And it was a bit similar.

It was hobbies, entertainment, friends, and environment.

And their critique on the Ford Method was that, kind of like how you had adjusted it, which I like.

Their critique on the Ford Method was that it was a bit, maybe a bit too archaic.

That's what they're saying.

Like, tell me about your dreams, if it's a casual conversation, right?

Like what's your biggest dream?

Sometimes that can feel a bit, that can be like a reach.

So they were talking about the environment and how easy it is just to comment on your current environment.

Like, oh, that's a cool painting back there.

Or like, nice fake tree back there.

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

But okay, the pie chart.

So I definitely have a hard time with this exercise because the more I reflect, the more like pieces of the pie that start to pop in, right?

Like, recently, my parents have been struggling with their health issues.

So I've been thinking more about the sun slice of the pie chart and being present and being around them, calling them, trying my best to navigate that.

But then, as Annie and I, we get further on in our marriage and hopefully be able to build a family soon.

It's like thinking more about the husband and hopefully one day there's a dad and they're an entrepreneur and creative.

And historically and currently, I've definitely wanted my key and core identity.

I believe faith is important there, but honestly, one thing is just someone who is just like a very curious person about the people around me.

Because I enjoy, I love what you're doing.

And like we're two of the same here.

Like I love being able to talk to somebody and to let them know that they're valuable, they're worth it.

Like they have something very unique to bring the conversation.

Often time podcasters, whenever they're starting a podcast, so they ask me like, what do I ask about?

I'm just like, follow your innate curiosity because you are going to be curious about things I'm not curious about.

And that's your competitive edge.

And different people are a bit more attuned to this.

They can do it more naturally, but I think that's really good.

So it's hard, but the pie chart question, that's a tough one and I like it.

Yeah.

If you remove your relationships and you remove your work, what are the other things that you're interested in?

I do soccer three times a week.

I've been loving that.

Lately, I've been trying to get swole.

I'm trying to get bigger.

So I've been thinking about trying out creatine.

Have you ever taken creatine?

No, but I use a mass builder like protein powder.

I was looking at mass builders the other day.

I took one in college called serious Mass.

Do you take serious Mass?

No, it's literally in that thing, in that drawer, but I don't know what it's called.

serious Mass looks like it comes in what you would imagine a dog food bag to come in.

Oh, yeah.

You just dump it in there and try and blend it together.

It's so chalky.

It's like in one drink, you have 1500 calories or something.

Yeah, serving size like eight scoops.

Yeah, right.

It's crazy.

So that's something I'm trying to get into.

I like dog dad.

I guess that's relationship.

Lately, I've been really into my law and trying to work on the law and the law owner over here.

So that would be my answer there.

And you get to ask the question, and in school, we would always do this.

The anthropology, no, the sociologist rule of like, never ask a question you can't answer yourself.

And you've asked it thousands of times probably.

So how would you answer the question about the pie chart and identity?

I feel like it's starting to shift a little bit, but my typical answer is 60% is my project.

And within that is meeting new people, seeing new places, leaving a legacy of some sort, growing as a speaker, pushing my comfort zone.

20% is friends and family.

Like I still have both my parents, they're still together.

I have an older sister and an older brother, very tight with all of them.

Very close with my Penn State friends and a few friends from high school.

So the family and friends is the highest-weighted one for me.

Like it's the one I care most about.

So that's 20%.

And then 10% music.

I have two guitars.

I took lessons for two years in high school.

And I like to go to concerts and whatnot.

I went to Lollapalooza this summer with a few friends, which was great.

And 5% fitness.

So I used to go to the gym three days a week.

And I'm a little bit of a hiatus from that right now because my one roommate from Penn State who lives in the Philly suburbs, we signed up for the Philly Marathon together.

Yeah, not a runner.

Like I've never done a half marathon, never done like a 10K race or anything like that.

But it's a way, I'm 33.

So a lot of my friends are married with kids.

And he has a two and a half year old daughter.

And it's like a way for us to train and spend time together.

And so that's been a lot of fun, like getting into running, which for me has led into now joining running groups in the city, which is like really ticking up my social life, which I'm enjoying.

And at 5% reading, I'm currently reading Bad Blood, which is the book about Theranos, the startup with Elizabeth Holmes.

So that's been interesting.

I'm like halfway through that.

And then, yeah, that's 100%.

But the things, Philly sports is a big part of my identity.

I live alone.

So most nights I'm watching the Phillies on the background while I read.

I love Phillies sports too, because it makes me feel more connected to the community here.

You can have knowledgeable conversations about it.

But then football, like I'm a big Penn State football fan.

I am into fantasy football.

So now that that's starting back up, like, did you do your draft recently?

I have done one and one is coming up within the next week.

So, yeah, I watched a Phillies game two days ago at the Kansas City Royals played.

Oh, yeah, and I watched them lose like the Royals lost like 12 to 2.

I don't know something bad.

It was good.

And then you guys had this player Real Muto or JT.

Yeah, I could catch her.

And he hit one homerun that counted for three points because there was two people on the bases.

And then he did it again.

Yeah.

Within like 20 minutes.

And I was like, I was thinking to myself, like he hit two three pointers within the same amount of time that a lot of NBA players do.

Oh, yeah.

He's not supposed to be hitting three pointers.

Yeah, that's true.

That was awesome.

Yeah, you guys beat us, I think in the first game.

The first time.

Yeah, and we beat you in the next two.

We've had a great start to the year.

This is supposed to be, I hear, Philly could be a World Series contender.

Yeah, they should be.

I mean, up till the All-Star break, we had the best record in baseball.

And then after the All-Star break, we have, I think, the second worst record in the national League.

So, it's been tough, but the last two games have been encouraging because I think we did hit like 12 runs against you two days ago.

And then yesterday we had 11, so now people are like, okay, maybe we're back.

Dang.

All it took was a little bit of the Royals getting beat down.

Yeah.

It was my first Royals game where we got to sit in the box.

Oh, that's cool.

It was super cool.

There was an indoor, there was food, and you got to go outside and go back indoor.

That was really nice.

You had mentioned Elizabeth Holmes with Theranos, and something she's very well known for is deceiving people.

Sure.

Up front and having something in mind and saying something different.

Have you ever been in one of your thousands of interactions to where you felt like the person wasn't being genuine?

Yeah, for sure.

And I've had times where it's interesting.

I've had, like I shared people's stories, and sometimes I remember meeting one guy who told me he started a non-profit at his school or something like that.

And then that non-profit account commented in there like, no, he didn't start this.

He's a member of it, but he didn't start it.

And I was like, I got to leave it up for transparency.

But I've had stuff like that happen.

Sometimes people will comment and add their own thing if they do not feel like that person's story is fully represented.

But and I've had people in the past.

Like I remember when I lived in LA., there was a girl who was like, oh, I wanted to meet with you because I wanted to get more followers for my food Instagram account.

And I was like, yeah, okay, that's fine.

Like, it doesn't feel great, but I'm also not giving you any like you're taking the time out of your day.

So you really don't owe me anything.

Like you're helping me by showing up.

So yeah, and I think, and for me, I'm like, I don't know if you feel the pressure to portray yourself in a certain way.

Like I certainly don't care.

I'm not trying to be impressed by you.

You don't need to impress me.

I'm just happy to spend the time and share an hour with you.

It's like the experience.

And some of my favorite conversations are with people who've had the most seemingly boring lives.

And it doesn't have to be wild for me to enjoy my time with you.

So I think sometimes that's driven by people's insecurity and wanting to portray themselves in a certain way, especially in the world of comparison culture.

And yeah, but I think me is I just give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

And I try to see the good in everyone.

And I don't think there's a benefit for me to try to this person is probably lying to me or not.

I just try to come to the table with respect and hope that they do the same.

And then beyond that, it's kind of out of my control.

You're not doing cross-examination, trying to figure out the flaws or the holes in their story.

Right.

Yeah.

That would be exhausting.

I like the way that you approach that.

And we both started our projects.

You started your project.

I started my podcast wanting to do in-person only.

And here I am doing a virtual podcast.

Here you are doing a virtual conversation.

What's the difference?

I think the environment is certainly different.

Like I like in-person being able to give someone a hug or a handshake when I see them and sitting down and having like the ambiance of the coffee shop or the park that you're at, or the bar or whatever.

So I think that's cool.

And there's also sometimes spontaneous, like third-party interruptions that come in when you're just out in public with someone at a park.

So that has been interesting.

I think virtually it has just been so nice to not have there be any geographic barriers.

Like I've met people from over 90 different countries now.

And I've met people that from countries that I didn't know existed before they reached out from that place.

Like Suriname is one of them, which is new to me.

Yeah, it's in the northern part of South America.

And Mauritius, I also didn't know about.

It's like an island nation east of Madagascar.

And just other places in general, like Svalbard, which I believe is part of Norway, but it's above Norway.

And it's like one of the northernmost civilizations.

So all of this, and like I tell people, I went from being an American citizen to a global citizen in that time.

Cool.

Because, and it's not our fault, like that our news tends to be overwhelmed with American news, but I really gained an appreciation for how much other people pay attention to what goes on here, and how little we pay attention to what goes on in their places.

And it made me more curious, like, you start to learn about other countries' elections and other countries' world leaders, and who are the, like, I, I think it was I was talking to people from Colombia, and I was like, who's a celebrity from Colombia that, you know, like a big artist?

And they're like, oh, Maluma.

And like, never heard of him.

And I look him up on like Instagram, he's got like over 100 million followers, and like, man, it's so, and you think about that in terms of our experiences, and being able to relate to each other, like how wild is it that 100 million people could praise and love this person's music?

And we still have never heard of them.

So it just made me aware of how limited my perspective was, just by nature of how many people exist in the world.

Have you ever thought to yourself, if I learn a few more languages, this project could be easier or could even be more wild?

Oh yeah, I would love to learn.

I mean, I'd love to know all the languages, but Spanish would be sweet.

Because I've talked to a lot of people where English is their second language, like they're from South America or from Central America.

And it's always funny because they're like, oh, I'm so sorry for my English.

And they speak perfect English.

And I'm like, I can relate to you being insecure about speaking the second language because there's no way I'm speaking Spanish.

And like I acknowledge you for having learned my language.

You've gone so much further than I have to arrive at this conversation at a point where we can communicate with each other.

So don't apologize to me.

I should be apologizing to you for the fact that you had to learn my language so we could speak.

But yeah, I wish that I knew more languages.

I think it'd be cool to drop myself in a Spanish speaking nation for like six months and just force my way.

Force myself to learn by having trying to do these conversations every day and just stumbling through it.

But how do you address laws in the conversation?

I think that I've gotten to a point.

Early on, I met a girl who was like, Oh, Americans aren't comfortable with silence.

She was American, but she had traveled a lot.

She's like, Europeans are so much more comfortable with it.

And I think I just took that mentality whenever there was a lull, but only for like too long because I was like, maybe this other person isn't as comfortable with it as I'm trying to be.

But I just became armed over the years with a big library of topics that I could pull from.

So the lulls became less and less because I knew I could take the conversation in so many different directions.

So I could think about, if I'm thinking about this person's life like a timeline, like where are the gaps?

Okay, maybe we've talked through their life now, but I don't know what they were like in high school, or I didn't really dive into their childhood yet.

And then it becomes, okay, where are the gaps in that framework too?

Like, I don't really know how they made their best friends or who their best friends are.

I don't know what their dreams are for the future.

So it's just trying to fill in the holes that I don't know about that person's story yet.

And I feel like once you, with a lot of conversations, because I've met a lot of people too, who are one word answer, people who are very socially anxious, it's difficult to have an hour long conversation with them.

But it almost becomes a game of what topic can you hit on to get this person going.

Because everyone has something that they're passionate about.

And there was one guy that I met, and for the first 15 minutes, we were getting nowhere.

We even grew up in the same hometown, didn't mean anything.

I was like, all right, this is going to be rough to fill an hour of time.

And in 15 minutes, we started talking about scuba diving.

And the next 45 minutes, scuba diving the whole way.

And then afterwards, he's like, oh, we should meet up and grab a beer again sometime.

So it was just like finding that one thing that they are passionate about.

That's a good approach.

I love doing that.

I love, and like you said, with the scuba diving, you notice it, you see the disposition change, the confidence, the pitch, the tone, even the pacing.

People start talking quicker than they were.

And you're like, sweet.

Now I know, there's a friend of mine who, when in doubt, talk about Lord of the Rings.

Okay.

This guy loves Lord of the Rings.

Yeah.

And I like Lord of the Rings too.

I don't know as much about it as he does, but what I do know is that he loves it.

And I know enough about Legolas and Aragorn to be able to say, like, I wonder why blank, blank, blank.

And he's like, hey, here's why.

Yeah.

And he lets me know.

So shopping around to find what they're passionate about and regarding lulls, being comfortable with silence, but then having the topics.

Those are awesome things.

Yeah.

There's something else I just thought of too, which is like the idea that vulnerability breeds vulnerability.

So instead of trying to find the question that you can ask the person, like flip it back on yourself and like, what can you share that will open that other person up to either ask you questions about what you've shared or that you can then flip back on them as a question.

So switching it to like sharing first and then asking beyond that.

Yeah.

I've always thought of that too, as covering, like you're providing the cover for them to be able to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Open up.

It's a good way to think about it.

And I feel like leaders are really good at that.

In organizations, they're the ones who are like, yeah, we're going to have to work overnight, but I'll be here too.

Or, you know, like, what, you know, like Simon Sinek, I think really has rooted a lot of what he does in this concept of like that vulnerability going forth and doing that.

You you've been on Kelly Clarkson, got to hang out.

What's it like preparing for going on Kelly Clarkson?

Very nerve wracking.

Yeah, it's interesting because they reached out to me on Instagram in August of 2019.

It's like the timing of things.

You start to look back and be like, okay, there's some type of design here.

But I, CBS Philadelphia wanted to do a piece on me, but I was just leaving to go to LA.

So they were like, okay, let's do it in the summer when you get back.

So I did it with them in the summer of 2019 once I got back.

And then that same summer, Kelly Clarkson's talk show was new.

And they were looking for stories that fit this good neighbor theme that she was going for.

And my story had just been fresh in the press through this CBS thing at that time.

And then the Philadelphia Inquirer, the newspaper here, did an article on me.

So actually two separate producers from the show, both DM'd me independently, not knowing that the other one had hit me up.

Yeah, which is cool.

And then they hit you up, and you're like, oh, this is so excited.

Like, I'm so happy to be on the show.

And they say, okay, we're going to interview you through Zoom to see if you're good enough to be on the show.

And it's like, wait, but you reached out to me.

And so essentially, I think they just want to know that you can handle the pressure of being on stage.

And fortunately, I was able to pass that.

And then they said, we think it'd be really cool if you invited, because I lived in LA for a year and a half, like all the people that you've met there to be in the audience.

You want to fill the audience with people that you've met through your project.

And so I messaged everyone that I had met in LA, literally went through every post from LA and sent them individual messages with the link to tickets.

And a bunch of people showed up, which is awesome.

It definitely helped put me at ease.

Yes.

But it also scared me a little bit because then I was on the show with Joe Coy and Jane Lynch.

And they said, we're going to have them go in the audience and they're going to point to people and you're going to tell us what you've learned, like what you remember.

And some of these people I hadn't seen in a year or two, and I only met them one time for an hour.

And my project doesn't really get criticized, but when it does, some people are like, oh, it's quality over quantity.

I don't need that many friends.

And in my mind is like, okay, it's perspective.

Like you want more perspective on life, and you can meet someone once and not see them again, but you might remember something they told you for the rest of your life.

Or you might meet someone and then you don't remember them afterwards, but in that moment you were totally present with them and you enjoyed that time that you spent with them.

So it's just the way that I look at connection, but yeah, that was scary.

And then they put me in, like they had like the black car SUV pick me up at the hotel and it takes you to the studio, which was like a few minutes down the road.

And they put me in my little green room.

And you beforehand send them like outfit options that you would consider wearing.

They basically tell you which one to wear.

And then you do like the hair and makeup and stuff.

But I had to be at the green room at 9 a.m.

And I didn't go on for my spot on the show until noon.

So I sat with that anxiety for three hours and one of the producers came in and basically went through some of the questions that she might possibly ask with me.

So we could kind of practice, which all went out the window when I was actually on the show because she just asked whatever she wanted to ask.

But yeah, it was a neat experience.

It was very, I still think about it.

Like even if today they asked to have me on the show, I'd be terrified.

And it's the same with speaking.

I get very nervous when I go up on stage, even though I've done it many times.

So I'm still in the process of finding my like having that strong grounded confidence.

I'm in a space where I do it because I know it's necessary.

But yeah, it was a nerve-racking experience, but also one of the most memorable things that I've done through my project and the impact that that segment has had on helping me open the door, get a foot in the door for different organizations has been huge.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's so cool.

I was looking at the ability to include that in your media whenever people go on like, who is Rob?

And they see you and you're hanging out.

And you did quite well in the segment where it's, yeah, who's the stranger?

Right.

You did it.

And I think it gives you a lot of credibility.

Of course, it's a big platform and all that jazz.

But the fact that you showed up and did it, it's definitely I watch you do that.

I'm like, oh, it would be cool to do something like that one day.

Yeah.

And so that's inspiring to me.

And it's thinking about like how to get there and what exactly.

Because you have a good platform, right?

It's an understandable platform.

And whenever I started the Talk to People Podcast, it was, I did have sort of a vision or a want to go and get it somehow positioned in media, like with press.

But then I had to stop myself to be like, well, I'm just going to do the thing.

And I don't really have, it's not as sound bitable as like 10K friends, right?

Like, so that is definitely something.

And it may not be Kelly Clarkson, but just being in that same area, because I love the nerves.

With public speaking too, it's like the 10 minute nerves, like as soon as you get, as soon as I get a microphone, I feel a lot better.

But in between then, I feel like, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's tough.

And that's that's cool.

I've I've always with my project have been.

Like, I just want to do it and let that stuff come to me because it will it will tell me how the market will tell me how interesting what I'm doing is.

And sometimes like I've had to be like, OK, you can't just sit back.

You have to reach out if you want to get your name out there and stuff.

But a lot of the stuff has has come to me.

But it's also like social media has totally changed from static posts into now reels and whatnot.

And so my project, like what a ton of people once saw, is now kind of like buried into its own little corner of the Internet.

But and like, so me being like, I still have 3500 people to be I have to get my name out.

So I'm like, OK, I have to post reels to help people what I'm up to, to make sure people can be part of this.

But yeah, that's that's like an interesting game, too, because I've always been of the opinion to sit back.

But then there's also the side that if you think what you're doing is valuable, why not share it with the world and let other people see it and and encourage people to go out there and make friends?

Exactly.

We know it's going to help them.

Yeah.

Whenever you're meeting with people, what's your roles with?

Are you like no phones allowed?

Like, how do you navigate?

Because I feel like digital interruptions is a big deal that dampens conversations.

Yeah.

I put my phone away unless I'm trying to show people something.

Typically, they have theirs away too.

But there's really no rules.

I'm super laid back about it.

There was one guy that I met who is a street artist in Philly.

So he was like, I'm going to be spray painting this parking garage.

I have to do this, no parking sign.

While you're talking to him?

Yeah.

He's like, you can hang out with me while I do this.

But my original vision for the project was like, I'll spend an hour doing with people what makes them interesting.

Yes.

If you're into photography, we'll go shoot photos together.

If you're cooking, maybe we'll cook a meal together.

Then it just never got there, just settled into coffee and parks and stuff.

Which was nice because I was able to focus my full attention on that person rather than the activity we did together.

There were times like I've gone surfing with people, I'm going for a run with someone tomorrow for an hour.

I played on someone's softball team.

So yeah, so the phone's not like, I mean, I've had some times where people like have ignored me and pulled out their phone during a meeting.

Like we're shooting off texts to people as if I wasn't there.

And I was like, oh, it's just interesting.

Noted, like I, again, they don't owe me anything.

So it's not like they have to be there.

And if they need to text someone or whatever, they can totally do that.

But yeah, I like not how I would do it, but yeah, it doesn't really bother me in any way.

I try like, I'm such a go with the flow.

Like there's the reason there's no structure to my meetings with people is because we're just there to spend the time together.

And so when I do Zooms with parents, they're like, oh, my kid might pop in.

Like that's life, right?

That's part of who you are as a person.

So if your kid pops in and you need to take a second to chat with them or if your cat walks across the screen, it's totally fine.

So yeah, it's just a very laid back approach to it.

I used to have this line that was like, hey, you know, the presence of your phone signals to me, your attention is divided.

But I think that I definitely go back and forth.

I do think I try, like you said, ditch the phone if possible.

That way we can really lock in and get people where they're at.

Yeah, I think it's different too with a podcast.

Like, you're trying to film, and I record an episode of something that you're trying to produce and put out there for people.

Whereas with my, like, I don't know, there's like that slight difference there.

Like, if I was recording a podcast, I'd be like, hey, put your phone away.

Right, and with your project, it is connecting in the mundane, right?

It doesn't have to be special.

Right.

And that is the, that's like such a good message.

I think that people often, when we think about loneliness, when we think about connection, we often think we need to do something big, but if we can figure out how to get connected in the mundane and the really simple things, I think, I think we can really get something going.

Yeah.

And I think that's what I'm, one of the things I've learned is, I feel like there's this bell curve, right?

Like think about social media, for example, what you see on your Explore page, where it gets all the likes and shares and stuff, is either extreme good or extreme bad.

It's never like, hey, you mowed your lawn and looked pretty good today, and you felt okay about it.

Or like, hey, you and your wife had like a nice night watching a movie together.

Yeah.

And I don't like that because people are mistaking the extremes for the middle and the reality.

And then I think that's where comparison culture comes in with, well, everything I see on social media is this, I don't have everything I see is this.

And it's like, because this normal mundane stuff is not being shown because it's not sensational and people aren't going to interact with that.

But the majority of our lives are just wholesome and content.

Like people just want to do something that they care about.

They want to feel like they're having an impact.

They want to be accepted by their friends and family.

They want to have the flexibility to spend their time in a way that they want.

And they don't have to be driving a Lamborghini to do that.

So I wish more people knew how valuable and how normal the mundane was.

Because then once you know that, you realize like you're not missing out on stuff if you have a good relationship with your friends and your family, if you have like three hobbies that you think are interesting to you.

And then you start reaching for what you don't have and you start diving deeper in what you do have.

All right, are you wrapping it up after 10,000?

I think the goal like, I'll put a nice bow on that.

A lot of people are like, oh, you got to go to 20,000 next.

And I'm like, no, I don't think I will.

I would like to continue meeting people on a daily basis.

Like, I think from there, I think my purpose in life, as I feel like I've gained more clarity on over the years, is to infuse more empathy into the world.

And I'm able to do that one-on-one through my interactions.

And then I'm able to do it one to many in terms of speaking.

Maybe there's like a book someday, but I think it'd be cool to teach a course at a university where students pair off one-on-one every class period and learn from each other's backgrounds rather than a textbook or a PowerPoint slide.

So it's like, if I can drop to meeting one person a day instead of four people a day, and then I can also teach a class and facilitate this many connections each semester, that I think is a worthwhile trade-off.

So I don't think I'll stop connecting with people because it's one of my favorite ways to spend my time.

And I think it's one of the most novel experiences that we have available to us.

But I think I'll drop from four people a day.

And I won't set another huge goal because I'll want the freedom and flexibility to do other connection related things.

And you won't feel as much pressure to document at all.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wanted to ask you your passion for connection.

What can you trace that back to?

Originally, or not originally, well, I guess sort of originally in elementary school, like recess, I always taught people's ears off.

So I do think out of the box, like genetically, I have a bit of more predisposition towards being curious about people.

Tenth grade, I started going to church, and faith and Christianity inspired me a ton because a big tenet there is that people are created in the image of God and that they're built as masterpieces.

Therefore, we all have value.

And just getting like this idea of encouragement and steadfastness and hope, that anchored into me in like tenth grade.

So that really changed my perspective of the world, made me a lot more hopeful and optimistic.

And then Humans New York was huge for me, stumbling upon that project.

Like you remember the video series on Facebook?

Yeah.

Seeing the quality and production that went into capturing just people.

And I loved the fact that he'd have a picture of someone and you'd see the paragraph and it looked way different than...

You know, you would have never expected the big burly man to be talking about how he struggles with dyslexia, you know, like whatever that looked like.

And undergraduate, I learned about communication as a major.

I taught public speaking at Wake Forest and graduate school, and I got to see how people would be really nervous and robotic.

And then week 16, they would feel more comfortable and confident.

And you actually got to see their personality.

And people liked them more.

People liked their speaking more, just because their personality butted through, rather than they're like actually technically good.

And that revealed to me like, wow, how important and powerful it is to focus on the act of communication and skill of communication, because it helps people articulate their thought.

And then in the corporate life, I traveled for two years, and I lived in a hotel, and the people were successful, young, attractive, but all of them were lonely.

And I got really lonely in the hotel room, and I found myself going to like quick dopamine hits that weren't actually constructive.

So whenever we, whenever I pulled the parachute and left the corporate job, I was like, okay.

And then you see the loneliness epidemic, the friendship recession, all that jazz.

I'm like, all right, I wanna make sure I'm good, I'm connected, but I also believe there's a need that I could fit.

And I can fill by creating content that educates people on connection, but also captures connection.

So the podcast, and then I built the Capture connection studios, which is kind of like the entrepreneurship side.

And then now I'm like, talking with you, like you got 60 million people under your belt, conversations.

So I'm just so impressed and inspired.

So it's an interesting journey.

I don't know where it's going.

When did you leave the corporate world?

2022, I left, and I was doing like healthcare IT, working with the Department of Defense.

So they would have me at remote, the base where one of three bases in the world where there's intercontinental ballistic missiles, like a nuke could pop out in the mountains in Montana during COVID.

Cool, because I got to wear the badge and fly first class, all that jazz.

Not cool, because it was very lonely.

Yeah.

But where did you do your undergrad at, and what did you study?

Central Oklahoma, and I studied communication and Leadership, and then North Carolina, Wake Forest for graduate school.

I was excited to go to grad school because they were like, we're going to pay you.

And nobody in my family had gone to grad school.

So the only reason I went to grad school was to raise the standard of education for my nieces and nephews, because I didn't know of anybody in the master's program growing up.

Now they do.

The pressure is on.

Yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Did you graduate 2018 from undergrad?

Twenty nine or 2017 from undergrad, 2019 from grad school.

OK, gotcha.

Yeah.

Nice.

Hey, this is your science, your ability to navigate conversation and ask questions.

Now, for those who are interested in your project, they can go to Rob's 10K friends on Instagram, right?

Yep.

Yeah, I like the I like the content.

I like the approach.

That's what I'm going to I aspire to do.

I'm going to end the recording.

Yeah.

And then we'll stick around while it uploads.

Cool.

OK.

Well, thanks for being on, Rob.